Gracie Gold opens up about body standards

[mrrice]

While it is true that I have never seen Maé-Bérénice Méité in person, I have seen her next to other skaters like Ashley Wagner. And I've seen Ashley Wagner in person. Sorting through those comparisons, I would bet that even compared to the general population Maé-Bérénice is tall and large boned --though also very muscular. My point is that even though certain body types will be the trend for each sport, we shouldn't rule someone out just because they are not that type.

It's hard to compare Ashley to other skaters. She is such a big performer that I was shocked to see how tiny she was in person. Almost all of the skaters are tiny and from what I remember, Alissa Czisny might have been the tallest lady when I went to Nationals in 2011. All the skaters were thin as rakes and I was also surprised at how tiny and thin Rachael Flatt was. She got flack for her East Of Eden So but I'm telling you, it was spectacular in person.

 

[Tavi...]

Then she's not "taking a break" while she seeks help. She's simply opting out of one cheesefest (Japan Open) and likely one Senior B (Nepela).

Does it matter?

This is an exact quote from the Ice Network article: "However, after recent struggles on and off the ice, I realize I need to seek some professional help and will be taking some time off while preparing for my Grand Prix assignments" (emphasis added).

 

[bevybean]

It's hard to compare Ashley to other skaters. She is such a big performer that I was shocked to see how tiny she was in person. Almost all of the skaters are tiny and from what I remember, Alissa Czisny might have been the tallest lady when I went to Nationals in 2011. All the skaters were thin as rakes and I was also surprised at how tiny and thin Rachael Flatt was. She got flack for her East Of Eden So but I'm telling you, it was spectacular in person.

Ashley and I are of similar height, so I guess "tiny" isn't a word I would use to describe her. It's all about perspective, I guess.

 

[musicfan80]

Ashley and I are of similar height, so I guess "tiny" isn't a word I would use to describe her. It's all about perspective, I guess.

I've never considered Ashley to be "tiny" - her wikipedia says she's 5'3". The average American woman is supposedly 5'4". That average makes sense to me because I am 5'8" and while I notice that I am taller than most women there are still a quite a few women that are taller than me - sometimes by a bit.

What I will mainly say about this is that while Gracie has stepped away and is on her "break" (whatever that involves - it's none of our business), we all consider stepping away from speculating about her situation until we get an update from her, her team, or USFS. It's not like we don't have plenty of other skating to discuss.

 

[skylark]

It's hard to compare Ashley to other skaters. She is such a big performer that I was shocked to see how tiny she was in person.

Ashley and I are of similar height, so I guess "tiny" isn't a word I would use to describe her. It's all about perspective, I guess.

Ashley and I are also of similar height, and I agree with mrrice. When I saw her in person, I was stunned at how tiny she is. And I agree with his reasoning. It's her ice presence, taking command, drawing the audience in, reaching out with her feelings (yes, Luke Skywalker) to make an emotional connection ... she's such a big performer. When I saw Karen Chen in person at 2015 nationals, she was even smaller than she is now, and she also filled the ice in a way that was unusual, and noticeable.

I was telling this story about Ashley to a few friends once, and my lovely 90-year-old friend said she'd noticed the same thing when she saw a play in the theater and then saw the actors up close. Some sort of performance aura creates an illusion.

And that thing of reaching out with your feelings ..... I was in the nose-bleed section when I first saw Scott Hamilton. As soon as he skated onto the ice, I felt his desire to make every single person in that huge arena happy. And then he did.

 

[skylark]

Like stop calling natural process of maturing and aging "the puberty monster" (that makes it sound like something to hide from and then be ashamed of when it does happen and thus the skater may develop an unhealthy attitude about it or even blame themselves for letting it happen at that important time in their competitive career). The more aesthetic aspects of the sport with regard to body line, posture, flexibility, etc. can still be achieved with any body type so long as a skater's training makes it a priority..

Hearing or even reading that phrase makes me livid. In an interview, a figure skating coach said, "as you know, all hell breaks loose in a 15-year-old girl's body." I wanted to reach through the computer screen, grab his collar and say, "All hell breaks loose? You're talking about that little thing that means the human race doesn't die off."

Okay, I'll calmn down now. Your statement about body line, posture and flexibility is right on. I think our (meaning U.S.) pairs teams would benefit a lot from paying attention to those qualities. Ashley Cain and Tim LeDuc do pay attention ... that's one reason I love them. Also, Deanna Stellato's head and back positions are stellar.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Hearing or even reading that phrase makes me livid. In an interview, a figure skating coach said, "as you know, all hell breaks loose in a 15-year-old girl's body." I wanted to reach through the computer screen, grab his collar and say, "All hell breaks loose? You're talking about that little thing that means the human race doesn't die off."

Okay, I'll calmn down now. Your statement about body line, posture and flexibility is right on. I think our (meaning U.S.) pairs teams would benefit a lot from paying attention to those qualities. Ashley Cain and Tim LeDuc do pay attention ... that's one reason I love them. Also, Deanna Stellato's head and back positions are stellar.

That reminds me of an interview Michelle Kwan did where she commented on her bad 1996-1997 season. She was doing badly and lost three competitions to Tara Lipinski and people kept attributing it to Kwan's maturing body and changes to her body, etc. Kwan said that really wasn't it and that she was really embarrassed because people in the media kept talking about her 16-year-old body and making all sorts of comments. It made her really self-conscious about it. Much later, we find out from subsequent interviews with her and Frank Carroll that the primary reasons for her jump issues that season were her boot issues (switching from her usual SP-Teri to Riedell), something being seriously wrong with the alignment of her blade (it even affected her edges on her spirals and she had to shift her body in a different way to avoid falling), and her psyching herself out at competition due to those issues.

 

[GrandmaCC]

I always found weird that most off-seasons (during her Frank Carroll era) Gracie was obviously fuller, but would look way slimmer in just a few weeks as soon as the season started. For the longest time I thought she just could gain and lose weight very easily, but I am starting to believe that there was already more to it[/QUOTE]


Anyone else thinking that Frank himself may have too old-school a knowledge base about weight composition?
I can see him as one of those coaches who see weight as just scale weight, and not put thought into muscle vs fat, where the muscle is distributed (something I'm finding is important in "gravity sports", having recently & tentatively taken up one after being a swimmer), someone who might not understand things like fluid retention in females, things like that.

There's no reason - medical issues aside- for someone at their "grown up weight" like Gracie in '14, even Mirai (see '10 vs now) who has access to dieticians, sponsors providing optimal nutrition, doctors, and so on not being able to maintain their optimal competition weight. Imma guess that his skaters don't receive adequate nutritional education and possibly not adequate emotional support, and that what we as viewers thought in those years was a healthily reached comp weight might've been something attained by unhealthy and unsustainable means. Even though they looked very healthy, they could very well have not been.

I hope Gracie can find someone who will help her identify her body's set point and give her proper nutritional and strength building advice, as well as help erase any emotional issues she has with food/body image.
If we could just give her Ashley's mindset (maybe even her competition mindset, too!) she would IMO be so much stronger and happier both physically and mentally.

 

[Moxiejan]

If we could just give her Ashley's mindset (maybe even her competition mindset, too!) she would IMO be so much stronger and happier both physically and mentally.

Ashley herself has said that emotional issues have affected her skating. I know she has said that last season was tough for her due to a difficult breakup with her longtime boyfriend & not having Adam at the rink with her, due to his injury. But, yes, she does seem to have a mindset that allows her to bounce back and rebuild. "The Show Must Go On."

 

[skylark]

If we could just give her Ashley's mindset (maybe even her competition mindset, too!) she would IMO be so much stronger and happier both physically and mentally.

Ashley herself has said that emotional issues have affected her skating. I know she has said that last season was tough for her due to a difficult breakup with her longtime boyfriend & not having Adam at the rink with her, due to his injury. But, yes, she does seem to have a mindset that allows her to bounce back and rebuild. "The Show Must Go On."

:luv17: :luv17: :luv17:

Thank you. Many people talk as if Ashley isn't at all affected by the abuse, negatives, etc. that she receives. And it isn't that it doesn't hurt. She wouldn't be able to communicate emotions in her skating nearly as well if she were somehow immune or invincible. She's just learned to examine it, try to look at it neutrally, and turn it to her advantage. For instance, she said after the 2014 olympics, she read Tara's comment that Ashley would retire. Ashley said:

"There's nothing more disheartening than seeing your idol write you off. But in that moment, it kind of reminded me that if she's thinking that, then I'm sure a ton of other people are thinking that. That was something that really pushed me to become an even stronger athlete so that I could get my silver medal [at the World Figure Skating Championships in 2016]." http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/...lks-concussions-costumes-collisions-body-2017​

Something to keep in mind: In 2014, Ashley was exactly the age that Gracie is now.

 

[skylark]

If we could just give her Ashley's mindset (maybe even her competition mindset, too!) she would IMO be so much stronger and happier both physically and mentally.

No one gifted Ashley with her mindset. She had to earn it.

Ashley was never the "It Girl" or the Chosen One. Mirai, Caroline Zhang, and Gracie all had their turns at it. That "blessing" is a double-edged sword, which after all these years Mirai, Caroline (and of course Gracie) are still working through. But Ashley's also still working through it, and it's no easier NOT to be the Chosen One.

Here's a quote from her SOI bio. It piqued my interest, because these are not words we often associate with any of the "it girls" when they first leap into the spotlight. Including the international ones like Julia.

Strong, powerful and elegant are all words that aptly describe U.S. ladies competitor Ashley Wagner. Resilient, tenacious and triumphant can now be added to the mix. http://www.starsonice.com/skater-detail.html?sid=69​

 

[Amei]

Does it matter?

This is an exact quote from the Ice Network article: "However, after recent struggles on and off the ice, I realize I need to seek some professional help and will be taking some time off while preparing for my Grand Prix assignments" (emphasis added).

Umm yes. There's a big difference between I don't want to waste my time at some 'meaningless' competitions and I'm getting help for a problem. If the truth is that she just doesn't want to compete at a 'cheesefest' and the 'seeking help' thing is just a cover-up, then it's disgusting manipulation of fans to announce it less than a week after another big-name skater announces their retirement after suffering from an eating disorder.

 

[el henry]

Umm yes. There's a big difference between I don't want to waste my time at some 'meaningless' competitions and I'm getting help for a problem. If the truth is that she just doesn't want to compete at a 'cheesefest' and the 'seeking help' thing is just a cover-up, then it's disgusting manipulation of fans to announce it less than a week after another big-name skater announces their retirement after suffering from an eating disorder.

Seriously? :dev2::dev2::dev2:

There is absolutely no proof that this is a "cover-up". Can you point me to the evidence that shows that? Can you point me to *any* evidence other than Gracie is a skater who has announced that she has a problem, is taking steps to address the problem, and has courageously shared that she both has and is taking steps to address this problem? Bravo and hat's off to Gracie

Any "disgusting manipulation" is certainly not coming from Gracie......

 

[Amei]

Seriously? :dev2::dev2::dev2:

There is absolutely no proof that this is a "cover-up". Can you point me to the evidence that shows that? Can you point me to *any* evidence other than Gracie is a skater who has announced that she has a problem, is taking steps to address the problem, and has courageously shared that she both has and is taking steps to address this problem? Bravo and hat's off to Gracie

Any "disgusting manipulation" is certainly not coming from Gracie......

Apparently you missed the part where I said IF. And I was responding to the speculation that was posed that she wasn't seriously taking a break and seeking help if she was still prepping for the Grand Prix series.

Umm yes. There's a big difference between I don't want to waste my time at some 'meaningless' competitions and I'm getting help for a problem. If the truth is that she just doesn't want to compete at a 'cheesefest' and the 'seeking help' thing is just a cover-up, then it's disgusting manipulation of fans to announce it less than a week after another big-name skater announces their retirement after suffering from an eating disorder.

 

[Barb]

by the way, earlier I was watching jr GP ladies FS (Austria), the live stream has a chat, and someone was putting a row of pig icons constantly in the chat while an australian skater was skating, w..t..h?, I guess that live stream is where the family of the skaters watch them to compete, so disgusting.

 

[el henry]

Apparently you missed the part where I said IF. And I was responding to the speculation that was posed that she wasn't seriously taking a break and seeking help if she was still prepping for the Grand Prix series.

But's that just it. "IF". If I get a quad axel, I will qualify for the Olympics and take the spot away from many deserving ladies skaters.

Personally, I don't think we should be talking about "if's" with Gracie. She has been through enough, with people claiming that talk about her weight, or what she's wearing for heaven's sakes::sarcasm: is "just the facts", and "treating skating like a sport" and "just criticism like all other sports". Ummm, no, that kind of talk is not any of those things.:disapp:

And because she has been the subject of so much speculation, and parsing of her press release like it's a Shakespearean sonnet, I am not sure what is gained by criticizing Gracie based on "if's". Don't we have enough to talk about with the upcoming season without that?

 

[Arriba627]

^^^Couldn't agree with you more. The live chat WAS disgusting. Thank goodness I finally realized it was possible to turn off that chat. Just can't understand the cruelty to some of these ladies who are working so hard!:dumb:

 

[el henry]

^^^Couldn't agree with you more. The live chat WAS disgusting. Thank goodness I finally realized it was possible to turn off that chat. Just can't understand the cruelty to some of these ladies who are working so hard!:dumb:

Sounds horrible, glad I didn't watch it.

And I don't know how to move my post so that yours refer to Chapis directly, rather than mine. Beyond my technical skill.

 

[jrice314]

Not sure if someone has mentioned this, but Carolina Kostner is 5 ft 7 in. I think that is about 75th percentile for European women, so it is tall but not out of this world--I don't think there has ever been an elite senior female figure skater who was 5 ft 10 in.

From a pure physics standpoint, it requires less torque for an object to spin if the object is concentrated around its rotational axis than if it is spread out more. Try spinning with your arms spread out vs with your arms pulled in. You will automatically spin faster with arms pulled in. This is one reason why women cannot do as many jump rotations as men--hips, breasts, etc. make the moment of inertia (how spread out you are) higher. As for weight, the heavier an object, the more force required to lift it in the air. So if your weight is coming from muscles that make you stronger, your strength may compensate for the extra weight, but generally, the heavier you are, the more muscle strength you need to lift yourself into the air. All that said, I think there are definitely body types that are more or less ideal for skaters.

I agree that the senior level should start after most women have gone through puberty--maybe age 17. What happened to Julia is really sad. Also, there is a sense in which it is not quite fair to compare 4 ft 11 in girls who have not gone through puberty to fully developed women. When they do triple jumps on the ice, they are not doing the same thing. Maybe instead of dividing juniors and seniors by age, there should be height / weight classes in figure skating, like in wrestling. I know all kinds of abuses happen with people trying to fit the correct weight class, but from a purely physics standpoint (comparing apples to apples rather than apples to oranges when looking at what each girl is accomplishing on the ice), that seems more fair than dividing by age.

 

[karne]

Umm yes. There's a big difference between I don't want to waste my time at some 'meaningless' competitions and I'm getting help for a problem. If the truth is that she just doesn't want to compete at a 'cheesefest' and the 'seeking help' thing is just a cover-up, then it's disgusting manipulation of fans to announce it less than a week after another big-name skater announces their retirement after suffering from an eating disorder.

I don't give a toss if you added the "if" qualifier, literally NO-ONE in this thread was saying that until you brought it up and it's still a disgusting thing to say.

by the way, earlier I was watching jr GP ladies FS (Austria), the live stream has a chat, and someone was putting a row of pig icons constantly in the chat while an australian skater was skating, w..t..h?, I guess that live stream is where the family of the skaters watch them to compete, so disgusting.

The live chats on the JGP streams are just gross and a lot of the people in them are vile.