How are the US Juniors viewed?

[silverlake22]

Before Farris can be crowned the American Figure Skating Prince, he will have to finish higher than 16th at US Nationals...something he has yet to accomplish. With regard to Farris being ready to meet his peers, Farris' sore of 218 at the recent JGP event, is well off of the 251 that Hanyu scored at the WC last year.

That being said, Farris has shown a lot of improvement and, if he stays healthy, will be one of the top skaters in the USA in the future.

I think that posters claims were meant to be taken with a grain of salt . As for Farris and the scores, IF he does become the next American prince, it will be in the future, because Evan the current American prince is back for the meantime as is diva Johnny Weir. They will likely suck the air out of the arena up through Sochi and maybe then we will see what happens, giving Brown and Farris and whoever else is in consideration ample time to up their technical content and scoring potential. Plus once a skater gains recognition and puts out some consistently good performances internationally, his scores, particularly the PCS scores, seem to increase drastically, at least that is the general trend. Fernandez, Brezina, Kozuka, and Amodio are examples of this, and if you can do the big jumps this shift just happens faster. Also, Hanyu's score at the WCs was a huge improvement over his GP scores, his score at the final was pretty high, but in his 2 individual events, the numbers were more comparable with Farris' number from Lake Placid.

 

[Bluebonnet]

If I recall Chan was a Worlds Silver medalist (maybe twice??) with no quad and a questionable /unreliable/splatting 3A.

Most of the negativity towards Jason comes from "Chanadians" who seem threatened to the point of paranoia by Jasons superior presentation, charisma and musicality.

It's so funny to read this. What makes you think that Brown will be any threat is beyond me.:think:

When Chan won the World's silver, the gold medalist either had no quad or fell on a quad. That was then. This is now. With the quad value's raising, over a dozen top skaters own it steadily and use it regularly in competitions. "superior presentation, charisma and musicality" can do only that much, not more.

I think Farris will be USA's future. He is technically very strong and artistically sufficient. I'd call Farris a "complete" skater.

As of Jason, he is no doubt wonderful artistically beyond his age. But...

 

[janetfan]

It's so funny to read this. What makes you think that Brown will be any threat is beyond me.:think:

When Chan won the World's silver, the gold medalist either had no quad or fell on a quad. That was then. This is now. With the quad value's raising, over a dozen top skaters own it steadily and use it regularly in competitions. "superior presentation, charisma and musicality" can do only that much, not more.

I think Farris will be USA's future. He is technically very strong and artistically sufficient. I'd call Farris a "complete" skater.

As of Jason, he is no doubt wonderful artistically beyond his age. But...

Yes....see your post sort of proves my point. Most quick to put down Jason are Chan ubers.

You only quoted part of what I wrote and I also said "it will be interesting and fun to see how Jason developes leading towards the 2018 Olympics."

I think it is way too early to write off Jason. And not every skater needs to win the biggest titles to be well liked by fans.

Some skaters can win the biggest titles and be disliked by many fans.

 

[willywonka]

Some skaters can win the biggest titles and be disliked by many fans.

Who? The Tsar of Russia? How dare they!

Who hates Jason Brown? :scratch: I don’t! I LURVVVV him. He has great PCs. He can beat Yuzuru Hanyu, Joshua Farris, Atur Gachinski, Han Yan without triple axels and quads. Happy everyone?

 

[janetfan]

Who? The Tsar of Russia? How dare they!

Who hates Jason Brown? :scratch: I don’t! I LURVVVV him. He has great PCs. He can beat Yuzuru Hanyu, Joshua Farris, Atur Gachinski, Han Yan without triple axels and quads. Happy everyone?

I was happy .....until I watched Adelina's new LP

It appears that the Czarina of Russian choreo has lost her mojo......

I don't care if a skater wins if I can enjoy their skating.

 

[silverlake22]

The only thing about Chan vs. Brown, though, is that at Brown's age, Chan was at least consistently attempting a 3a in his SP and 2 in his FS. He wasn't consistent with the jump and wasn't doing quads yet, but he was at least going for the 3a, and I will add, when he lands that jump, it's beautiful and garners good +GOEs, that has always been the case. Jason hasn't tried a 3a in international competition yet so we don't know how good his 3a is when landed, if it's rotated, etc. all of which make a big difference. Falling on a fully rotated 3a is very different from falling on a badly UR one or not going for it at all, and having a jump that's inconsistent but big, fully rotated, and well-executed when landed is different than being inconsistent with a jump that's inconsistent but not big or consistently rotated even when landed. Does that make sense? I can't say what Brown's 3a is like as I haven't seen it, but I think Patrick's struggles with the 3a hindered him less than some other men who struggle with it like Shawn Sawyer or Adam Rippon...for the reasons I just mentioned.

 

[janetfan]

The only thing about Chan vs. Brown, though, is that at Brown's age, Chan was at least consistently attempting a 3a in his SP and 2 in his FS. He wasn't consistent with the jump and wasn't doing quads yet, but he was at least going for the 3a, and I will add, when he lands that jump, it's beautiful and garners good +GOEs, that has always been the case. Jason hasn't tried a 3a in international competition yet so we don't know how good his 3a is when landed, if it's rotated, etc. all of which make a big difference. Falling on a fully rotated 3a is very different from falling on a badly UR one or not going for it at all, and having a jump that's inconsistent but big, fully rotated, and well-executed when landed is different than being inconsistent with a jump that's inconsistent but not big or consistently rotated even when landed. Does that make sense? I can't say what Brown's 3a is like as I haven't seen it, but I think Patrick's struggles with the 3a hindered him less than some other men who struggle with it like Shawn Sawyer or Adam Rippon...for the reasons I just mentioned.

Chan vs Brown is a figment of somebody's imagination.

Chan is WC and Jason a developing jr skater.

I remember you used to love Christina Gao. I like her too.
It doesn't matter to me if Christina never becomes Natl champ - I will still like her.

 

[silverlake22]

Also, I'm hoping Farris can have a big artistic breakthrough in the new few years, sort of like Abbott has done over the past quadrennial (though I hope he doesn't develop Abbott's inconsistency, but that being said, at his age, Jeremy was nowhere near as strong or consistent a skater as Josh). Anyways, Josh has the potential to be really artistic, and he's already a budding artist, showing so real nice moments, but for now, his style is pretty classic and "safe", which is fine for a 17 year old who is still competing on the junior circuit and growing into his body, but I'd like to see him try some really different kinds of programs in the future. I know Transformers wasn't great, but despite his looks and lines, overall style of skating, I think Josh has the capabilities of pulling off programs not in the classical regime convincingly. Of course, branching out takes a lot of confidence and guts, and can be risky, but I think considering he seems to be pretty solid technically at this point, that could be one of his focus points in the near future.

 

[skateluvr]

Jason is choreographed mostly by Rohene Ward? True or not true? I look at the ponytail and think Rohene. Is this the skater that Jason emulates? I see Weir a bit also in Jason. I recall reading that Rohene could do amazing things but I don't find any evidence on youtube...maybe i did not get beyond the splatfest I watched. I know Rohene was said to do anything in practice, but might have had severe performance anxiety, otherwise he'd be a famous winner. How much of Jason is influenced by Rohene's skating? Slightly OT but are there any videos where Rohene did the amazing things I read he could?

 

[Bluebonnet]

Yes....see your post sort of proves my point. Most quick to put down Jason are Chan ubers.

You only quoted part of what I wrote and I also said "it will be interesting and fun to see how Jason developes leading towards the 2018 Olympics."

I think it is way too early to write off Jason. And not every skater needs to win the biggest titles to be well liked by fans.

It didn't prove anything you wanted to prove. Does it ever accur to you that you have provided the easiest target (maybe that was your intention) for anyone to aim? Well, I like it. It was so absurd and so easy to reply.

The truth hurts sometimes but it is still the truth. No matter what you say or how many names you call, it is still the truth. The same topic has been discussed intensively last year I believe. Jason is wonderful artistically. I've said it numerous times. No one denies his musicality and artistic talent, and no one hates him. How could anyone think that people who are telling the truth hate Jason Brown? Why does "Chan ubers" have to put down Jason Brown? I still cannot make the connection. I did not write off Jason. I could not write off Jason. It's up to him. If Jason brings up his technical level, people, including me, will for sure change their minds. I can assure you this.

Some skaters can win the biggest titles and be disliked by many fans.

It's always been like this that artistic skaters are loved more among skating fans. So I don't understand your meaning of bringing up this?

Plus I hate to bring it up because it really shouldn't matter but we all know it does, but recently Farris has transformed from an awkward shy boy into a strikingly handsome (at least from my point of view) and seemingly very confident young man and I think this will only help him in terms of gaining the support of fans and judges, ala Joubert.

Farris reminds me of young Jeremy Abbott in appearence far away.

 

[silverlake22]

Farris's build is like Abbott but his facial features are more like Joubert IMO. But as he is just 17 his build could still change, he's awfully thin right now and you wonder if it will stay that way. Anyways Abbott is really good looking too, at least I think so, his constant pukey face just distracts from it . I wonder if Jason got a haircut what he would look like...I think he's potentially really handsome in a crunchy jewish boy way but I can't picture him with a short hair do so it's hard to say.

Chan was once a developing junior skater too you know...at a younger age than Jason is now, but everyone peaks at different ages. I just hope that Jason can get the 3a and a quad so that he doesn't end up having already peaked before he turns 18.

Anyways I'm prepared for the 2014 Olympic team to be Johnny, Evan, and Jeremy regardless of if they earn it or not so I don't want to get my hopes up. Hopefully Farris and Brown can make the team in 2018 but who knows, we have wunderkid Nathan Chen who will grow up one of these years and I'm sure some new young hopeful will emerge between now and then like they always seem to.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Farris's build is like Abbott but his facial features are more like Joubert IMO.

That's true. What a handsome young man!

I imagine if Brown cut off his hair, he'd look like a cowboy.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

silverlake, do you think that the USA is likely to get three spots back next season?

 

[janetfan]

It didn't prove anything you wanted to prove.

The truth hurts sometimes .

The "truth" as you mention it is more interesting than anything else you wrote but I am not sure what your idea of the truth is.

Is there a parallel universe here I am not aware of?


I am not a big fan of Jason or juniors as a rule.
I read so many nice things about Jason's skating in the last year I decided to watch a few of his programs.

I like him.....like the way he skates.

Here is some truth for you - it is too soon to predict how Jason's career will turn out.

 

[mskater93]

Jason is choreographed mostly by Rohene Ward? True or not true? I look at the ponytail and think Rohene. Is this the skater that Jason emulates? I see Weir a bit also in Jason. I recall reading that Rohene could do amazing things but I don't find any evidence on youtube...maybe i did not get beyond the splatfest I watched. I know Rohene was said to do anything in practice, but might have had severe performance anxiety, otherwise he'd be a famous winner. How much of Jason is influenced by Rohene's skating? Slightly OT but are there any videos where Rohene did the amazing things I read he could?

Yes, Rohene does most of Jason's choreography. Rohene really could do some amazing things (3Lz CW and CCW anyone? uber flexibility with a full split down and up in the middle of his footwork anyone?) in practice. It is disappointing that either his training habits or his mental toughness couldn't withstand his talent (depends on who you talked to whether it was one or the other).

 

[Bluebonnet]

Is there a parallel universe here I am not aware of?

No, but there are parallel ways of thinking. I don't see sometimes how they are conflicted.

 

[Sylvia]

Slightly OT but are there any videos where Rohene [Ward] did the amazing things I read he could?

My favorite performance is his 2002 Vienna Cup exhibition (reverse spins, layback, clockwise 2A to CCW 2A sequence): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAdIn-NFKhc

Maybe the cleanest short program he ever did in competition? (BIG 3A, 4T+2T, 3Lz): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdcDGJkLpwU

 

[Bluebonnet]

I remember Adam Rippon was so much hyped as the next best thing for US on this board before he went onto Seniors. I believe he had had 3A but not very consistent.

 

[Tonichelle]

I remember Adam Rippon was so much hyped as the next best thing for US on this board before he went onto Seniors. I believe he had had 3A but not very consistent.

I remember that too, going into nationals at 08 I wanted to "see him for myself" when he was in juniors (and won)... I was not impressed lol

 

[silverlake22]

silverlake, do you think that the USA is likely to get three spots back next season?

I think the odds are pretty good with Evan and Johnny coming back, Johnny reportedly landing quads, Jeremy and Evan both have huge PCS so it's just a matter of landing jumps, Dornbush has been going for difficult content and having more success recently, and you can't count Miner out either, or even someone like Farris if he steps up at Nationals. I don't have much faith in Rippon at this point but he could make a comeback of sorts. The way I see it we need a top 5 skater and a top 10 skater on the team for Worlds to have a good chance at 3 spots, and I think Jeremy, Evan, and Johnny are hypothetically capable of being top 5, and Dornbush, Miner, and Farris (maybe Rippon too pending jump status) are capable of a lower top 10 finish. Of course they would all need to skate VERY WELL to manage this, but I do think it's possible.