Gold vs. Wagner

[Sam-Skwantch]

They are. They just announced the team

I just saw that. See...even the USFSA listens to me sometimes

Seriously...I started typing my post at the same time they released it or something.

 

[Layback11]

Actually, this has all been a little bit like 2014: Gracie and Polina killed it, Ashley not so much (to a lesser degree), and Mirai killed it and surprise-podiumed. Huh..

 

[Jammers]

Actually, this has all been a little bit like 2014: Gracie and Polina killed it, Ashley not so much (to a lesser degree), and Mirai killed it and surprise-podiumed. Huh..

Pierce could have been 4th but she doesn't have the reputation yet so they kept her down.

 

[whatif]

It would be incredibly difficult for any US woman to take gold. Even in Boston. Simple politics. Ice dance results will factor in heavily into the results in Women's outcome. IMO.

 

[Mathman]

Pierce could have been 4th but she doesn't have the reputation yet so they kept her down.

Tyler was good in the LP (with one fall) but Mirai was a clearly superior in almost every area, this time out. Good judging throughout, actually, IMHO.

 

[Mathman]

It would be incredibly difficult for any US woman to take gold. Even in Boston. Simple politics. Ice dance results will factor in heavily into the results in Women's outcome. IMO.

Can you explain this idea? Do you mean that Weaver and Poje winning in ice dance will make the International judges want give the ladies' title to Medvedeva?

 

[Lexiglass]

It would be incredibly difficult for any US woman to take gold. Even in Boston. Simple politics. Ice dance results will factor in heavily into the results in Women's outcome. IMO.

I would be thrilled if a US lady managed a world medal at all, frankly.

 

[andromache]

Can you explain this idea? Do you mean that Weaver and Poje winning in ice dance will make the International judges want give the ladies' title to Medvedeva?

I'm going to assume that whatif means the potential for a North American sweep in ice dance is pretty high this year, with two American teams having serious potential to podium. So the response from Europe might be to hold down the North American ladies?

ISU hates North American ice dance sweeps.

 

[Jammers]

I'm going to assume that whatif means the potential for a North American sweep in ice dance is pretty high this year, with two American teams having serious potential to podium. So the response from Europe might be to hold down the North American ladies?

ISU hates North American ice dance sweeps.

The French team will get on the podium so i don't see a NA sweep. But yeah the Russians especially would hate that to happen again bad enough it took place in Moscow on home ground in 2011.

 

[Mathman]

What is the Owens memorial trophy, and what did Gracie win it for? Is that the glass trophy they give the national champions?

It is a donated trophy for the U.S. ladies' champion, in honor of Maribel Vincent Owen (nine-time U.S. champion) and her two daughters, Maribel and Laurent, sll of whom died in the 1961 airplane crash in which the entire U.S. world team died.

Michelle won it 9 times.

I'm not sure what the USFSA gives to the champions, besides medals, but I think the big glass one is the Readers' Choice Skater of the Year Award. (?)

 

[whatif]

Can you explain this idea? Do you mean that Weaver and Poje winning in ice dance will make the International judges want give the ladies' title to Medvedeva?

As some posters above commented, it is 3 most powerful federations politicking the @#$% out of it to get their ponies up there (RUS, CAN, US). My theory is that it's not even about W/P but a fight between CAN and US. I highly suspect that we are going to have a new World champion in Dance this year and IMO it will be a North American team but which one is the question. Russia putting a lot of their bets on Women and won't let it slip just because Gold suddenly gave a performance of her life in one international competition.

But that's just my theory.

 

[Layback11]

It is a donated trophy for the U.S. ladies' champion, in honor of Maribel Vincent Owen (nine-time U.S. champion) and her two daughters, Maribel and Laurent, sll of whom died in the 1961 airplane crash in which the entire U.S. world team died.

Michelle won it 9 times.

I'm not sure what the USFSA gives to the champions, besides medals, but I think the big glass one is the Readers' Choice Skater of the Year Award. (?)

Interesting. I assume the ladies champion gets it, then?

 

[Mathman]

Interesting. I assume the ladies champion gets it, then?

Yes. The first person to win it was Janet Lynn some time in the 1970s.

Maribel Vincent Owen won the U.S. championship nine times in the 1930s. Her daughter, also named Maribel was a pretty good pairs skater. Her other daughter, Laurence, was the next big thing in U.S. ladies, projected to succeed Carol Heiss as a top-level Olympic contender. The plane crash on the way to 1961 worlds essentially wiped out the entire U.S. elite skating program, which started to recover only when Peggy Fleming came on the scene.

Maribel Vinson Owen coached Frank Carroll, who coached the next (and only other) skater to win 9 U.S. titles.

(Sorry for the history lecture if you already knew all this. )

 

[SoundtracksOnIce]

Gracie all the way. I find Ashley's style and attitude off-putting.

PS - Is Ashley the one who criticized Sasha Cohen's comeback in 2010? I'm not trying to stir up controversy, but I want to make sure I'm not holding something against her that she doesn't deserve if it was someone else.

 

[noskates]

Well, I think this question was answered Saturday night. But even if Ashley had skated clean I do believe Gracie would have been the winner.

 

[skateluvr]

It was really a personal preference question. My thread about Polina is moved to events. I think if Polina comes back next year still able to compete has her jump issues fixed we will see a new champion. Her braces will be off and hopefully her program in the LP will ne worthy. I think the narrative has changed. A new question is Gracie or Polina- who will win a WC championship first?

 

[Mathman]

PS - Is Ashley the one who criticized Sasha Cohen's comeback in 2010? I'm not trying to stir up controversy, but I want to make sure I'm not holding something against her that she doesn't deserve if it was someone else.

``I am skeptical [that Cohen will be able to return],'' Wagner said. ``I think it's very hard to be out of competition for three years and have your first competition be nationals. (But) I'm not counting her out. She's part of the equation.

``If she does show up, I think she will really be prepared for the challenge. It might make things more difficult (in the Olympic quest).''

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com...onded-to-my-message-for-her-to-callafter.html

Everyone was skeptical after Sasha had signed up for the preceding Grand Prix season, only to have to withdraw from her first event, then her second. Even Phil Hersh, a huge Sashaphile, expressed "I'll believe it when I see it."

In the event, of course, she did show up, skated a great short program, looked beautiful as ever, put some money in the pockets of the USFSA, and managed to hold on to fourth (possibly with some friendly judging in the LP).

 

[artsciboy]

Well, I think this question was answered Saturday night. But even if Ashley had skated clean I do believe Gracie would have been the winner.

I think it would have been close and a matter of preference. Gracie benefited from skating last and the judges wanted to give high enough scores to ensure that Polina didn't win. Ashley has the highest FS score of the US ladies at the GPF (with an underrotated triple no less) - 139+. I would go with Ashley if she was clean. Plus, Gracie's clean skate couldn't best Ashley's clean skate from last year. I respect Gracie's skills, but she's still too stiff and not musical enough.

 

[noskates]

Oh for heavens sake. Does anyone honestly think the judges held Polina down purposely? Man that's a lot of subterfuge and pre-planning that I just don't want to believe the USFSA is capable of without a whistle blower. As has been stated MANY times on this board - the judges do not know what each other have submitted until the results come out. Oh wait, maybe they were texting each other telepathically? Or they had lunch together and decided who was going to win regardless?

Yes, Gracie vs. Ashley is a matter of preference. Both have the capability and the history of shooting themselves in the foot and blowing competitions.

 

[RABID]

Oh for heavens sake. Does anyone honestly think the judges held Polina down purposely? Man that's a lot of subterfuge and pre-planning that I just don't want to believe the USFSA is capable of without a whistle blower. As has been stated MANY times on this board - the judges do not know what each other have submitted until the results come out. Oh wait, maybe they were texting each other telepathically? Or they had lunch together and decided who was going to win regardless?

Yes, Gracie vs. Ashley is a matter of preference. Both have the capability and the history of shooting themselves in the foot and blowing competitions.

I was watching TSL's abbreviated recap and I think it was inferred by both Jenny and Dave that when all things are equal both Ashley and Gracie would get the judges' nod by far. That's at least bias by the judges. However that sentiment is also moot because regardless of points the final podium order was the correct one.