Have you been to any good ice shows lately? | Page 9 | Golden Skate

Have you been to any good ice shows lately?

Kalina said:
Orser himself has only known him for three months.
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:laugh: Apparently some people are not aware that they are supposed to work hard from the day they employed/contracted. So, three months is not enough to made good stuff but it's more than enough to teach the kid male lolita-stripper tricks. Carry on :popcorn:. In fact his performance technically is not that great as you are implying, and video now is available. Vertigo almost looks like a classic masterpiece :biggrin: if you put it in a different window and play together with "Hello, I love you." And my dear, under J-law Hanyu won't get access to an adult sector in a DVD rental shop for at least two more years until he comes 20yo. Now you know. You wish to know how a teen looks proper and gorgeous? Cilck: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UYn_zmhIfY :cool:
 
giulia95 said:
Actually I feel sorry for Hanyu. I’ve red he had to dress up like a girl yesterday , wearing a pink bow, pink shirt and white skirt…than he took off his T-shirt and was naked from the waist up ... then in his new exibition there’s a “stripping” part...

Maybe it’s so funny, but it seems that the new course, the upper skating level he is supposed to reach , is all about to consider him as a sexy teen skater , in order to get the audience excited.

As an adult, I honestly think it’s too much for a kid who was able to move a world championship audience.

Now I’m waiting to see his new SP , hoping that at least in this case the choreographer’s main focus is on something different from sexy movements.
Go Yuzuru!!!
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Do not worry too much. Nobody forced him to take off his shirt..
Maybe, he did not want to wear pink t-T-shirt coz it looked too girly.
"A little stripping" performance is not really a part of the EP.
He takes off the shirt and throws it to audiences right after he finishes performing the EP.
He looked like he enjoyed doing it :rolleye:
 
Kalina, great post!

I agree that Hanyu seems to be still improving despite the change. Good point in mentioning the Vertigo choreography. Query, however, whether it was more just on the mischievous side, when he was 15. Now, that he is no longer a kid, doing that kind of booty stuff, like Kurt choreographed on the commission of Orser, comes across as hoaky and sleazy.

I also wonder how Orser cannot know Hanyu's personality and his strengths when the rest of the world seems to know them pretty well. How can one not? Youtube is plastered with his amazing performances, and where he really soars. The two Russian choreographers who did the Romeo and Juliet choreography didn't have these issues of not knowing Hanyu's personality. Maybe they would be better suited for the job than someone who Orser is directing if Orser doesn't know Hanyu by now. That seems like common sense.

My point is there is no excuse for that garbage EX and Orser really missed the boat when he commissioned it. It should have been as obvious to him as it was to just about everyone who saw it. Let's just say it: Orser screwed up and so did Browning. Aren't they big enough to admit that?

Seriously, someone (and I don't mean Hanyu) should apologize for that garbage.

With Wilson, however, Hanyu will get a decent program. But if he doesn't, what really bothers me is a lot of people are going to say that the best coaches did the best they could do. They will say that the coach/choreographer did not have time to figure out Hanyu's personality. In the present case, I just can't buy that. In the present case, it would be that the coach/choreographer failed. Hanyu is an extraordinary talent, a once in a lifetime phenomenon. If a coach needs a few years to figure that out and what he does well, and doesn't have a clue what he should be skating, s/he should not coaching him.
 
let`s talk said:
Apparently some people are not aware that they are supposed to work hard from the day they employed/contracted. So, three months is not enough to made good stuff but it's more than enough to teach the kid male lolita-stripper tricks. Carry on :popcorn:. In fact his performance technically is not that great as you are implying, and video now is available. Vertigo almost looks like a classic masterpiece :biggrin: if you put it in a different window and play together with "Hello, I love you." And my dear, under J-law Hanyu won't get access to an adult sector in a DVD rental shop for at least two more years until he comes 20yo. Now you know. You wish to know how a teen looks proper and gorgeous? Cilck: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UYn_zmhIfY :cool:
Click to expand...

Apparently some people are just not able to have a civil discussion :biggrin:

phaeljones said:
Kalina, great post!

I agree that Hanyu seems to be still improving despite the change. Good point in mentioning the Vertigo choreography. Query, however, whether it was more just on the mischievous side, when he was 15. Now, that he is no longer a kid, doing that kind of booty stuff, like Kurt choreographed on the commission of Orser, comes across as hoaky and sleazy.

I also wonder how Orser cannot know Hanyu's personality and his strengths when the rest of the world seems to know them pretty well. How can one not? Youtube is plastered with his amazing performances, and where he really soars. The two Russian choreographers who did the Romeo and Juliet choreography didn't have these issues of not knowing Hanyu's personality. Maybe they would be better suited for the job than someone who Orser is directing if Orser doesn't know Hanyu by now. That seems like common sense.

My point is there is no excuse for that garbage EX and Orser really missed the boat when he commissioned it. It should have been as obvious to him as it was to just about everyone who saw it. Let's just say it: Orser screwed up and so did Browning. Aren't they big enough to admit that?

Seriously, someone (and I don't mean Hanyu) should apologize for that garbage.

With Wilson, however, Hanyu will get a decent program. But if he doesn't, what really bothers me is a lot of people are going to say that the best coaches did the best they could do. They will say that the coach/choreographer did not have time to figure out Hanyu's personality. In the present case, I just can't buy that. In the present case, it would be that the coach/choreographer failed. Hanyu is an extraordinary talent, a once in a lifetime phenomenon. If a coach needs a few years to figure that out and what he does well, and doesn't have a clue what he should be skating, s/he should not coaching him.
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I don't think it looked mischievous at 15, it just didn't work, and it if it didn't get the reaction that was expected (making him look older/sexier or whatever that is) then it shouldn't have been there :biggrin: It came out way better the year after that, probably because he'd grown up a bit.
Like you, I don't like his EX, but I don't think a badly choreographed EX is going to be a career-threatening thing for him. Kurt came up with this, and we don't like it: Hanyu apparently does. As long as it's an EX, and he likes it, I don't see the point of complaining too much. I just want to point out that I am not trying to justify either Browning or Orser, I'm not a fan of either of them -- it's just all the conspiracy talk that IMO, at this stage, is ridiculous. Of course he has to get decent competition programs and if he doesn't we'll have reason to doubt; but I really can't believe that just because he's skating that EX, there's already talk of evil Canadian coaches trying to keep him down because Chan has to win the Olympics or Takahashi has to remain Japan's n.1 until Sochi.
Regarding your last paragraph, I probably didn't explain myself clearly (my poor english skills coming in, sorry). His programs, of course, will have to be of a good quality - we couldn't expect anything less. I just don't think that you can be aware of all sides of an artist's character after having known him for a short period of time. It's not a matter of working more or less, it's just the natural course of things. This doesn't mean that they won't be able to create a program that suits him, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't fit him perfectly. Good programs, but not perfect programs. I would get angry if they got completely off target, because that wouldn't be acceptable - but not for a few rough edges, at least not this season.
Bobrin and Bestemianova by the way didn't create his FP from scratch, the music and the basic outline had already been put down by his coach and they worked on that.

I wanted to link Buttle's interview (he talks about Hanyu's SP) but I'm not sure if I have to wait a few more posts before doing that.
 
Kalina said:
Apparently some people are just not able to have a civil discussion :biggrin:
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So, according to you calling people uncivil makes you civil :laugh:. In fact it does not. But I give you the benefit of the doubt.

I just don't think that you can be aware of all sides of an artist's character after having known him for a short period of time. .. This doesn't mean that they won't be able to create a program that suits him, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't fit him perfectly. Good programs, but not perfect programs. ...
Bobrin and Bestemianova by the way didn't create his FP from scratch, the music and the basic outline had already been put down by his coach and they worked on that.
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I doubt that both Orser and Kurt are not professional enough to figure out the skater's needs, style and individuality. Other coaches do it all the time for a much shorter time. It's not like they both have never heard or never seen Hanyu's skating before. If there is no evil agenda on the table as you claim, then they just don't care. Hanyu for them is simply a little detail in their daily routine, some conveyor job that doesn't deserve any special attention. In that case they shouldn't coach him either. The competitive SP that I saw twice in THE ICE is slightly lesser crap than his EX. A collection of false postures as some show tricks. He is shallow there. But we all know that Hanyu is not, at least he can be not. This new SP is neither good nor perfect. And yes, when you are paid, and paid well, you are supposed to do your best, i.e. work perfectly, not just "good".
Btw, Bobrin&Bestemyanova were the ones who opened the deepness in Yuzu skating. The basic outline is what a skater skates. B&B made it HOW he skates. Search youtube if you wish, his training in Moscow is all there. That passion, beautiful arms, wideness in moves, stuff that brought the CHARACTER in his Romeo, is what B&B did. Yuzu team sent him to Moscow for a reason- to get something that he couldn't get at home. Now need to devaluate B&B work with Hanyu. Unless it's your idea of being civil, then suit yourself.
 
Kalina said:
I don't think it looked mischievous at 15, it just didn't work, and it if it didn't get the reaction that was expected (making him look older/sexier or whatever that is) then it shouldn't have been there :biggrin: It came out way better the year after that, probably because he'd grown up a bit.
Like you, I don't like his EX, but I don't think a badly choreographed EX is going to be a career-threatening thing for him. Kurt came up with this, and we don't like it: Hanyu apparently does. As long as it's an EX, and he likes it, I don't see the point of complaining too much. I just want to point out that I am not trying to justify either Browning or Orser, I'm not a fan of either of them -- it's just all the conspiracy talk that IMO, at this stage, is ridiculous. Of course he has to get decent competition programs and if he doesn't we'll have reason to doubt; but I really can't believe that just because he's skating that EX, there's already talk of evil Canadian coaches trying to keep him down because Chan has to win the Olympics or Takahashi has to remain Japan's n.1 until Sochi.
Regarding your last paragraph, I probably didn't explain myself clearly (my poor english skills coming in, sorry). His programs, of course, will have to be of a good quality - we couldn't expect anything less. I just don't think that you can be aware of all sides of an artist's character after having known him for a short period of time. It's not a matter of working more or less, it's just the natural course of things. This doesn't mean that they won't be able to create a program that suits him, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't fit him perfectly. Good programs, but not perfect programs. I would get angry if they got completely off target, because that wouldn't be acceptable - but not for a few rough edges, at least not this season.
Bobrin and Bestemianova by the way didn't create his FP from scratch, the music and the basic outline had already been put down by his coach and they worked on that.

I wanted to link Buttle's interview (he talks about Hanyu's SP) but I'm not sure if I have to wait a few more posts before doing that.
Click to expand...

If Hanyu likes it, he is entitled to it. He does get to choose what he skates. Just saying that most everyone else on the planet has figured out that the EX was garbage. We get to choose what we like and it is fair comment. He may get to choose what he skates, but he doesn't get to choose what other people like.

I never implied that it was a career breaker. Hanyu skates everything, even the garbage, better than anyone else. No one can deny his talent no matter what he skates.

If Orser hadn't figured out Hanyu before he took on the job of coaching him, then he should not have taken on the job. That is basic. This is a podium skater. Expectations are reasonably high. If he doesn't know Hanyu by now, he should be fired or step aside.

Conspiracy theory is garbage. Orser needs Hanyu to do well, and I don't think it a stretch to say that Orser took on Hanyu with the intention of putting him on the top so that his rink will enhance its prestige. Canada is not a one rink town. It is not a stretch to surmise that Orser cares more about himself than he does about Patrick Chan and he isn't going to kill his own career by screwing one of his own skaters. He will do anything he can to put Hanyu on the top. Let's give him that. Where people have issues is in wondering whether he has the ability and judgment to do it, and whether he is a good fit as coach for a skater of Hanyu's temperment.

But no one, including Orser and (this may surprise you) the Canadian public generally wants to see Hanyu skate anything less than his best. That standing ovation he received in Montreal last season after his performance was heartfelt. Once Canada figures out this kid is here training, it is only going to enhance their support of him.
 
I have no intention of devaluating their work, I just said that he went to them with the music and an outline and they worked on that. That's what happened, and IMO they did a excellent job, but it wasn't their job alone. And yes, I'd already seen that video.

Saying that people can't have a civil discussion means just that. Doesn't mean that I said you aren't civil in other matters. Doesn't mean that I am, for that matter :laugh: I just wouldn't ridicule other people's opinions like that. But of course you are free to express yourself as you wish. Let's just agree to disagree.

@phaeljones
I'm sorry, I posted and I didn't see you. Writing in english takes me a long time :)
I was just referring to those who believe the conspiracy theory: I actually agree with what you said and I don't think the Canadian public wishes to see him skate badly, or Orser, Kurt, JSF etc. I remember the standing ovation he received in Quebec. Same with the career breaker thing. I might have gotten carried away while explaining myself, so I don't know if I accidentally offended you, but if that's the case, I'm sorry.
About Orser I don't know much about how he coaches, as I never followed Yuna's career closely nor their breakup after the Olympics. I basically have no preconceptions about him. That may be why I find some of the things I'm reading so baffling.
 
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Kalina said:
Saying that people can't have a civil discussion means just that.
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Calling people uncivil in the context of the discussion means just that either. But of course if name calling is your way to disagree with the opponent, feel free to do that. Btw, no need to repeatedly appologize for your English skills when I am the one who has to google your vocabs. Your English is just fine.

Nobody said that Hanyu's progs last season was B&B work alone. B&B was never even listed as his choreographers. Everyone here knows that. Choosing the music and making a basic outline is not what made Hanyu explode the ice. B&B could figure out what they boy need much faster than Orse&Kurt. Which means one and the same thing- either the said Canadians don't want to work hard with the guy or they don't know how. In both cases they shouldn't coach him.
 
It's always interesting to see folks carry on about an exhibition program... it's not the best thing out there, nor is it the worst, and it's not going to cause anyone to lose or gain ground...

in the words of the Joker: "why so serious?"
 
I, on the other hand, always feel the exhibition programs tell so much about who the skater truly is. They show the moves that skater feels most comfortable with, the music the skater wants to express, and what the skater thinks the audience wants to see. It does affect my perception of a skater, when it turns out he thinks I want to see him interpret some insipid pop song, lip sync, shake his booty or throw his shirt into the audience. Sometimes they even imagine we want some sweaty kid to reach over the boards and give us a smooch. It isn't too serious, it's too hilarious.
 
I think skaters have a good sense to understand that they can present different sides of themselves, depending on the context. Competition vs. Exhibition. And even, Exhibition A vs. Exhibition B, depending on who the audience is. I think it does give insight into a skater's personality (naturally) but wouldn't really go so far as to draw conclusions about how their training is going, what the coaching/choreographic teams are thinking when it comes to competitive programs, etc. Frankly, a lot of skaters come up with their own material and the coaches never even coach it or see it. Not the same level of investment usually, and thus, I think, inappropriate to draw vast conclusions.
 
lcd said:
I think skaters have a good sense to understand that they can present different sides of themselves, depending on the context. Competition vs. Exhibition. And even, Exhibition A vs. Exhibition B, depending on who the audience is. I think it does give insight into a skater's personality ...


I agree with this, and in fact Hanyu chose to present himself at his first Worlds appearance in Nice as the beautiful, passionate, and innocent SWAN skating to “White Legend” EX . This is the clear and unequivocal message HE WANTED to communicate about his personality.
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let`s talk said:
THE ICE Youtube channel uploaded some more videos. Enjoy:
Adelina. Bolero:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5SEboBghQ
Mura. Talking to the Moon:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyJR98pOYUM
Hanyu. Parisienne Walk Ways:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-5Azy4g1o0
and a lot of others, including junior skaters:
www.youtube.com/user/theiceCTV/videos
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links - alot to enjoy there.

Adelina looks so grown up :love: .......now if she can just get over her shyness ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS3Np-yVnq4&feature=plcp

Hope she has a great season.
 
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Saw the ice show/acrobatic show at the Toronto based CNE the other day. Tessa and Scott had a very warm reception from the crowd and skated 3 times in the show. Actually, the trampolinists stole the show in their number towards the end of the show. They were extremely good (2 girls and 1 guy). There is also a pair of jugglers, some break dancers and other skaters that I didn't recognize (court/group numbers) in the show. I highly recommend going and watching this show, it was fantastic.
 
from the sidelines, that is so neat! I've seen pictures from the show and always wanted to go! Maybe I will have to make a vacation to Toronto in time for it one of these years :)

Also speaking of recent ice shows, I'm very excited to be going to the Michael Weiss' show "Ice Champions Live" on Sept. 8! We got on-ice tickets and I can't wait to see Ashley, Mirai, Richard and the others.
 
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