- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
Cohen did not start off as a ballerina, she was an artistic gymnast. That's why she was more powerful in her earlier years than skaters like Caroline, Alissa, Mirai etc.
Has CoP Destroyed Asada?
- Thread starter janetfan
- Start date
Cohen did not start off as a ballerina, she was an artistic gymnast. That's why she was more powerful in her earlier years than skaters like Caroline, Alissa, Mirai etc.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
Me too. I also include skaters like Kwan and Kostner in this category. :agree:
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
Assocation vs. Causation.I think the main reason for the decline of interest in figure skating in the United States is simply cultural drift.
In the 1940s and 50s the Miss America contest was huge. Wow, just look at Bess Myerson smiling and holding those roses in her evening gown, now that's entertainment!
In the time of Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill, when you won an Olympic medal or world championship, what you really won was the title of America's Sweetheart.
Nowadays, we are not so much interested in sweethearts and princesses as we were back then. We are more into rock 'em, sock 'em athletes like Serena Williams.
Other forms of entertainment, same thing. We do not any more look to Hollywood to create a string of glamous beauties for us to admire. We like Meryl Streep better.Anyway, I really do not believe that changing the scoring system will make much difference one way of the other in terms of the public appeal of skating. JMO.
Is cultural drift causing the declining interest in Figure Skating, or is something else causing lack of interest, which in turn drives the drift? Personally (and I do not think it is unique to the United States), I believe that whenever a country has a strong athlete/team in a sport, there is increased interest in the general population, and conversely, when a country's athletes aren't particularly strong, a loss of interest occurs. We will always have individuals interested in whatever for personal reasons, but when it comes to mainstream sports attention, interest seems to follow performance of one's own. (There is positive feedback where interest, in turn, helps identify and support potential and precocious talents...but I don't believe American investment in figure skating stars has gone down.) Also, I don't believe sweethearts and princesses ever go down in popularity. That's why tennis stars like Anna Kournikova were popular, despite her relatively weaker athletic performance.
Taylor Swift is a wholesome sweetheart, and she seems to still be well-loved.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
OT since it was mention I need to ask. Why are ladies skaters called princesses? The men are not the princes of figure skating. I have watched skating for a long time and I don't get why ladies are called that. It's so cheesy.
Jeff is often called an "ice prince." He often skates to Disney music at shows and the role of Disney prince has always been so becoming.
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- May 15, 2009
- Joined
- May 26, 2009
Au contraire- Stéphane Lambiel est Le Petit Prince!
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- May 15, 2009
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to me the problem with the cop is calling ur, negative goes for some skaters.
mao-this year has been hit hard.
yu-na hasn't been hit--even though she should have on her combination jumps in both short and long.
it seems the judges/technical callers are overlooking some urs,wrong edges etc over others.
that is what is wrong-does it hurt the sport-yes, the same way under 6.0 and when figures were in and they overlook urs, prerotation, bad landings, for some skaters than others when they overlook them at the olympics --figure for one skater the same as another -they put one ahead of the other just because they wanted that won to win-or for a particular country or for anyother reason.
cop isn't any different now than before--they only difference is the public, viewing and figure skating public now knows what the judges are looking for and they are seeing the mistakes and not being called on ne skater and nailing other skater for doing the exact same thing. -no matter which discipline.
mao-this year has been hit hard.
yu-na hasn't been hit--even though she should have on her combination jumps in both short and long.
it seems the judges/technical callers are overlooking some urs,wrong edges etc over others.
that is what is wrong-does it hurt the sport-yes, the same way under 6.0 and when figures were in and they overlook urs, prerotation, bad landings, for some skaters than others when they overlook them at the olympics --figure for one skater the same as another -they put one ahead of the other just because they wanted that won to win-or for a particular country or for anyother reason.
cop isn't any different now than before--they only difference is the public, viewing and figure skating public now knows what the judges are looking for and they are seeing the mistakes and not being called on ne skater and nailing other skater for doing the exact same thing. -no matter which discipline.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think when people say "ice princess" they are deliberately using that cheesy term to make fun of the sport. She's such a "pwetty pwincess," yuk, yuk.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
How true :yes:
But there were a few exceptions where this was totally acceptable:
Tenley, Carol, Peggy, Janet, Dorothy, Kristi, Michelle, Sasha and of course Caroline.
For the others it was inaapropriate and cheesy.
ETA: medusa, this is not meant to be serious
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- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
I don't think she does. Mao can do the jump fine. There are videos of her practicing Quad Sal, even.
The problem is that there is not much incentive to do the jump. She simply doesn't like the 3Sal, so she doesn't train it in her programs. A Double Axel with a +1 GOE scores the same.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
If you ever were lucky enough to have seen her skate back in the day you would understand why she was called "Princess" and "Queen of the Ice"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/8063/index.htm
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
BTW, interest in Figure Skating (in America) is definitely declining because of a lack of superstars.
I know many people that used to watch because they liked judging the skaters for themselves and because they LOVED Kwan and/or Cohen.
After the new system was implemented, people still watched because they liked the Sport and the skaters. They saw the Olympics and were cheering for Cohen and ended up appreciating Arakawa very much. It was clear that Arakawa skated the best, so it didn't matter that they didn't understand all of the new numbers.
When the placements are fair, the actual scores don't matter. The last Olympics was pretty lucky in this regard. There weren't any "Wow, wtf, they skated so well but 2 of their jumps were downgraded so they aren't even on the podium??!?!!??" moments.
However, when the 2007 season rolled around and Cohen was not there, fans started becoming bored. I remember people I know watching Nationals and saying "God, Kimmie Meissner is the most boring skater".
Going into Worlds, these people were rooting for Emily Hughes because she was the more interesting American skater. Emily skated a solid LP at Worlds in 2007, landing 5 Triples, but ended up dropping like crazy in the placements because three of her jumps were downgraded. When I explained to them what happened they said "Wow, that's dumb. Her jumps looked fine. She certainly jumps higher than Meissner does."
And then they basically stopped following Figure Skating.
I know many people that used to watch because they liked judging the skaters for themselves and because they LOVED Kwan and/or Cohen.
After the new system was implemented, people still watched because they liked the Sport and the skaters. They saw the Olympics and were cheering for Cohen and ended up appreciating Arakawa very much. It was clear that Arakawa skated the best, so it didn't matter that they didn't understand all of the new numbers.
When the placements are fair, the actual scores don't matter. The last Olympics was pretty lucky in this regard. There weren't any "Wow, wtf, they skated so well but 2 of their jumps were downgraded so they aren't even on the podium??!?!!??" moments.
However, when the 2007 season rolled around and Cohen was not there, fans started becoming bored. I remember people I know watching Nationals and saying "God, Kimmie Meissner is the most boring skater".
Going into Worlds, these people were rooting for Emily Hughes because she was the more interesting American skater. Emily skated a solid LP at Worlds in 2007, landing 5 Triples, but ended up dropping like crazy in the placements because three of her jumps were downgraded. When I explained to them what happened they said "Wow, that's dumb. Her jumps looked fine. She certainly jumps higher than Meissner does."
And then they basically stopped following Figure Skating.
They were 1/8 short at most. Most of Mao's URs, OTOH, I could usually spot in real time with little effort.
So many people complain about the inconsistencies in penalizing URs and edge calls - why does one 1/4 cheat get downgraded when so-and-so's doesn't, why does this person's lip get called when that skater's doesn't? I know I've been guilty of it, too, when my favorite skaters were affected. But really, the best way for these skaters to avoid these calls is to do the jumps correctly. The rule says 1/4 cheat. That means if you cheat your jumps by over, say, 1/8 turn, you leave yourself vulnerable to UR calls, and you're basically at the mercy of the caller. So don't leave room for doubt - make sure your rotation is closer to full than to 3/4.
Likewise, Yuna started getting "!" calls on her flip combo, so this season she removed the +3T that was causing the rollover and made the inside edge more definite on her solo flip. Sure you can complain that others with more egregious lips were getting by, but how does that help you? In the end, all you can do is take care of yourself and take the judgment out of the callers' hands.
That's ridiculous. By that logic, I can argue that Yu-na has a wonderful 3loop because there are clips of her landing gorgeous ones in practice.
Mao's 3 salchow has been MIA for most of her career, and inconsistent the times she's landed them. IN contrast Kim can normally land hers fairly consistent. That right there is a plus mark in Kim's book vs Mao.
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COP has really helped Mao in this regard. Under 6.0 Judges expect you to do all the jumps. For example, Kristi Y. had a lousy salchow was well. But she didn't have the option of leaving it out.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
Meh...I'd put Mao's dislike of the 3salchow on the same level as YuNa's dislike of the 3loop.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
IMHO, what destroyed Mao is her addiction to 3A.
Yes! That's it and all!
