- Joined
- Oct 26, 2016
Huh ... I'll risk sounding stupid ... where?
Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron
- Thread starter breathesgelatin
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2016
:agree:
It is simply exquisite. Their twizzles there and in to Build A Home are probably the best for me. But as soon as I pick these two and write them down, I tend to look at the other dances and I cannot decide once again.
Indeed it was hard to choose between those two.
90% of the teams use the twizzles has the highlights of the program. P/C always have subtle twizzles not "in your face" twizzles but i'm speechless watching them.
Same for the ending, gabriella and guillaume have slow and subtle ending, they don't need crescendo ending to have standing ovation.
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
Yes lovely arm movements from Guillaume in the last twizzle. They keep adding. Funny anecdote, when I watch this clip https://www.instagram.com/p/BgicxO0FcUF/?tagged=papadakiscizeron I thought it had been accelerated on purpose because I couldn't believe the speed with which they skated. Then I realized it was the first time a video captured the exact angle from which the judges are watching them. From a higher position it looks like their speed is slowed down.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2017
Of course she is not sad, I have no doubts about that.
I didn't realize that thinking about the ways of future development of P/C requires from their coach and choreographer such tremendous sacrifice and effort as leaving preparation of all her other couples.Sorry, my mistake. In any case, I agree with opinion that P/C have outgrown her. I think they need someone else to be pushed further to develop their talents.
And who will push them further, pray tell? Marina, whose loyalties lie with the Shibs (their parents own the rink she coaches at, don't they?)? Igor? His teams seem weaker and weaker with each year. Zhulin? Morozov???
I don't really get all those praises for Christopher Dean either. Yes, he used to be a brilliant, legendary skater and choreographer. Yes, the Ed Sheeran SD was really fun, and so was the Hitchcock program for Paul and Piper a few years ago. But he has been choreographing for Chock and Bates and lots of lesser-known teams for years and was that anything to write home about? Not really imho.
All of you guys have been singing praises about Moonlight Sonata (choreo by M-F in case you forgot) all season long and now suddenly she is sort of a villain here? Seriously?? It was her and her team that helped P/C move from the 13th place to the 1st WITHIN A YEAR. It was her who blew the world away with the Mozart and To Build a Home. Gadbois got a 1,2 and 4 places at the Olympics and are currently the best training spot in the world when it comes to ice dance. Leaving M-F alone with such talented teams like H/D (well, if Zach can get his s together), Soucisse/Firus etc. and going somewhere else would be a huge step back and mistake imo. Not to mention all the fresh blood that is bound to appear sooner or later and threaten P/C's winning streak.
And I do agree with M-F that both teams skated their best at the Olympics. V/M? Without any doubt. And Gaby and Guillaume increased their PB by 2.12 comparing to the Euros, if I can count correctly. They had a fantastic, record breaking FD and a Short that without their calm and composure and professionalism would otherwise be ruined. And M-F acknowledges that. Given what happened with the costume they managed beautifully.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2017
I didn't realize that thinking about the ways of future development of P/C requires from their coach and choreographer such tremendous sacrifice and effort as leaving preparation of all her other couples.
Yes, because saying what she's planning for them way before the season even ends, for all the skaters and coaches and the skating world to hear would be indeed very smart and prudent. Come on! I'm sure she has loads of plans and ideas but a) it has been a hell of a season and at the time when the interview was recorded G&G weren't even back to Montreal, and b) revealing such secrets on YouTube would be downright stupid. We always know next to nothing about their programs come the autumn, why this time should it be any different? She gave a diplomatic answer, that's it, I wouldn't read too much into it.
This is a common misunderstanding many people have but Christopher Dean had nothing to do with the Hitchcock program. That was choreographed by their coaches Carol Lane and Juris Razgulajevs. Dean erroneously gets credit for some of their more interesting original programs, he has worked with them but not on their programs that year.
She might also not know if they are staying with her next season.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2017
And going where exactly?
(Whatever happens, I hope it will be their own -smart or not, time will tell- decision, and not just Didier’s.)
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I'm not sure it would matter: they'd no doubt be taking their talent with them, and bringing in the people they want to work with from wherever. I'm also sure that Didier would support them in their vision. whether they remain at Gadbois or not.
If I were them, I'd be sitting down and discussing what they want to get out of the next four years after worlds and then looking at where they might be best supported to achieve that, which may be Gadbois or may not. They certainly shouldn't be looking at themselves as moving to or remaining at any particular school in order to become a product of that school.
What about Romain? They moved to Canada not to train with MFD but because of him. Is he planning to leave?
I agree that assigning blame to MFD is a bit puzzling, because there's a coaching team at Gadbois and although MFD has served as a sort of spokesperson, we don't know if she's the chief person in every aspect of training. For all we know Romain has been with them the most. Plus, P/C's conditioning this season has been top-notch. Their training must have been excellent if they are able to skate this well competition after competition.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2018
Although I’m sure she’s very exhausted after the tension of the Olympics and wouldn't expect any tactics at this point (choice of music or style) I too am really perplexed. If she were really involved in their development, shouldn’t she be all making us feel that yes, she’s has a vision and a roadmap for them for the next Olympic cycle, and that it will not only take them to gold but really stretch them as artists and skaters. Wouldn’t one expect her to already know what aspects of their talent they should be concentrating on and developing now, thinking about how best to disarm and silence the criticisms that have been developing around them - lack of athleticism, repetitiveness, lyrical romanticism, inability to skate a story, etc. Couldn’t this be conveyed somehow non verbally as well as verbally?
So I’m surprised but I also feel slightly let down. When PC first got to Montreal MFD had incredibly clairvoyant and long term plans for them including, in 2015, already having a good idea of the Olympic FD music. In her interviews she was totally committed to polishing this pair of rough diamonds. The whole support ecosystem (musical coaches, music analysis, mental coaches, etc.) was and has been fantastic for their development. Though to be fair it’s been a symbiotic relationship. Before PC there were no world champions. So at first PC & MFD started off with a win win relationship. And then gradually they became « also rans » or « also running ». There may well be well over a dozen couples (though not all outstanding I guess) in the portfolio that has to be « managed », but was the organization really capable of managing the handful of world class ones equitably? Were some "more equal than others »? Many main coaches sit alongside all their best couples in the k&c. Not in their case. How to interpret this? Rationalisation at work? (not enough time, we delegate here). Or symbolically (of course you’re important to us but…). Is it simplistic and over idealistic to assume that a teacher can push more than one star pupil in a class?
On top of this slight disappointment I also feel some anxiety. It’s like what is said about leadership as opposed to management. Inspiration rather than execution. I keep thinking about a radio programme I recently heard on the great Russian pianist Sviatoslav Richter getting kicked out of the Moscow Conservatoire several times but there was always this one teacher to defend him against the nomenklatura and get him reinstated because he was brilliant. Isn’t that what mentorship is about? So all these little micro signals (delegating, not being in the k&c, not properly mitigating the already identified costume risk) mean I am starting to lose my trust in her and am not sure that in 4 years time she’ll commit herself body and soul for PC to get the gold as she has done this time since Tessa and Scott’s return. Will she be able to resist the pressure of abandoning PC if ever some new couple suddenly pops up which has to be propelled…In my mind the seeds of doubt have been sown and now, with these latest remarks, are being watered.
If there’re going to be just « any old couple » in Montreal maybe they should indeed be looking for a new haven as Icetiger implies.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2016
Wow, Guys ... when I read all these posts, starting with Icetigger's yesterday I get the impression that it is less about MFD that about the fear that G/G are not going to "diversify".
I do remind everybody that these skaters are literally pouring their lives into this. They should be allowed to cultivate what motivates them. They have a long history of trust and training with Romain (that will not change) and Gadbois and MF have allowed them to develop their potential. She really "saw" them and gave them the framework to concentrate on just ice dance. They are still maturing as athletes and artists. I have no doubt, that G and G are very involved in what they do and they also have a "stubborn" streak (proof to me is the pressure that Didier tried to put on them to "improve" their choreography by adding V/M-types of lifts ... it was never said that way but I'm pretty sure the fake announcement that they were working on something mind-blowing was an attempt to influence them).
They are not going to make everybody happy and so what? If they are happy, so am I!
My guess for the coming seasons is that they are going to collaborate with a few people but that MF will still be part of the equation.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2017
When MFD says in the interview that the wardrobe malfunction only happened at the SD official performance, she is lying. It also happened in practice...
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
I was also surprised by her assertion because Guillaume mentioned in several instances this had happened before in practice hence them taking extra care to sew her in with stitches, press buttons ... It's still a head scratcher for me and even though what's done is done, I still wonder why, especially after the ordeal of the Korean ice dancer during the team event. How on earth didn't it scare any of them ? I would have said "you know this dress is great but this has happened in practice, now this ice dancer had to deal with an unfortunate malfunction, let's not take any risks and switch, at least the top of the dress". So many people in this team and no one raised strong objections ???? Don't know, such a shame. Anyway, let's hope they've learned their lesson, at great expense however. The only silver lining here is the extra motivation fuel it will inevitably give to Gaby and Guillaume for this coming quad.
As for the MFD interview, I don't read much into this. The most astonishing fact for me is how on earth did she accept giving an interview to David Lease. He's so much into gossiping and trouble making, I don't get why anyone would lose their time all the more so when being so exhausted. So I would take everything with a pinch of salt. She knows how the guy can twist things. What I get from it is she looked and sounded worn out. This season has not been kind culminating with the Spanish teams controversy about which she even said she considered quitting. I mean quitting when clearly Montreal is on top of the ice dance world is a strong statement.
Regarding P/C, what bothered me most was the very little information and willingness to talk about them. This could be her adapting to her audience: David Lease being a huge V/M's fan boy, the questions were more about MR than MS for instance. It could also be because Gaby and Guillaume might not like people talking on their behalf and being always quite discreet about their future plans programs wise. She might respect that too plus I guess she adapts to her audience, she would be talking to a francophone interviewer, it would be more about P/C.
It's true we can't reproach the team anything about the programs, P/C had a perfect set of programs and again beat V/M in the FD and probably would have in the SD too or at least be very close without the dress. They had a perfect preparation, we've never seen them so ready early on. The mental coach was very present and seemed to make a great deal of difference especially for Guillaume ( I noticed he was always very close to her, hugging her, holding her hand ...)
Coaching change. I don't see where they could go frankly. Montreal has top notch installations, perfect francophone surroundings making them feel at home. They built strong friendships within Gadbois and outside. They will be the big shot once more, now V/M have (hopefully, when are they gonna announced god damnit
) retired. Having started to fish outside help this season was not hindered it seems, so they can probably get their artistic growth by increasing outside influences. Romain is a key element though. If he's not happy there, then they would probably follow him but again where would Romain go. Going back to France, I don't see it. But here is a wild idea, he could team up with Barbara Fusar-Poli, now that would be something. I'd like to witness a European renaissance in ice dance taking back the North American leadership. John Kerr could join them too and Dean could pop in from time to time. There are some nice European teams with potential like this lovely Georgian junior team in smaller countries who might not have the financing to cross the ocean but would be happy to join a strong European training ground with Gaby and Guillaume leading the way. Ok wishful thinking I know, but how awesome would it be.
Anyway, Montreal has done wonders for P/C but MDF and Patch should never forget what P/C did for their center. Their meteoric rise propelled their center at the top of ice dance hierarchy. I hate complot theories so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubts to them regarding what went down those last two years. Mainly because Gaby and Guillaume have improved leaps and bounds proving the training was up to par with their extraordinary capacity for improvement and hard work even when one think they can't improve more. Now I too think they might have outgrown MDF's vision, I just hope Romain will guide them well and MDF will be able to step away a bit. She shouldn't change their vision like she did for Oddudua for instance. She insisted on adding a second softer part which was smart at the time because they were probably not ready to pull off a whole Oddudua FD. However, they definitely are now so if they want to go really experimental, please no more of that type of intervention to soften up their vision. I also think getting uncomfortable is essential to artists, if they're too at ease in that center they might not be pushed enough.
Sorry, I didn't think I had so much to say about all of this.
As for the MFD interview, I don't read much into this. The most astonishing fact for me is how on earth did she accept giving an interview to David Lease. He's so much into gossiping and trouble making, I don't get why anyone would lose their time all the more so when being so exhausted. So I would take everything with a pinch of salt. She knows how the guy can twist things. What I get from it is she looked and sounded worn out. This season has not been kind culminating with the Spanish teams controversy about which she even said she considered quitting. I mean quitting when clearly Montreal is on top of the ice dance world is a strong statement.
Regarding P/C, what bothered me most was the very little information and willingness to talk about them. This could be her adapting to her audience: David Lease being a huge V/M's fan boy, the questions were more about MR than MS for instance. It could also be because Gaby and Guillaume might not like people talking on their behalf and being always quite discreet about their future plans programs wise. She might respect that too plus I guess she adapts to her audience, she would be talking to a francophone interviewer, it would be more about P/C.
It's true we can't reproach the team anything about the programs, P/C had a perfect set of programs and again beat V/M in the FD and probably would have in the SD too or at least be very close without the dress. They had a perfect preparation, we've never seen them so ready early on. The mental coach was very present and seemed to make a great deal of difference especially for Guillaume ( I noticed he was always very close to her, hugging her, holding her hand ...)
Coaching change. I don't see where they could go frankly. Montreal has top notch installations, perfect francophone surroundings making them feel at home. They built strong friendships within Gadbois and outside. They will be the big shot once more, now V/M have (hopefully, when are they gonna announced god damnit
) retired. Having started to fish outside help this season was not hindered it seems, so they can probably get their artistic growth by increasing outside influences. Romain is a key element though. If he's not happy there, then they would probably follow him but again where would Romain go. Going back to France, I don't see it. But here is a wild idea, he could team up with Barbara Fusar-Poli, now that would be something. I'd like to witness a European renaissance in ice dance taking back the North American leadership. John Kerr could join them too and Dean could pop in from time to time. There are some nice European teams with potential like this lovely Georgian junior team in smaller countries who might not have the financing to cross the ocean but would be happy to join a strong European training ground with Gaby and Guillaume leading the way. Ok wishful thinking I know, but how awesome would it be. Anyway, Montreal has done wonders for P/C but MDF and Patch should never forget what P/C did for their center. Their meteoric rise propelled their center at the top of ice dance hierarchy. I hate complot theories so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubts to them regarding what went down those last two years. Mainly because Gaby and Guillaume have improved leaps and bounds proving the training was up to par with their extraordinary capacity for improvement and hard work even when one think they can't improve more. Now I too think they might have outgrown MDF's vision, I just hope Romain will guide them well and MDF will be able to step away a bit. She shouldn't change their vision like she did for Oddudua for instance. She insisted on adding a second softer part which was smart at the time because they were probably not ready to pull off a whole Oddudua FD. However, they definitely are now so if they want to go really experimental, please no more of that type of intervention to soften up their vision. I also think getting uncomfortable is essential to artists, if they're too at ease in that center they might not be pushed enough.
Sorry, I didn't think I had so much to say about all of this.
Have no idea. Everything I have written is speculative: I have no knowledge as to whether P/C are going to remain at Gadbois or leave.
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