No surprises with the top two...Marie France and Patrice were beautiful, if not perfect, and Tessa and Scott were better than ever; Tracy Wilson suggested it was the best she has ever seen them! As for the bronze...wow! When has such movement happened in Canadian ice dance! Although I am disappointed for Chantal and Arseni, I was amazed by Kaitlin Weaver and Andrew Poje--and they have only been together for 5 months! The future of ice dance looks great for Canada!
Free Dance
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Quite the afternoon and congratulations to Weaver and Poje!! Wow...What a future they've got!! Going to be fun watching them develop. 
Yes, no big surprise in the top two, but I have a feeling this will be the final year that Marie-France and Patrice have a comfortable time of it at Cdns. Tessa and Scott are nipping at their heels and in some places have actually surpassed them.
Worlds will be very interesting.
As for the future of Cdn Ice Dancing...The last two years when I got home from Cdns, I was asked about what I thought about skating in Canada. First sentence both times was, "Canada is scary deep in Ice Dancing right now." Isn't it great!?!
Yes, no big surprise in the top two, but I have a feeling this will be the final year that Marie-France and Patrice have a comfortable time of it at Cdns. Tessa and Scott are nipping at their heels and in some places have actually surpassed them.
Worlds will be very interesting.
As for the future of Cdn Ice Dancing...The last two years when I got home from Cdns, I was asked about what I thought about skating in Canada. First sentence both times was, "Canada is scary deep in Ice Dancing right now." Isn't it great!?!
Well-deserved third place for the very new Weaver and Poje. Wouldn't it be great if there was a real rivalry between V/M and W/P in the next few years? Push both teams.
Not that V/M need it. Absolutely stunning. They have the best twizzles in the world. Their program is breathtaking. I think this team should be top 6 at Worlds, but they will not, of course, acheive that with ice dance being what it is.
Dubreuil and Lauzon just continue to impress. They need to practice, practice, practice those twizzles. It is always their weakest element. Speed and power second to none. Totally express the mood of their music, you forget you're watching elements. I notices they had changed their final lift...I liked it better before, but I guess they're going for higher levels and more points. I appreciated the added footwork in the final section of the program and thought it looked very good and really brought the whole program up a notch. Excellent.
Not that V/M need it. Absolutely stunning. They have the best twizzles in the world. Their program is breathtaking. I think this team should be top 6 at Worlds, but they will not, of course, acheive that with ice dance being what it is.
Dubreuil and Lauzon just continue to impress. They need to practice, practice, practice those twizzles. It is always their weakest element. Speed and power second to none. Totally express the mood of their music, you forget you're watching elements. I notices they had changed their final lift...I liked it better before, but I guess they're going for higher levels and more points. I appreciated the added footwork in the final section of the program and thought it looked very good and really brought the whole program up a notch. Excellent.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2007
I am by no means an expert on ice dance. Can someone who is explain why D/L scored so much higher than V/M on the free dance? From what I saw V/M were better but I still havn't figured out copletly how ice dance is scored.
I think both teams were overscored. Call it the Nationals Inflation Factor.
Actually, D/L did not skate particularly well at all. It has been reported that she is suffering from a virus, and that may be the reason why three of their elements (the Midline Step Sequence, the second Rotational lift and the final combination lift) were all downgraded, the first two from level4 to level2, since the GPF.
Yet D/L scored 5 points higher than they did at the GPF. Almost all of that was because of getting extremely high GOE and astronomical PCS scores. Compare the scores D/L got for their FD at Nationals this year to the scores the OGM winners Navka/Kostomarov got at Torino:
8.58 8.58 8.79 8.88 9.00 D/L PCS, '07 Nats
8.25 8.11 8.36 8.32 8.46 N/K PCS '06 Olympics
V/M are excellent skaters, and I am sure they skated extremely well at Nationals, but there is no reason for them to be scored 6 points higher than their (IMO overscored) Skate Canada FD, and 11 points higher than their TEB FD. They will never get those sky-high PCS scores from ISU judges at Worlds.
Inflated Nationals scores are par for the course. The 3rd place dance team, Weaver/Poje, got a 16-point increase in the FD score for their Nationals FD compared to their JGP score in the Czech Republic: 67.8 in CZE and 83.73 at Nationals.
Don't get me wrong: ALL federations inflate Nationals scores. The Russians did for their Nationals, and this week we will see the same from US Nationals.
The mistake people make is to think their home team has improved THAT much and that this same result (or even better) is what they're going to get at Worlds.
Actually, D/L did not skate particularly well at all. It has been reported that she is suffering from a virus, and that may be the reason why three of their elements (the Midline Step Sequence, the second Rotational lift and the final combination lift) were all downgraded, the first two from level4 to level2, since the GPF.
Yet D/L scored 5 points higher than they did at the GPF. Almost all of that was because of getting extremely high GOE and astronomical PCS scores. Compare the scores D/L got for their FD at Nationals this year to the scores the OGM winners Navka/Kostomarov got at Torino:
8.58 8.58 8.79 8.88 9.00 D/L PCS, '07 Nats
8.25 8.11 8.36 8.32 8.46 N/K PCS '06 Olympics
V/M are excellent skaters, and I am sure they skated extremely well at Nationals, but there is no reason for them to be scored 6 points higher than their (IMO overscored) Skate Canada FD, and 11 points higher than their TEB FD. They will never get those sky-high PCS scores from ISU judges at Worlds.
Inflated Nationals scores are par for the course. The 3rd place dance team, Weaver/Poje, got a 16-point increase in the FD score for their Nationals FD compared to their JGP score in the Czech Republic: 67.8 in CZE and 83.73 at Nationals.
Don't get me wrong: ALL federations inflate Nationals scores. The Russians did for their Nationals, and this week we will see the same from US Nationals.
The mistake people make is to think their home team has improved THAT much and that this same result (or even better) is what they're going to get at Worlds.
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V/M' s free dance was outstanding; I'm not surprised they scored as high as they did.
As for D/L...not only is it reported that she has been suffering from a virus, but also from an injury that she stated she would not comment on until after the free dance. Any word on it?
As for D/L...not only is it reported that she has been suffering from a virus, but also from an injury that she stated she would not comment on until after the free dance. Any word on it?
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- Mar 28, 2005
I honestly dont know why the countries choose to have inflated scores at Nationals. I could understand when COP first came out, but by now it is clear it does influence interational judges in the slightest, and all it does is not allow skaters to get an accurate measure on their performance, what improvements they have succeeded in, where they still need to gain more points, etc....Maybe they see it as a farm of support and encouragement, maybe they feel it is a sign of not standing up for their skaters abilities if they dont inflate scores as much as other countries do especialy of key competitors of those skaters. I am not sure, but I dont believe it benefits the skaters, and in fact might benefit them more for judges at ones Nationals, especialy one of the major skating countries, to attempt to judge it like an international event.
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- Mar 28, 2005
I agree with you but I will say that Virtue/Moir do seem to be improving quickly, they certainly wont get those scores at Worlds though like you said, but I am pleased to see their development all the same.
The annoying thing is the commentators act as if they are legit scores and should be taken as absolutely true representation of an international score. They completely ignore the Nationals factor. So many times "wow that is a PB by 5-6 points in the short program" or things like that you hear. Maybe they are just trying to create inflated hope among the national skating fan to draw viewers though.
Exactly. The viewing audience sees those scores and if they have access to scores from international events, will get the impression that their skaters are bound to win/place high because they're so much better than all the others.
V/M's OD score, for example, was higher than ALL the OD scores in the GP with the exception of one D/L score and Denkova/Staviiski's scores. The unsophisticated viewer might then conclude that V/M are a shoo-in for a World medal, since they've "beaten" all the top teams, including the two top Russian teams, the two top US teams, the top French team, and even their own teammates.
Their FD score likewise would have beaten at least one of each top team's FD score in the GP (except Denkova/Staviiski and D/L).
V/M's OD score, for example, was higher than ALL the OD scores in the GP with the exception of one D/L score and Denkova/Staviiski's scores. The unsophisticated viewer might then conclude that V/M are a shoo-in for a World medal, since they've "beaten" all the top teams, including the two top Russian teams, the two top US teams, the top French team, and even their own teammates.
Their FD score likewise would have beaten at least one of each top team's FD score in the GP (except Denkova/Staviiski and D/L).
Do you honestly think there are a lot of novice skating viewers out there watching Canadian nationals who are going to be led astray by the marking? Because basically I think it's all much ado about nothing. And kinda highjacking the thread.
What did you think of the actual performances? I thought it was a great and exciting night of ice dancing.
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- Mar 28, 2005
That is what I think as well. There are alot of skating fans who like to watch skating who arent the uber-fans that some of us might be.
Alot of them are probably being misled to think Moir/Virtue's score rank them as a likely medalist at Worlds since their scores here compare pretty favorably to what the French, U.S, and Russian teams were getting in the GP like you pointed out, and even pretty competitive with Dubreuil/Lauzon's GP event scores. That can lead to alot of dissapointed viewers who were now expecting 2 medals when in reality a top 10 finish for Moir/Virtue this year would be a terrific showing, and even a top 12 would be very good. Also the scores of Dubreuil/Lauzon at Canadians will probably lead alot of casual skating fans to think they are now heavily favored to dethrone the Bulgarians when in reality they have only an outside shot of that, and were dusted by the Bulgarians at the GP final.It was a fantastic competition. V&M were my personal favorite, they were breathtaking
weren't they though! In the above posted article, Marie France mentions that they don't feel any pressure to compete at nationals. They see it as a stepping-stone to worlds. That may be true now, but I agree with others who have said that this may not be the case next year. V & M are already beating them on some component scores. I don't think they'll be able to take their title for granted for much longer.
That is what I think as well. There are alot of skating fans who like to watch skating who arent the uber-fans that some of us might be.
ITA with you... even at the national championship their scores are lower then the ones of the bulgarians...
Dubreuil said that she was ill,feeling dizzy ect ect... but everytime they don't receive the scores they wish they make up excuses like at the GPF(too much pressure,ect ect) and now here...well i don't like that
However, congratulations to V/M ....they look like future champions
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- Nov 7, 2006
wow well Dubriel and Lauzon their somewhere in time freeskate is absolutely gorgeous!
Wow the future of Canadian Dance is definately good, the only two teams to ever win World Medals in the last few years from Canada are Shae Lynn Bourne and Viktor Kraatz and Marie France-Dubriel and Patrice Lauzon so yeah that's pretty awesome for Canada.
Maybe Marie France-Dubriel and Patrice Lauzon will win the second world title for Canada.
Wow the future of Canadian Dance is definately good, the only two teams to ever win World Medals in the last few years from Canada are Shae Lynn Bourne and Viktor Kraatz and Marie France-Dubriel and Patrice Lauzon so yeah that's pretty awesome for Canada.
Maybe Marie France-Dubriel and Patrice Lauzon will win the second world title for Canada.
Where are they beating them in component scores?
8.33 8.38 8.38 8.08 D/L CD
7.00 6.96 6.96 6.63 V/M CD
8.50 8.38 8.63 8.50 8.67 D/L OD
7.58 7.42 7.46 7.58 7.63 V/M OD
8.58 8.58 8.79 8.88 9.00 D/L FD
7.54 7.50 7.71 7.58 7.75 V/M FD
Not that either team is going to get these scores from ISU judges.
Here are their scores from their GPs:
7.95 7.95 8.05 7.60 D/L, Golden Waltz CD, SC
8.00 7.70 8.05 8.25 8.20 D/L, GPF OD
8.00 7.80 7.85 8.05 8.05 D/L, NHK OD
8.20 7.75 8.45 8.20 8.35 D/L, SC FD
8.15 8.05 8.05 8.15 8.20 D/L, NHK FD
8.05 7.85 8.05 8.25 8.30 D/L, GPF FD
6.25 5.85 6.15 6.10 V/M, Golden Waltz CD, SC
6.90 6.65 6.90 6.90 7.00 V/M, SC OD
7.00 6.65 7.05 7.05 7.30 V/M, SC FD
6.15 5.95 6.30 6.30 6.35 V/M, TEB FD
Interesting that their best FD scores were from SC, with the home ice boost. Note: D/L changed their OD after SC. I didn't include V/M's TEB OD score because they fell.
