GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST

[skatinginbc]

What so many people seem to forget is that Patrick is only 20 y.o. too and hasn't reached his prime either.

Yea, he is so young. I wonder those hard falls will eventually take its toll on his health, the same concern as Tracy and Kurt often express about Oda's bending knees. I'm curious: Are skaters trained to fall in a certain way so that the possibility of injury can be minimized?

 

[demarinis5]

I came back from Quebec yesterday. Boy it was so exciting. I had a luck to ran into Dai again and again till he started to greet me. What a luck!
I became so euphoric that I lost my mind to see programs with cool head.
Dai was just so sensual on the ice that he made some women fainted during his FS!!

Nadine, you are right. He is Elvis on the ice, Nick Slater said so too. Unbelievable charisma and sexuality that even affected the male audience in the arena.

No wonder there are so many Japanese fans following him all over the world. He is just that attractive.
I am not happy with Chan winning free with so many mistakes, but I am still in the afterglow of this fantastic experience, so it does not matter to me right now.

I will see his blues again and again tonight till I go to sleep.
Good night guys.

Sounds like you had a wonderful experience. Did you speak to Dai or were you star struck.

I know the first time that I met the Kween I could not speak because I could not believe she
was standing in front of me. LOL

 

[fscric]

Yea, he is so young. I wonder those hard falls will eventually take its toll on his health, the same concern as Tracy and Kurt often express about Oda's bending knees. I'm curious: Are skaters trained to fall in a certain way so that the possibility of injury can be minimized?

I think every skater risks this danger, why just Patrick?

 

[skatinginbc]

Because he seems to fall more often than others in competition, an indication that he might fall as often in practice or training. So what's his secret of falling without suffering injury? Is there such thing as a better technique for a fall?

 

[wallylutz]

Because he seems to fall more often than others in competition, an indication that he might fall as often in practice or training. So what's his secret of falling without suffering injury? Is there such thing as a better technique for a fall?

I think you probably don't mean it but the impression you gave, with these latest posts, is that you wish Chan would fall and seriously injure himself or have a shorten career as a result. That's how you come across to many there I think, hence fscric's reaction to your posts. Beware.

 

[doctor2014]

I think only time will tell who has reached his prime and who hasn't, and I'm not sure this is something that can be foreseen ahead of time... If you look at the older/previous generation of skaters, quite a few of them seem to have been at their peak physically when they were in their early twenties (e.g. Yags, Plush, Lambiel, Joubert, Verner, Takahashi- though in his case this is attributable to some degree to the ACL injury).

Do you mean that both Chan and Javier have reached their prime already? Oh no! I want them to improve their stamina and jumping technique.

What so many people seem to forget is that Patrick is only 20 y.o. too and hasn't reached his prime either. He's going to be truly amazing when he does.

So what’s the normal age of “prime”? 19-22 for ladies? and 22-24 for men?

 

[Violet Bliss]

So what’s the normal age of “prime”? 19-22 for ladies? and 22-24 for men?

This question puts so many here in a dilemma. In their perfect world, the prime age for Patrick Chan is 20 and for their favorite, 28 -30.

 

[ciocio]

Do you mean that both Chan and Javier have reached their prime already? Oh no! I want them to improve their stamina and jumping technique.



So what’s the normal age of “prime”? 19-22 for ladies? and 22-24 for men?

In my opinion for men is 20-21 years. Girls peak earlier. At 24 they are already past their prime.

 

[Violet Bliss]

In my opinion for men is 20-21 years. Girls peak earlier. At 24 they are already past their prime.

Except for some World and Olympic champions.

 

[ciocio]

Except for some World and Olympic champions.

No. For example, Menshov won Russian Nationals at 27 years old and probably it was the peak of his career but physically he was 100% past his prime. Skating is a sport for young people.
Skaters are getting old too, even our favorites.

 

[Buttercup]

I think you probably don't mean it but the impression you gave, with these latest posts, is that you wish Chan would fall and seriously injure himself or have a shorten career as a result. That's how you come across to many there I think, hence fscric's reaction to your posts. Beware.

You must have made quite an effort to read such a thing into skatinginbc's expression of concern.

Do you mean that both Chan and Javier have reached their prime already? Oh no! I want them to improve their stamina and jumping technique.

Not at all. I'm saying it's too soon to tell, and they may end up improving more as performers than as technicians and jumpers. It's worth noting that both Patrick and Javi have been competing senior from a relatively young age; Javi made his debut at Euros and Worlds before he'd even turned 16, though he mixed in junior events during his first few seasons. This is similar to the older skaters whom I mentioned in my previous post, and not that common among current skaters. So while both are young, they are probably more around the midpoint of their career (actually, assuming Chan at least will retire post-Sochi, he's in the second half of his career by now). I don't know what sort of toll all this might take on a skater's body.

 

[skatinginbc]

I think you probably don't mean it but the impression you gave, with these latest posts, is that you wish Chan would fall and seriously injure himself or have a shorten career as a result. That's how you come across to many there I think, hence fscric's reaction to your posts. Beware.

Sorry that it came across that way. I'm not a skater, so I honestly don't know if there is a "correct" way of falling or not. I roller-skated once and fell butt-first. It hurt like hell and I hardly could stand up and walk after that. Chan is training difficult jumps (e.g., 4S); his difficult footwork and transitions sometimes cause falls as shown in his competitions. Given the difficulty level of his programs, I imagine he must have suffered a lot of falls during his daily training, more so than other skaters. One thing stood out about his falls in competition is that he recovered really fast as if they didn't bother him at all. Yet I remember Yuzuru fell once and missed a great part of his footwork. Again, is there any "secret" way or safe way for falling? Or did Chan simply swallow his pain and resume skating? If the answer is the latter, I'm concerned. I'm afraid those hard falls would eventually take a toll on his health. Personally, I would not trade health with Tara Lipinski's gold medal and I believe a sport should be designed in such as to minimize health risk. For instance, poor jump techniques lead to injury and so they are discouraged with edge deduction and so on. Similarly, a fall might cause injury and so the deduction for it should be great enough to discourage skaters from taking risk more than what their body can handle.

Winning with falls is OK if it happens every now and then, since skating is a risky sport and that's the risk a skater takes. But when it becomes a pattern that skaters are falling all over the place, I'm concerned. It means the sport is not taking the skaters' health in its top priority.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Sorry that it came across that way. I'm not a skater, so I honestly don't know if there is a "correct" way of falling or not. I roller-skated once and fell butt-first. It hurt like hell and I hardly could stand up and walk after that. Chan is training difficult jumps (e.g., 4S); his difficult footwork and transitions sometimes cause falls as well as shown in his competitions. Given the difficulty level of his programs, I imagine he must have suffered a lot of falls during his daily training, more so than other skaters. One thing stood out about his falls in competition is that he recovered really fast as if they didn't bother him at all. Yet I remember Yuzuru fell once and missed a great part of his footwork. Again, is there any "secret" way or safe way for falling? Or did Chan simply swallow his pain and resume skating? If the answer is the latter, I'm concerned. I'm afraid those hard falls would eventually take a toll on his health. Personally, I would not trade health with Tara Lipinski's gold medal and I believe a sport should be designed in such as to minimize health risk. For instance, poor jump techniques lead to injury and so they are discouraged with edge deduction and so on. Similarly, a fall might cause injury and so the deduction for it should be great enough to discourage skaters from taking risk more than their body can handle.

Winning with falls is OK if it happens every now and then, since skating is a risky sport and that's the risk a skater takes. But when it becomes a pattern that skaters are falling all over the place, I'm concerned. It means the sport is not taking the skaters' health in its top priority.

Takahashi injured his knee because he tried to save a jump. He said he had never been injured before because he knew how to fall. In many sports, falling properly is one of the first thing an athlete must learn. Expert commentators get all concerned whenever a skater falls awkwardly.

 

[skatinginbc]

Takahashi injured his knee because he tried to save a jump. He said he had never been injured before because he knew how to fall. In many sports, falling properly is one of the first thing an athlete must learn. Expert commentators get all concerned whenever a skater falls awkwardly.

If it is true that falling properly is one of the first thing an athlete must learn, I would argue that those who fall properly should receive less GOE deduction on the fall than those who fall awkwardly. And I am serious about it.

 

[FTnoona]

If it is true that falling properly is one of the first thing an athlete must learn, I would argue that those who fall properly should receive less GOE deduction on the fall than those who fall awkwardly. And I am serious about it.

I think awkward falls on jumps come from poor technique going into the jump maybe from nerves or fatigue. You learn how to fall properly but there isn't much you can do if you are already tilted so badly in the air (ie Jeremy Abbott CoR FS on his opening quad). I don't think that awkward falls should receive less GOE deduction than proper falls because in the end something was wrong with the technique of that particular jump that day.

 

[Spun Silver]

Takahashi injured his knee because he tried to save a jump. He said he had never been injured before because he knew how to fall.

That's interesting because within the last few days I saw one of the men save a jump in a way that made me fear for his knee. I've watched so much skating recently that I couldn't tell you who it was. Skaters may know how to fall, but if they can save their jumps, probably most of them would, risky or not.

 

[Mathman]

If it is true that falling properly is one of the first thing an athlete must learn, I would argue that those who fall properly should receive less GOE deduction on the fall than those who fall awkwardly. And I am serious about it.

:disagree: That's like giving a baseball player half a run credit if he strikes out with aplomb.

("That ain't my style," said Casey. "Strike one," the umpire said. )

Skaters are getting old too, even our favorites.

I know, I know. In another ten years or so Michelle will be past her skating prime.

 

[Becki]

This question puts so many here in a dilemma. In their perfect world, the prime age for Patrick Chan is 20 and for their favorite, 28 -30.

LOL. That is so funny....but people reach their prime at different ages, right? I think PChan is at his prime right now, and will be up to Sochi unless he is injured.... *touch wood*

I am starting to think Daisuke's prime was in 2008...but he never had the chance to "peak" because of his injury. Imagine if he didn't get injury, and was competing at a high level until Olympics 2010....he would've definitely been the one to beat!!

 

[derplutz]

Men's skating needs more men like Plushenko and Fernandez

 

[silver.blades]

You do train skaters to fall 'properly' to prevent injury, but falling properly has more to do with the technique of the jump than trying to fall a certain way because the jumps happen so fast and there's not a lot you can do in the air to fix one that's gone wrong. Fully rotated and backwards jumps are the safest, bailing on a jump or coming down with the blade sideways tend to hurt the most. Falls in footwork tend to be some of the worst because they're unexpected so the body isn't prepared. That's one thing about jumps. It's always in the back of the skater's mind that they might fall, so subconsciously the body is prepared to protect itself in a way it isn't during footwork or spins.