How can I get better at my two foot spin? I can only do like one rotation because my feet end up separating. Yes my blades are sharpened, no I do not have a private coach (I'm working on getting one but availability is not in my favour). I've had multiple class coaches tell me to keep my feet together in many different areas and it's something I definitely need help with.
How to improve two-foot spin?
- Thread starter Jacesis
- Start date
I'm not much good at spinning either. But here is a trick I have learned that might help a tiny bit.
Practice twizzles first, because they are easier to learn, since both feet and legs do the same thing at once. As you drop into (both) bent knees, in a V position (heels together and toes apart), that drop pushes your feet apart. (It also makes you glide you forwards. It helps if your weight in mostly on your heels.)
Then turn your toes together and heels apart into an inverted V. Rise by straightening your knees. That rises pulls then feet together again. (It also keeps you gliding forwards. It helps if you weight is further forward, but don't let your toepicks touch.) I used to think I needed to strengthen the muscles a lot that push the legs apart and pull them back together to do twizzles, because I tried to keep my knees too straight. But the muscles needed to drop in a controlled fashion into bent knees, and to rise by straightening them again, are already strong, because you use them when you walk.
Practice twizzles to get the hang of using knee bend falls and rises to push the feet apart and back together, until they feel easy and natural. You don't need to pause between dropping to push out, and pulling to pull in. It works best if you don't, and make the whole sequence continuous.
Perhaps it would help to find a video of someone doing twizzles gracefully, and copy it.
Then transition to one foot twizzles (sometimes called half twizzles or pumps), where one knee bends and rises, but the other knee stays straight, while its leg (and foot) goes out and back in.
One way to start a two foot spin is to start by doing it out of a one foot swizzle (or pivot- see below). Coming out of the half twizzle (or pivot) places you in that inverted V, with the knee muscles already activated to hold you in that inverted V position. You can start spinning with the knees still partly bent, and straightening helps you keep the knee muscles activated to hold you in that position more strongly.
Does that make any sense?
Again, perhaps it would help to find a video of someone doing two foot spins gracefully, and copy it.
Different coaches teach spins very different ways, and there are also different types of spin. Some people very briefly initially point the foot that stayed straight lightly into the ice, though most of your weight would stay further back, to stop that side of your body from moving fowards. And some leave one or both toe picks lightly pointed into the ice during the entire spin.
You could transition to pivots instead of half twizzles, where the same happens as during half twizzles, but the straight leg doesn't glide, because the foot attached to it points the toe pick into the ice. But if you leave a toe pick pointed into the ice during a spin, it drags and slows you down.
In principle the spin that lets you spin the longest, would be to have the part of the blades that touches the ice be the "spin rocker" (see below), rather than the middle of your blades, and you certainly wouldn't want to have only the toe pick(s) touch.
If you don't understand "spin rocker": Most of a figure skating blade has a gradual forwards to backwards curvature. But the most forwards part of the blade - perhaps starting with the ball of your foot, perhaps farther forwards, depending on the blade - is more curved than the part behind it. The forwards part is called the spin rocker.
Practice twizzles first, because they are easier to learn, since both feet and legs do the same thing at once. As you drop into (both) bent knees, in a V position (heels together and toes apart), that drop pushes your feet apart. (It also makes you glide you forwards. It helps if your weight in mostly on your heels.)
Then turn your toes together and heels apart into an inverted V. Rise by straightening your knees. That rises pulls then feet together again. (It also keeps you gliding forwards. It helps if you weight is further forward, but don't let your toepicks touch.) I used to think I needed to strengthen the muscles a lot that push the legs apart and pull them back together to do twizzles, because I tried to keep my knees too straight. But the muscles needed to drop in a controlled fashion into bent knees, and to rise by straightening them again, are already strong, because you use them when you walk.
Practice twizzles to get the hang of using knee bend falls and rises to push the feet apart and back together, until they feel easy and natural. You don't need to pause between dropping to push out, and pulling to pull in. It works best if you don't, and make the whole sequence continuous.
Perhaps it would help to find a video of someone doing twizzles gracefully, and copy it.
Then transition to one foot twizzles (sometimes called half twizzles or pumps), where one knee bends and rises, but the other knee stays straight, while its leg (and foot) goes out and back in.
One way to start a two foot spin is to start by doing it out of a one foot swizzle (or pivot- see below). Coming out of the half twizzle (or pivot) places you in that inverted V, with the knee muscles already activated to hold you in that inverted V position. You can start spinning with the knees still partly bent, and straightening helps you keep the knee muscles activated to hold you in that position more strongly.
Does that make any sense?
Again, perhaps it would help to find a video of someone doing two foot spins gracefully, and copy it.
Different coaches teach spins very different ways, and there are also different types of spin. Some people very briefly initially point the foot that stayed straight lightly into the ice, though most of your weight would stay further back, to stop that side of your body from moving fowards. And some leave one or both toe picks lightly pointed into the ice during the entire spin.
You could transition to pivots instead of half twizzles, where the same happens as during half twizzles, but the straight leg doesn't glide, because the foot attached to it points the toe pick into the ice. But if you leave a toe pick pointed into the ice during a spin, it drags and slows you down.
In principle the spin that lets you spin the longest, would be to have the part of the blades that touches the ice be the "spin rocker" (see below), rather than the middle of your blades, and you certainly wouldn't want to have only the toe pick(s) touch.
If you don't understand "spin rocker": Most of a figure skating blade has a gradual forwards to backwards curvature. But the most forwards part of the blade - perhaps starting with the ball of your foot, perhaps farther forwards, depending on the blade - is more curved than the part behind it. The forwards part is called the spin rocker.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
She's learning a two foot spin and having problems with it. Twizzles especially one foot ones are not the answer and are more advanced. I mentioned the inverted V to her which can be done w/o all this twizzle stuff.I'm not much good at spinning either. But here is a trick I have learned that might help a tiny bit.
Practice twizzles first, because they are easier to learn, since both feet and legs do the same thing at once. As you drop into (both) bent knees, in a V position (heels together and toes apart), that drop pushes your feet apart. (It also makes you glide you forwards. It helps if your weight in mostly on your heels.)
Then turn your toes together and heels apart into an inverted V. Rise by straightening your knees. That rises pulls then feet together again. (It also keeps you gliding forwards. It helps if you weight is further forward, but don't let your toepicks touch.) I used to think I needed to strengthen the muscles a lot that push the legs apart and pull them back together to do twizzles, because I tried to keep my knees too straight. But the muscles needed to drop in a controlled fashion into bent knees, and to rise by straightening them again, are already strong, because you use them when you walk.
Practice twizzles to get the hang of using knee bend falls and rises to push the feet apart and back together, until they feel easy and natural. You don't need to pause between dropping to push out, and pulling to pull in. It works best if you don't, and make the whole sequence continuous.
Perhaps it would help to find a video of someone doing twizzles gracefully, and copy it.
Then transition to one foot twizzles (sometimes called half twizzles or pumps), where one knee bends and rises, but the other knee stays straight, while its leg (and foot) goes out and back in.
One way to start a two foot spin is to start by doing it out of a one foot swizzle (or pivot- see below). Coming out of the half twizzle (or pivot) places you in that inverted V, with the knee muscles already activated to hold you in that inverted V position. You can start spinning with the knees still partly bent, and straightening helps you keep the knee muscles activated to hold you in that position more strongly.
Does that make any sense?
Again, perhaps it would help to find a video of someone doing two foot spins gracefully, and copy it.
Different coaches teach spins very different ways, and there are also different types of spin. Some people very briefly initially point the foot that stayed straight lightly into the ice, though most of your weight would stay further back, to stop that side of your body from moving fowards. And some leave one or both toe picks lightly pointed into the ice during the entire spin.
You could transition to pivots instead of half twizzles, where the same happens as during half twizzles, but the straight leg doesn't glide, because the foot attached to it points the toe pick into the ice. But if you leave a toe pick pointed into the ice during a spin, it drags and slows you down.
In principle the spin that lets you spin the longest, would be to have the part of the blades that touches the ice be the "spin rocker" (see below), rather than the middle of your blades, and you certainly wouldn't want to have only the toe pick(s) touch.
If you don't understand "spin rocker": Most of a figure skating blade has a gradual forwards to backwards curvature. But the most forwards part of the blade - perhaps starting with the ball of your foot, perhaps farther forwards, depending on the blade - is more curved than the part behind it. The forwards part is called the spin rocker.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2022
Just go with @Ic3Rabbit 's simple advice about turning your toes in (it will take some effort to hold them there, but it works). Don't worry about any more complicated system that is more than you need to know or attempt.
Do you mean twizzles or swizzles?
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2022
Must mean swizzles, from the description?
Ic3rabbit didn't describe an entry. I think that providing an entry that creates a spinning motion would make it possible to spin much longer.
Oops. I meant swizzles. I've been trying to work on twizzles a bit following a coach's instructions, and for some reason the "twizzle" word was still in my brain.
You don't consider that entering a two foot spin from a half swizzle would be much easier than, say, from a forward pivot, or a forward two foot slalom? (Because that would turn forwards momentum into spin in a relatively easy way.) I certainly find them so. E.g., not everyone can develop much turning power & speed in a pivot position, or from forward two foot slaloms. (Because fast pivots require supporting your weight initially on a deeply bent knee, therefore requires a lot abdominal muscle strength. So would spinning fast out of a two foot slalom.
Trying to keep spinning long before you have developed strong abdominal muscles and other core muscles would be fairly hard, no matter how you enter. I assumed the o.p. hasn't developed those muscles much yet, because if the o.p. had strong abdominal and other core muscles, it would be relatively easy to hold the feet together. You cannot assume all beginners have the muscle development that elite athletes have.
Do you disagree with that?
P.S. You can also create spin by transferring angular momentum, from raised arm and upper body rotations, to the waist and lower body (a land dance isolation exercise), but those aren't entries my coaches have favored. They favor keeping a relatively still and upright upper body. A shame - initiating spin from those motions feels like the natural way to move.
Oops. I meant swizzles. I've been trying to work on twizzles a bit following a coach's instructions, and for some reason the "twizzle" word was still in my brain.
You don't consider that entering a two foot spin from a half swizzle would be much easier than, say, from a forward pivot, or a forward two foot slalom? (Because that would turn forwards momentum into spin in a relatively easy way.) I certainly find them so. E.g., not everyone can develop much turning power & speed in a pivot position, or from forward two foot slaloms. (Because fast pivots require supporting your weight initially on a deeply bent knee, therefore requires a lot abdominal muscle strength. So would spinning fast out of a two foot slalom.
Trying to keep spinning long before you have developed strong abdominal muscles and other core muscles would be fairly hard, no matter how you enter. I assumed the o.p. hasn't developed those muscles much yet, because if the o.p. had strong abdominal and other core muscles, it would be relatively easy to hold the feet together. You cannot assume all beginners have the muscle development that elite athletes have.
Do you disagree with that?
P.S. You can also create spin by transferring angular momentum, from raised arm and upper body rotations, to the waist and lower body (a land dance isolation exercise), but those aren't entries my coaches have favored. They favor keeping a relatively still and upright upper body. A shame - initiating spin from those motions feels like the natural way to move.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
First of all, the person knows how to enter the spin, they just don't know how to keep their feet together while spinning hence what I provided for them. And no one presumed that all beginners have the muscle development of an elite athlete, nothing that has been said presumed that by anyone here, and I know how to do all this and how it works b/c I was an elite skater and now a pro.
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