Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron

[Gotlev]

The purpose of a newspaper is to say facts even if they are not glorious

Unfortunately for all of us, the purpose of a newspaper in 2017 is first of all to survive and sell, by whatever means, and second, to create public opinion according to the wishes of whatever players in the geo-political field that are willing to ensure point 1.
Giving us facts doesn't fit anywhere in this equation, to our all's detriment, obviously and sadly.

On a completely different note: I miss skating action. Cocotaffy is right, I'm an addict.

 

[MelDee]

On a completely different note: I miss skating action. Cocotaffy is right, I'm an addict.

Same here, it's a weekend without skating and I don't know what to do with myself. Fortunately the biathlon season has already started, so I have something to fangirl about!

 

[alain06fr]

Unfortunately for all of us, the purpose of a newspaper in 2017 is first of all to survive and sell, by whatever means, and second, to create public opinion according to the wishes of whatever players in the geo-political field that are willing to ensure point 1.
Giving us facts doesn't fit anywhere in this equation, to our all's detriment, obviously and sadly.

On a completely different note: I miss skating action. Cocotaffy is right, I'm an addict.

The press is not perfect for sure but, as Maya1985 pointed out, facts reported in this short article are true and that's really annoying, to not say terrible.
I saw (and I guess I was not the only one) all these nasty (to be polite) messages posted on David Molina's twitter account during the NHK Grand-Prix. He actually got a tonne (really a tonne!) of "messages" like that. Of course, he didn't care and the authors of such "comments" had no chance to influence him anyway but still...

To me (and this is just my personal opinion), thousands of people threatening David Molina via twitter in such a short timeframe can't be a pure coincidence. This massive twitter bashing campaign can't be spontaneous, especially in an olympic season.

As for the earrings case, the article just sticks to the ISU communiqué so...

 

[alain06fr]

an article on certain behaviors, which gives a very negative image of ice dance http://www.leparisien.fr/sports/JO/pyeongchang-2018/patinage-artistique-les-scandales-se-multiplient-a-quelques-semaines-des-jo-01-12-2017-7425825.php

the article talks about threatening messages sent on twitter to Molina (and also the earrings). It's truly sad . (I make clear: Skaters have nothing to do with these behaviors of some fans)

For those who did not read it til the end, just have a look to the very last sentence of this article (obviously the "French judge" is David Molina):

"Dans ce contexte, les fans du couple canadien ont perdu leurs nerfs et ont visé le juge tricolore qui supervisera les notes des juges à Pyeongchang"
"In this context, fans of the Canadian couple lost their nerves and targeted the French judge who will supervise the judges' scores in Pyeongchang"

Two comments:
1. I understood that the ISU already appointed the judges for the Olympics and this last very sentence tends to confirm it.
2. I guess most of the people participating to this massive bashing campaign against David Molina were targeting the Olympics and not the NHK

 

[VikiLeeks]

"In this context, fans of the Canadian couple lost their nerves and targeted the French judge who will supervise the judges' scores in Pyeongchang"

Newspapers sometimes make mistakes. Maybe they meant NHK where Mr. Molina was a technical controller.
There were no Americans or Canadians in the ice dance technical panel in Sochi. And it would have been quite strange. ISU judges are people with their preferences, they also may be patriotis just like all of us.
Besides, I did not find information about the judging in Pyeongchang anywhere else, so it does not seem very credible to me right now.

 

[maya1985]

For those who did not read it til the end, just have a look to the very last sentence of this article (obviously the "French judge" is David Molina):

"Dans ce contexte, les fans du couple canadien ont perdu leurs nerfs et ont visé le juge tricolore qui supervisera les notes des juges à Pyeongchang"
"In this context, fans of the Canadian couple lost their nerves and targeted the French judge who will supervise the judges' scores in Pyeongchang"


1. I understood that the ISU already appointed the judges for the Olympics and this last very sentence tends to confirm it.

The ISU has already named the countries that will have a judge at the Olympics (the draw was made in September). France will have one in dance. Molina is likely to be the French judge (or Christine Hurth)... for me
  but this sentence "le juge tricolore qui supervisera les notes des juges à Pyeongchang": Molina could be the referree. (I understood it like that)
After there may be some approximations in the article.

 

[alain06fr]

Newspapers sometimes make mistakes. Maybe they meant NHK where Mr. Molina was a technical controller.
There were no Americans or Canadians in the ice dance technical panel in Sochi. And it would have been quite strange. ISU judges are people with their preferences, they also may be patriotis just like all of us.
Besides, I did not find information about the judging in Pyeongchang anywhere else, so it does not seem very credible to me right now.

Yeah, that could be. I noticed this last sentence and, given I understood judges were already appointed and to be precise I was talking about the technical panel and the referee (not the scoring judges)

 

[Axela00]

Do you think that they shouldn’t have broken the record so early on? Now the standard is really high .i’m wondering if the other teams are saving some stuff for the major competitions

 

[cocotaffy]

Do you think that they shouldn’t have broken the record so early on? Now the standard is really high .i wonder if the other teams are saving some stuff for the major competitions

No, I think they needed to start the season with a boom, it was the only way to set themselves up against V/M after their last year lackluster of a season. It's a mental game and whoever comes on top does have the upper hand. Look at last year, V/M came out like a fury with their SD and there was no coming back all season, they kept being ahead setting records and being so solid (well up until the FD at Worlds but their SD was still rock solid). Sure, the standard is high but if they could live up to it once at IDF after CoC they can do it again. They have only 2 major competitions till the olympics ( I don't count French Nationals, it's their playground): GPF and Euros. So tactically, they need to solidify and keep improving inch by inch their SD while owning more and more their FD like they used to with their Mozart, feeling so comfortable performing it.
Of course, all the hype around their records and FD might be seen as a burden but it looks like they are more at ease with being seen as the favorites than the underdogs, again referring to last year. I actually remember Scott saying he prefers chasing than be chased whereas Tessa was the opposite. So Scott might be quite happy by the situation right now. Honestly, it's too much of a nailbiter for me. I know people keep saying it's much more interesting when the race is so close, but as a fan, I don't agree at all. I'd rather be already sure that P/C will win Olympic gold tbh. That way, I could simply sit back and enjoy the whole season without fear of developing an ulcer

 

[icetigger]

Do you think that they shouldn’t have broken the record so early on? Now the standard is really high .i wonder if the other teams are saving some stuff for the major competitions

No, absolutely not- Ice Dance is the discipline where previous results most influence current results. My advice to them for this season would have been go in high and hard from a competitive angle. They were also the youngest skaters in the top ten at Worlds. Despite the sense from threads on here that team x might be them, if that team is four years older a piece, the type of improvement that would be needed would be great but also less likely at an older age, when the fundamentals of who you are and what you can achieve become set. If they establish themselves as the highest scoring team but are also the most likely to improve through the season early on, they are setting themselves up for the best season they could possibly have. Accordingly, i don't think any of the older teams would be holding anything back; direct defeat in one competition or indirect defeat via score comparison across competitions of a team with 4 to 8 years more practice at competition at ice dance would become a final verdict on P/C simply being the better skaters. If P/C lose by comparison, their not having the experience or level practice still gives them a competitive out.

That said, although there is a lot of comment elsewhere that the direct comparison between the different teams at Gpf might narrow the gap between them, it might also widen it. Plus, although I don't think G and G have been holding anything back in competition, they do develop their programmes more through the season than anyone; and are also more likely to develop as skaters, so there could be improvement from that too. There was much change between Finlandia and CoC on both sd and FD; and only a few little changes to the sd at IDF. With a three week break between IDF and GPF (the same as between Finlandia and COC) we might see a similar overhaul; plus G and G are very good at introducing new choreographic movement and transitions during a season and introducing it at the quality of material that already forms their programme.

The standard they have set might be high, but the standard they are about to set could well be higher.......

 

[Axela00]

No, I think they needed to start the season with a boom, it was the only way to set themselves up against V/M after their last year lackluster of a season. It's a mental game and whoever comes on top does have the upper hand. Look at last year, V/M came out like a fury with their SD and there was no coming back all season, they kept being ahead setting records and being so solid (well up until the FD at Worlds but their SD was still rock solid). Sure, the standard is high but if they could live up to it once at IDF after CoC they can do it again. They have only 2 major competitions till the olympics ( I don't count French Nationals, it's their playground): GPF and Euros. So tactically, they need to solidify and keep improving inch by inch their SD while owning more and more their FD like they used to with their Mozart, feeling so comfortable performing it.
Of course, all the hype around their records and FD might be seen as a burden but it looks like they are more at ease with being seen as the favorites than the underdogs, again referring to last year. I actually remember Scott saying he prefers chasing than be chased whereas Tessa was the opposite. So Scott might be quite happy by the situation right now. Honestly, it's too much of a nailbiter for me. I know people keep saying it's much more interesting when the race is so close, but as a fan, I don't agree at all. I'd rather be already sure that P/C will win Olympic gold tbh. That way, I could simply sit back and enjoy the whole season without fear of developing an ulcer

D’accord. I feel the same way

 

[alain06fr]

Do you think that they shouldn’t have broken the record so early on? Now the standard is really high .i’m wondering if the other teams are saving some stuff for the major competitions

Regarding Gabriella and Guillaume, I can't see them competing while saying "let's save some stuff for the GPF or OG".
We have seen how well almost all teams were prepared so early this season. In Grenoble, the tension was quite obvious and one could really feel that P/C goal was to push the limit once again. BTW, all other couples in Grenoble were very involved in the competition. I can't really say but I am not sure W/P would have participated to the FD (after Andrew got injured) in a non Olympic year.

The fact that P/C broke 2 times, at their 2 Grand-Prix and within 2 weeks, both FD and overall FD+SD WRs is not a minor story at all. These results affected some people, that's for sure...

Furthermore, I guess the ice dance world will be more focused on the GPF podium rather than WRs (just my opinion of course). Obviously, if WRs are beaten once again in Nagoya, 3 weeks after the French Grand-Prix, that would be tremendous.

 

[maya1985]

Gabi and Guillaume start the season better than the Canadians ... I think it was very important.
The important thing next week-end is the victory ... the record would be "la cerise sur le gâteau" (if they beat V/M, it would be stronger than a new record). It's their only confrontation before the games. The short dance scares me: they will skate right after V/M, I'm not sure that Gabi and Guillaume will be in the lead after this event, but the gap must be small

I wish them the best ... I start to stress (it's completely stupid ... I think the only competition I do not stress is the French championships)

 

[icetigger]

Gabi and Guillaume start the season better than the Canadians ... I think it was very important.
The important thing next week-end is the victory ... the record would be "la cerise sur le gâteau" (if they beat V/M, it would be stronger than a new record). It's their only confrontation before the games. The short dance scares me: they will skate right after V/M, I'm not sure that Gabi and Guillaume will be in the lead after this event, but the gap must be small

I wish them the best ... I start to stress (it's completely stupid ... I think the only competition I do not stress is the French championships)

I'm not sure they will be skating directly after V/M- is the groupings/order decided upon grand prix qualification or isu world standings. If it's based on ISU world standings, V/M are fifth and will be in the first group, whereas P/C will be in the second.

here is last year's order- C/B, V/M, P/C, B/S, S/S, H/D

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpf1617/SEG007.HTM

And here's the current world standings

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsdance.htm

 

[maya1985]

I'm not sure they will be skating directly after V/M- is the groupings/order decided upon grand prix qualification or isu world standings. If it's based on ISU world standings, V/M are fifth and will be in the first group, whereas P/C will be in the second.

here is last year's order- C/B, V/M, P/C, B/S, S/S, H/D

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpf1617/SEG007.HTM

And here's the current world standings

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsdance.htm

the groupings/order is decided upon grand prix qualification: C/L; H/D; C/B; S/S; V/M; P/C
"Skaters/Couples will start the Short Program/Short Dance in reverse order of the ranking order in which they have qualified for the Final." http://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2017-18-6/gp-6/announcements-52/15012-gpjgpfinal-2017-18-announcement-final/file p 4

 

[Lily flowers]

I'm not sure they will be skating directly after V/M- is the groupings/order decided upon grand prix qualification or isu world standings. If it's based on ISU world standings, V/M are fifth and will be in the first group, whereas P/C will be in the second.

here is last year's order- C/B, V/M, P/C, B/S, S/S, H/D

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpf1617/SEG007.HTM

And here's the current world standings

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsdance.htm

Wait, they skate in two groups in GPF? I thought there’s only one warm-up as there’s only 6 teams, or is that just in singles?

 

[icetigger]

the groupings/order is decided upon grand prix qualification: C/L; H/D; C/B; S/S; V/M; P/C
"Skaters/Couples will start the Short Program/Short Dance in reverse order of the ranking order in which they have qualified for the Final." http://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2017-18-6/gp-6/announcements-52/15012-gpjgpfinal-2017-18-announcement-final/file p 4

Thanks Maya! I was looking for that document to double check and it would have taken me ages.........

 

[alain06fr]

I'm not sure they will be skating directly after V/M- is the groupings/order decided upon grand prix qualification or isu world standings. If it's based on ISU world standings, V/M are fifth and will be in the first group, whereas P/C will be in the second.

here is last year's order- C/B, V/M, P/C, B/S, S/S, H/D

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpf1617/SEG007.HTM

Yes, you're ight

And here's the current world standings

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsdance.htm

Yes, you're right. The official ISU rule states the following:

6.2 Starting order In each individual ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating event the participating Skaters will be listed according to their ISU World Standing placement at the time of the event. The starting order in the Short Program/Short Dance segment will be the reverse order of the ISU World Standing placements. In the case of any tie, there will be a draw to determine who skates first.


The current ISU World Starting placements are:
1. P/C 2. B/S --> not at GPF. 3. C/L. 4. C/B. 5. V/M. 6. H/D. 7. S/S

So the starting oder is:

Group no.1:
1. S/S
2. H/D
3. V/M

Group no.2:
4. C/B
5. C/L
6. P/C

 

[maya1985]

Yes, you're right. The official ISU rule states the following:

6.2 Starting order In each individual ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating event the participating Skaters will be listed according to their ISU World Standing placement at the time of the event. The starting order in the Short Program/Short Dance segment will be the reverse order of the ISU World Standing placements. In the case of any tie, there will be a draw to determine who skates first.


The current ISU World Starting placements are:
1. P/C 2. B/S --> not at GPF. 3. C/L. 4. C/B. 5. V/M. 6. H/D. 7. S/S

So the starting oder is:

Group no.1:
1. S/S
2. H/D
3. V/M

Group no.2:
4. C/B
5. C/L
6. P/C

I prefer your document and your starting order but this document says the opposite (rule for the final grand prix) http://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2017-18-6/gp-6/announcements-52/15012-gpjgpfinal-2017-18-announcement-final/file
"Skaters/Couples will start the Short Program/Short Dance in reverse order of the ranking order in which they
have qualified for the Final. In the case of a tie, there will be a draw to determine who skates first".

so I do not know anymore it does not matter

 

[icetigger]

I prefer your document and your starting order but this document says the opposite (rule for the final grand prix) http://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2017-18-6/gp-6/announcements-52/15012-gpjgpfinal-2017-18-announcement-final/file
"Skaters/Couples will start the Short Program/Short Dance in reverse order of the ranking order in which they
have qualified for the Final. In the case of a tie, there will be a draw to determine who skates first".

so I do not know anymore it does not matter

Alain, do you have the link for your document? I think that Maya is right and it might be a rule change for this year......

For the record, i would much prefer Alain's order...... but in the end of the day I'm sure P/C will bring it.....

I also really want them to skate last in the free.......after V/M, S/S or H/D as the other two couples in the group- just because MS will be a real contrast.