Gracie Gold opens up about body standards

[musicfan80]

Could not disagree more.

Gracie and Carly are best friends and twins.
But when speaking of their closeness, I would not use the word "dependence" (in an unhealthy sense) and would definitely not use the words "emotionally stilting."

I have never gotten the impression that Gracie had a "dependent" relationship with her sister, other than the typical close relationship that siblings should have.

Don't agree with calling Frank "out-of-touch" either.

Um, yeah. :agree: I think that Frank Carroll wasn't overall the best coach for Gracie (especially after 2014), but I do think he was a big reason why she improved so much from 2012-2013 to 2013-2014. I also think that Frank is a superb coach for some skaters right now - IMO, it's highly unlikely that Denis Ten have Olympic or World medals if it wasn't for Frank.

Four years ago, when Gracie was 18 (yes, already an adult), she was performing well. The comparison is apples and oranges.
As for "professional" having "different" meanings: To be "professional" in the sports world means that an athlete is being paid, whether directly for performances or indirectly by product sponsors. In no instance does it make a person immune from publicity and/or scrutiny. Don't you think the fans shelling out their $$ for SoI tickets deserved to know that one of the top advertised stars was skating at such a low level?

Especially how $$$$ the tickets are. I remember going to Champions on Ice and I went to the Richmond, VA during their last tour (2007). By then the tickets were $100/piece and the level of performances were horrifically bad. I told the people next to me that no way would COI last much longer with this business model. I was right.

Also consider that Gracie, especially after Sochi, received some significantly good sponsorships deals (Nike, Red Bull, etc.) and I've sometimes wondered how much athletes that age understand the obligations of what is expected/required. A company isn't going to give you $$$$ out of the goodness of their heart. They are doing it because they think it will further their brand. Add that to the fact that most Olympic athletes and especially figure skaters aren't as well off as Gracie was, and I can't imagine the added pressure that must have been on her.

 

[Amei]

It will also be helpful for the media to self regulate.

For example I am not a fan of any reporter who condemn any skaters for not performing to their expectations. It is rather entitled attitude and bring unrealistic expectations and pressures to the skater and the federations. This expectations will rub off on the fans with nationalistic tendencies.

These are young people, some generosity, kindness, realistic expectations and encouragement can go a long way.

Coaches/skaters have to be mindful though, they need media attention more than the media needs figure skating...skating is an expensive sport and without the 'golden girl', 'skating's next best thing', etc. media-hype that skaters get it would most likely make getting sponsors/income not related to their results more difficult.

 

[gkelly]

As for "professional" having "different" meanings: To be "professional" in the sports world means that an athlete is being paid, whether directly for performances or indirectly by product sponsors. In no instance does it make a person immune from publicity and/or scrutiny. Don't you think the fans shelling out their $$ for SoI tickets deserved to know that one of the top advertised stars was skating at such a low level?

How much would a skater need to be paid and by whom to qualify as "professional"?

For a US skater, if they earn team envelope funding through USFS, does that make them professional? All levels? Do Caroline Zhang and Courtney Hicks, currently in Envelope B along with Gracie Gold, currently qualify? Does skating on prime time TV in the final group at Nationals make one fair game, even if one receives no funding (e.g., Tessa Hong)? After all, a casual fan or general sports journalist with limited time to research how figure skating work might easily assume these skaters are earning money for the performances that put them on TV, even if that's not the case.

Or would prize money at international competitions, or USOC funding as potential Olympic prospects, put them in the open-to-criticism group?

What about money from sponsors, money from outside the sport that's based on the skater's past accomplishments within the sport, marketability, and in many cases expectations by the sponsor that the athlete will continue to stay in the public eye by competing at a high level?

Do the same standards apply to athletes from other Olympic sports who might fund their expensive training with federation and USOC grants and corporate sponsorships but who also take in little more than they spend, or not even as much?

Should Olympic swimmers and gymnasts and fencers and track-and-field athletes and skiers and snowboarders and curlers be subject to the same scrutiny as NFL players with multimillion-dollar contracts?

Getting hired for a show like Stars on Ice is certainly a professional gig. But it's a show, not part of the sport. Is the skater being paid to perform competitive-level programs, or to entertain audiences? The best SOI employees can do both at the same time and the worst might do neither. If critics are going to take skaters to task for bad show performances, would they be more justified in objecting to skaters not looking competition ready on tour, or objecting to skaters who fail to engage the audience?

If the latter, if we treat SOI as the show that it is, then would tours by winners of singing and dancing reality TV shows be a closer comparison than other sports?

 

[Moxiejan]

The subject is Gracie, who for years has been represented by a sports agency, has product-endorsement contracts and earns money from skating shows and appearances. (And most top competitions now award significant prize money.) That makes her a professional. For that to be true, it is not necessary to define the "professional" status of every other skater in the USFS system.

And, yes, athletes in other Olympic sports are subject to media scrutiny. Just ask Michael Phelps, Gabby Douglas and Lolo Jones. They also have had multimillion-dollar contracts.

 

[ruffledgrouse]

I went back and watched this after hearing about Gracie: Shake It Off EX

And I thought I'd add this to the discussion about body types in sports (Never fails to crack me up. We're freaking HOBBITS )

 

[Skater Boy]

First, regardless of opinions, theories or whatever it is always sad if not troubling to see any skater struggle for any reason and I wish Gracie the best - the best may not include competitive skating - I don't know but a gold medal is often fleeting, a life isn't.

Second, I don't quite fully know or u nderstand what her challenge is in her life but I wish her great healing and peace. May hse find herself and her happy place.

Third, I do think there are so many pressures on a skater who appears to be the "next great thing" or who has shown huge potential. One can only imagine the issue of the media spotlight, financial pressures, living up to your own expectations, your family,sponsors and the whole issue of the huge financial investment and sacrifices from your family let alone meeting expectations of sponsors. Add to that you are a young person maturing physically and emotionally - one does not know how your make up (physically or emotionally) will end up. you have to adapt and sometimes it takes time for the stars to line up ie Maria Butyrskaya and sometimes they never do really line up ie Yulia Lipnskaya (okay yes for the team event at Oly's). This year we saw two REAL big hopes retire in Mao and Yulia. In some ways my heart cries. Such talent and such parents and but for the push for technical jumps and pushing the envelope they might still be competing - ditto for the men. Maybe skating reflects the world. There is such a push now for well educated, well rounded people who are suppose to be perfect - big time professional moving up the corporate ladder, comes home and "cooks the bacon" in a healthy and fancy way, DIY everything from renovations and plumbing to weddings, to knitting and sewing etc and attend the kids soccer games while fixing the family SUV - Supposedly skaters are to be the blended quad king and artist. But the truth is somethinghas to give usually. And we might lose a few on the way for this "push" I appreciate all these skaters ie Shoma, Boyang, Vincent and of course Nathan talk about the full packate, improving this and that - but really it is hard if not unnatural that you do all well - I appreciate there are huge Hanyu fans who might say he has it all but don't be fooled there is a price for more quads whether be bit of stalking or whatever. Some people call it excitement with all the quads and some might say this is just now a crap shoot. You might call this trolling but it isn't meant too. I am not sure what the answer is but I just believe we need to remember, and I am sure most do, these are human beings with feelings including insecurities.

 

[NanaPat]

Nowhere in my post did I claim she was lying, all I said was if she did lie it was disgusting.

You know what I find disgusting? Making something up out of whole cloth and then calling people names based on pure fantasy.

 

[GrandmaCC]

I have never gotten the impression that Gracie had a "dependent" relationship with her sister, other than the typical close relationship that siblings should have.

Really? Are we forgetting '16 Nationals where both sisters (at least in the lead-up) answered more questions about their relationship than their individual quests? I understand that the whole "Omggg TWINS!!!" gimmick was definitely media *gold* (sorry) but seriously, how awful must that've been, for each of the girls? We didn't see anything on that scale when the Kwan sisters were competing, nor do we see it in other sports. Even the Williams sisters, who play doubles together and ARE a team get treated more as individuals as opposed to two halves of a whole. Do we see fluff pieces on the siblings of every other skater? No. No we don't.

Then we have Sochi, with the whole "and look at Gracie's nowhere near as talented twin, here as a cheerleader only!!". That would've been enough to land poor Carly on the therapist's couch for life.

Annnnd finally, the fact that Carly went to college and left Gracie "all alone!!" with Frank
to train was regarded by many here as a huge contributing factor to her downwards emotional spiral.

(There's also the fact that Gracie's social media consists of a billion shots of her clinging to Carly like a life bouy).

I truly don't think she's been given the chance to go out on her own, forge her own identity and get to know who she is as a person. Not a skater, not a twin, not a Golden Girl of Skating, just a person.


As for Frank; is he brilliant? Absolutely. Is he in touch with the young female psyche and willing to adapt his methodology to suit the emotional needs of a young (ish) girl? Nope. I think even his handling of Kwan back in '98 shows that. Does he need to change? Of course not, it's up to the athlete to choose him as a coach and know when to add supplementary coaching and support. But elderly (not only not subjective but also not necessarily a bad thing) and not up with the new generation? I'll stand by that.

 

[OS]

The subject is Gracie, who for years has been represented by a sports agency, has product-endorsement contracts and earns money from skating shows and appearances. (And most top competitions now award significant prize money.) That makes her a professional. For that to be true, it is not necessary to define the "professional" status of every other skater in the USFS system.

And, yes, athletes in other Olympic sports are subject to media scrutiny. Just ask Michael Phelps, Gabby Douglas and Lolo Jones. They also have had multimillion-dollar contracts.

The thing is I don't care if she is a 'professional' athlete that earns $10 or $100 million. The trouble with the capitalist world is it starts to see people as commercial opportunities, commodities, products, money, national sponsored therefore breed some weird sense of nationalistic ownership followed by entitlement on how they 'should' be, expressed as an extension of their own national identity. These are the tendencies, but also an unhealthy one. They are young human beings, not some public servants.

Just because it is accepted in some sports circles doesn't mean it is right. Media can scrutinise all they want, it is part of their job, but there are more important thing or better ways to scrutinise than nationalistic entitlement one, there are better ways to handle young people's lives who may not be emotionally, physically equipped dealing with media vultures.

Although it is not required. One can choose to be kind, one can choose to be wise, or they can choose to sell papers that get tractions on social media. People can choose not to agree with everything media sensationalise. There's only one winner in every competition, statistically, it is ridiculous to expect every professional athlete to win every time, should they all be condemned and scrutinised every time they don't win? Is this an individual sport, or you better win USA (+ any alt country) is greatest in the world blah blah blah...

I doubt the likes of Yulia and Gracie's problems happen over night, they are likely chronic issues or symptoms that frequently happens with this sport stemmed from pressures of successes and expectations since young.

 

[Moxiejan]

One can choose to be kind, one can choose to be wise, or they can choose to sell papers that get tractions on social media. People can choose not to agree with everything media sensationalise. There's only one winner in every competition, statistically it is ridiculous to expect every professional athlete to win every time, should they all be condemned and scrutinised every time they don't win? Is this an individual sport, or you better win USA (+ any alt country) is greatest in the world blah blah blah...

I doubt the likes of Yulia and Gracie's problems happen over night, they are likely chronic issues or symptoms that frequently happens with this sport stemmed from pressures of successes and expectations since young.

So you're not blaming parents or coaches for these pressures and expectations? Just the evil media and evil nationalism (mostly USA)? Using your own words: "blah blah blah."

Reading the recent stories about Gracie and Julia in mainstream media (i am talking professional accredited writers and not untrained bloggers or social media wannabes), I have seen honest-yet-sympathetic stories that have been anything but sensationalized. Especially with Gracie, they have never even hinted at the kind of speculation about personal relationships that i have seen on Twitter and Facebook. (Thankfully, not on this forum.)

 

[OS]

So you're not blaming parents or coaches for these pressures and expectations? Just the evil media and evil nationalism (mostly USA)? Using your own words: "blah blah blah."

Reading the recent stories about Gracie and Julia in mainstream media (i am talking professional accredited writers and not untrained bloggers or social media wannabes), I have seen honest-yet-sympathetic stories that have been anything but sensationalized. Especially with Gracie, they have never even hinted at the kind of speculation about personal relationships that i have seen on Twitter and Facebook. (Thankfully, not on this forum.)

Stop put in views I did not state. I am referring to some articles past few years AND around social media. Sympathy is cheap when the skater is already down...and OUT. This does not apply just to her either but others like her.

Gracie skate for USA, so ofcourse she will feature more on the USA media/forums, just like Julia in Russia. It is not hard to understand unless you write for a right wing conservative media...in which case you will just believe what you want to .

 

[bevybean]

Personally, I think all sports reporting should have some level of respect. Of course they should point out the bad with the good, but in a constructive, respectful way. My exposure to media reports of FS are limited, but that is what I have heard so far from them. However, some athletes are going to find there is pressure involved with any kind of media exposure and the coaches or the sports agency representing the athlete should be helping to manage that for the athlete. (I was happy to see in Jason Brown's post about Champs Camp that they do a class on media exposure --practicing being interviewed, etc.)

I hate it when people on here response to media criticisms by pointing out how harsh football reporters are or reporters covering college athletes. If the reporters are being harsh/disrespectful in their coverage, then they should stop it too.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Reporters are seriously blunt and harsh in the big American sports, but the fans of those sports are also extremely harsh and blunt back at those same reporters. The treatment figure skating reporters get from fans is pretty proportional I find.