I Have Never Missed Michelle More Than I Do Now

[Mathman]

PS. Rgirl, speaking of careful reading, here's what I think might have led to the problems that we had on this thread.

The title of the thread was not, "Oh, how I miss Michelle!" Rather, the thread carried the title, "I have never missed Michelle more than I do NOW," and it was posted in the Worlds folder.

Some people might reasonably have felt that "now" means, "now that I have seen the crappy performances that the other ladies inflicted on us." So not everybody took it as a Michelle-fest, and at least one thought that this made other skaters (read Sasha) fair game.

Group dynamics, eh?

L.

 

[Rgirl]

My Official "I've Never Missed Michelle as Much..." Post

Hey, MM,
I haven't seen Kimmie's exhib yet. Got it on tape (I HOPE!), so I'll get back to you, hopefully with something!

******************
So Kyla and All,
If I would have looked in on this thread the other night given either (a) the way things are now, or (more likely) (b) after about half a ton of sleep, plus 24 hours, I would have posted the following:

I didn't like Michelle's skating until '03 when she did "Aranjuez," and then I was just thrilled with the way she started moving so much "bigger" and more "beyond herself." Her FW sequences are the best examples of what I mean.

Michelle may not be my favorite skater, but I can certainly relate to really enjoying an athlete or creative performer who only has a certain amount of time during which he/she can physically do what it is you so enjoy. There's no doubt a word for the kind of love one has for a really transcendant artistic performer--you know, like agape love, familial love, erotic love, etc. (there's a good example in The English Patient)--and if I weren't so lazy I'd try to find it. Anyway, it sounds like that's the kind of love many of you have for Michelle--love of her for the way she moves you with her skating, heart, and soul. I don't have that kind of love for any performers at present, but I have in the past. Besides, you can always relate it to other kinds of love.

I kind of feel as if I'm at something like a memorial, but not because of a death, but rather because someone whose creative work you love is changing and no one knows how the change is going to play out. So it seems like a memorial for what was a certainty for almost a decade because until Michelle settles into whatever the next phase of her life is going to be, even if it's four more years of eligible skating, at least until next season, it's all uncertainty.

I feel bad for those going through it. There are so few things in life we feel we can count on so when you've found something, especially a person, who has been such a certainty for providing joy in your life for so long, I can relate to the feelings even if I don't feel the same way about the same person.

OTOH, for myself, I don't think there's anything or anyone we can count on. But then, after you watch two 100-story buildings fall down with 3,000 people inside... And I haven't seen anything compared to probably 90% of the world.

Sorry, didn't mean to get morbid. I just wanted to say I can understand the frustration. I can even understand wanting to strike out at certain skaters you don't like. It's very human. Kind of a "Why should she who didn't deserve get to and one who has proven herself deserving over and over not get to? Why did her body have to fail her this year?" I understand it; I just think there are forums other than this where venting all that is appropriate.

Finally--and I hope this comes out right--Michelle and her fans are so lucky. Even at her and your worst moments this season, both Michelle and fans are so very, very fortunate. I know, way to come in and ruin the feeling, but it's true. I won't even qualify it with "IMO." If anybody doesn't understand why I would say this, Kyla's a nurse. She'll know.

Of course I hope for more of the kind of good fortune both Michelle and her fans want. But really, think about how things have been for Michelle since her first senior Worlds. Think of the skating! Year in and year out! Injuries, sure, but nothing to keep her off the ice at crucial moments. In figure skating, man, that is rare!

And you can't say you haven't had a lot of interesting things to talk about, nor do I think there will be any shortage of even more interesting things to talk about as you all watch for what Michelle will do. I assume she'll be skating at Marshall's--yes? I certainly hope so. Even if she does a watered down version of the LP she was going to use this year, I'm still dying to see it.

Rgirl

 

[Rgirl]

PS. Rgirl, speaking of careful reading, here's what I think might have led to the problems that we had on this thread.

The title of the thread was not, "Oh, how I miss Michelle!" Rather, the thread carried the title, "I have never missed Michelle more than I do NOW," and it was posted in the Worlds folder.

Some people might reasonably have felt that "now" means, "now that I have seen the crappy performances that the other ladies inflicted on us." So not everybody took it as a Michelle-fest, and at least one thought that this made other skaters (read Sasha) fair game.

Group dynamics, eh?

A mod who reads minds! Group dynamics, for sure, man, and also, as I was thinking, semantics.

Hey! Maybe a grad student in something like psychology will do his or her PhD dissertation on something like the way group dynamics affect how positive or negative the posts are at various points in time as the thread develops. It would need a good pithy yet wordy title, but at least she (gotta be a woman) could use your favorite subject, applied statistics!

I'm being mean. Seriously, what scares me is I bet somebody's already done it. I bet tons of grad students are doing their grad work on how people interface with the internet and each other.

Let's see, hmm. How about "The effect of skating fan dynamics on the positive or negative post content and member interacti..." No. How about "A psychological profile of members of a figure skating forum and its effects..." Eww. No way! Like I said, I'm sure somebody's already done a bunch of them.

Hey MM! YOU could offer to help them do the statistics!

I better go now.

R

 

[Rgirl]

I disagree. For four years, it has been consistently drummed that no 3/3s means no OGM; that MK couldn't win because she didn't have a 3/3; and that one reason why Irina would win is that she could do them. After Olys, there were articles saying how MK easily could have won it -- one article said that she could have done better "with a pulled groin muscle and a buffalo on her back). (and MK should be praised for her refusal to "buy into" that line of speculation) I don't think that Michelle -- and the other skaters that she was referring to -- are out of touch with the NJS, when they are saying what other commentators have been saying for years -- including the years of the CoP.

Interesting POV, Attyfan. Let me get back to you on that one, like when I have a better chance of my brain working.

Rgirl

 

[nymkfan51]

Thank you for your posts Rgirl ... you have summed it up rather well, I think.

I know for me, that my hardest problem is letting go. Michelle's skating has been such a bright spot in my life (especially the last 6 years) ... I won't go into detail (thank God! LOL) ... but there have been so many negatives in my life the last several years, and watching Michelle has at times been my haven ... the only place I could go to and feel pure joy. I had so many hopes for this past season ... I kept thinking the joy of it would be enough to last me for a long while. So with each piece of bad news, the frustrations and sorrow just kept growing. Finally realizing she would not skate at all was the last nail in the coffin for me. It has taken me this many weeks since the Olympics to finally be able to deal with it.
What I know in my heart is that I, and other MK fans, have been extremely lucky. We have had so many precious moments that she has given us ... memories that can never be erased. She has cemented her place in figure skating history, is loved by millions, regardless of the medals or placements ... and she is a beautiful, talented, delightful ... and very rich young woman! She has a life ahead of her to do just about whatever she pleases. My wish for her is that she get healthy and enjoy the life she has made for herself. My only other wish is that we get to see her for many years to come. I can't imagine a world where she is not skating.

 

[Mathman]

... but there have been so many negatives in my life the last several years, and watching Michelle has at times been my haven ... the only place I could go to and feel pure joy.... I can't imagine a world where she is not skating.

And there you have it. When they announce her name, all the troubles of the world melt (like lemon drops), and the feeling comes over you of, "third star on the right and straight on till morning."

Costume designer Jeff Billings once said about Kristi Yamaguchi's "Doop-doop" outfit, "I want the audience to be smiling before she even strikes her opening pose."

When Michelle takes the ice -- competiton, exhibition, COI, cheesefest -- the first thing she does (watch for it next time, LOL) is look up into the audience and say, "It's all right, Mathman, here I am.

"Now, let's go through our 4-step program, OK?

"1. Grab your coat.

"2. Don't forget your hat.

"3. Leave your worries on the doorstep.

"4. Direct your feet....to the sunny side of the street!" ♫♪

 

[Mathman]

Let's see, hmm. How about "The effect of skating fan dynamics on the positive or negative post content and member interacti..." No. How about "A psychological profile of members of a figure skating forum and its effects..." Eww. No way! Like I said, I'm sure somebody's already done a bunch of them.

Hey MM! YOU could offer to help them do the statistics!

I already have all of my students working on trying to explain the CoP to me.

 

[kyla2]

RGirl and Mathman

Somw wonderful posts and I have really enjoyed them. It's at times like this that I truly appreciate this forum. There are some intelligent and mature people on this sitw who can talk figure skating like few on the planet.

 

[mzheng]

Still, I wonder who "all these skaters" are who are surprised that Shizuka's LP could win the OGM? Of course, we all hang around people who tend to think like we do--that's why we like them, because they're so intelligent, lol--so it's probably only natural that her skating coworkers, friends, and acquaintances have opinions similar to Michelle's.

The skating comunity is a very tight circuls. You heard things all along from skaters you know or trained with. Or even skaters' parents. I thought she was trying to talk the sense to those ppl (skaters included) around her, who talked to her, her parents about her missed this Olympics.....I read plenty of the same thought at FSU right after Ladies LP at Olympics, they are not from ppl around her or her parents....and even Bob Costa said the similar comments in the wrapup of Olympics interview......Thought she had the right attitude and maturity to think she could be falling over all the place.

 

[mzheng]

BTW, someone mentioned Miki Ando regressing - did anyone else notice that she began to have consistency issues when she started to skate with more maturity? It's as though she hasn't been able to balance jumping and artistry yet. I think she has so much potential, and hopefully next season will be better for her.

I think it could be puberty monster. If only 5 pounds difference, your jump are throw off. The girls during growing spurt usually need trainning with very good technique coach, he knows how to adjust your jump almost weekly basis. Little by little, but never in a week, you lost your triples completely because of your weight suddenly increased 2 or 3 pounds, or your height increase 1/2 inch.

 

[Ogre Mage]

Beyond all the great things she did on the ice, I miss the feeling of serenity that watching a Michelle program gave me. She always looked so strong, so solid and so beautiful. Sometimes she was spectacular but even when she wasn't, you could count on her 90% of the time to come through with a solid performance. I felt very comfortable watching her. This was different from watching my other favorite, Sasha, who I always worried was on the brink of disaster, though in her brilliant moments she was like nothing else.

That said, I watched figure skating before Michelle came on the scene and I will be watching it when she has retired. One cannot stop the march of time. At this point, I am more concerned with the general state of the sport which has more to do with $peedy and Co. than MK.

 

[R.D.]

I think people who like to watch someone like Cohen just need to get over the perfection junk by now. Just expect her to fall/mess up and enjoy the positives of the program. Can't be so hard...can it??

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If I spilled out my theory of Michelle and the family, I would be banished by the Kwan crowd so I keep my mouth shut while telling the publisher to only publish the theory after my death.

Joe

 

[kyla2]

Joe

LOL!!!!! But seriously, in the scheme of things Michelle's parents are wonderful and I have alot of admiration for them. It is a very fine line to walk: wanting your child to win the OGM, investing heavily financially to achieve this goal, and yet wanting them to be healthy, happy and well rounded. I think they have done the best they could under the circumstances and have always let Michelle ultimately decide.

 

[antmanb]

LOL!!!!! But seriously, in the scheme of things Michelle's parents are wonderful and I have alot of admiration for them. It is a very fine line to walk: wanting your child to win the OGM, investing heavily financially to achieve this goal, and yet wanting them to be healthy, happy and well rounded. I think they have done the best they could under the circumstances and have always let Michelle ultimately decide.

Really i've heard a lot of stuff about Danny Kwan being about as bad as all the worlds worst skatemoms put together...there's also many a theory that it was papa kwan who was behind the split with Frank Carol.

Ant <should i be ducking and running now?!>

 

[Mathman]

When it comes to Michelle, there are lots of "theories," few facts.

 

[antmanb]

When it comes to Michelle, there are lots of "theories," few facts.

I know, i know, but with the season more or less over (except for the one cheesefest) we have to start the off season theorising, rehashing of past results etc etc!

But i did hear the Danny Kwan being the one behind the break up with Frank being corroborated by reasonably reliable sources...but lik eyou say unless your surname is Kwan or Carol it is just a theory!

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

LOL!!!!! But seriously, in the scheme of things Michelle's parents are wonderful and I have alot of admiration for them. It is a very fine line to walk: wanting your child to win the OGM, investing heavily financially to achieve this goal, and yet wanting them to be healthy, happy and well rounded. I think they have done the best they could under the circumstances and have always let Michelle ultimately decide.

I'll preface this with Kwan is my all time favorite skater but.....

Why split with Frank just before the Olympics? IMO, there was nothing to gain.

Why start on the parade of missing the GPs? and have no problems with the Cheesefests?

Why do the Marshall's phone in when her body wasn't ready for it?

Why the fuss over getting to the Olympics with no practice for months?

At this point I will not go any further and it is all JMO.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

I'll preface this with Kwan is my all time favorite skater but.....

Why split with Frank just before the Olympics? IMO, there was nothing to gain.

I'll play! I'll play! (when do i not play i hear you all cry!) And i will warn that everything that i'm about to write is pure wild speculation unless otherwise stated!! Aside from my Danny being behind the split thoery and it being a really stupid idea, there is another theory too. Kwan was going for the 3/3 in the SLC season. Frank was/is renowned for not letting his skaters put things into their program until they're something like 80% (remeber the articles that kwan's success rate on the 3A in the 96 season was 60% and frank didn't want her to risk it in competition?) so maybe frank was putting his foot down about putting the 3/3 in - he's always been fairly blinkered about Kwan's need to up the technical assuming her presentation would always beat greater technical skates from less "artistic skaters" so maybe kwan/camp kwan said - no you're wrong this season she needs the 3/3 to win and the way to appraoch the season could not be reconciled? I think either way Kwan was not a happy camper and she is very loyal to her family, i think she may have been caught in the cross fire that season and the person who was most badly affected by it all was Kwan herself.

Why start on the parade of missing the GPs? and have no problems with the Cheesefests?

Wasn't she contractually obliged to do the Cheesefests? That would explain those. I think her reasons for missing the GP were genuine every time - the first time she didn't know if she wanted to carry on skating, then she felt it best to save her body for the last go at the Olympics. Whether or not you think those reasons were valid or true, those were the ones she gave and i personally think she was telling the truth at the time...and now having seen the injuries this year i also think she was right and had she gone out doing all GPs her competitive career might have been over in 2004.

Why do the Marshall's phone in when her body wasn't ready for it?

Cos Shep said - you know what honey, you could go out there and sweep the ice with your *** for five minutes and you'd still win. No-one's seen you skate yet this season and your sponsors will be happier if you go out there and win America's Skating Idol...

Why the fuss over getting to the Olympics with no practice for months?

She wanted to go to the Olympics so badly and it meant that much to her that she had to give it every last shot or she'd always live in regret? The reports are that she was in reasonable shape and had her triples back and was doing good run throughs...knowing what we do know about the Ladies competition in Torino she'd have ahd a shot at gold if she was healthy.

Haven't you ever wanted something so badly you'd even risk doing it injured? Hell i've even turned up for a skating lesson with a twisted ankle because i really wanted to carry on practising...and that was just my weekly lesson. I've managed to delude myself into thinking everythig is fine when it isn't just because i wanted to do something/go somewhere/not let someone down.

Ant

 

[attyfan]

Joesitz -- I'll play also, but I can't seem to get multiple quotes in boxes, so:

"I'll preface this with Kwan is my all time favorite skater but.....

Why split with Frank just before the Olympics? IMO, there was nothing to gain."

Frank was quoted as telling Michelle, when she told him that she wanted to go on her own that "I haven't changed". IMO, as a skater goes from 12 to 22, the coach should change. Seriously, while it is possible that there are other deep reasons (need for 3/3, as antmarb suggested; a need to end her status as favorite; I read an article somewhere citing a psychologist's study at the end of '02, saying a lot of people made major changes -- such as marriage or divorce -- in their life after 9/11 -- it was a way of taking back control), it is also possible that splitting with Frank was simply a 21 year old making a stupid decision -- which also is not uncommon.

"Why start on the parade of missing the GPs? and have no problems with the Cheesefests?"

The cheesefests are fundraisers for the USFSA, so they probably bust their buns to secure her presence. She's gotten flack for years for "not letting the younger skaters have a turn" -- so she let them have a turn (did the GPs do Alissa Cziny any harm?) -- and gets flack for it. By showing up

"Why do the Marshall's phone in when her body wasn't ready for it?"

Have you ever been seriously ill or injured? I know when I was recovering from my heart attack, it became very important to get back some confidence in my body -- so I could handle a twinge without heading to the emergency room. I think she needed to try to "get back to normal". Since there were those who accused her of faking, she might have wanted to show that her injury was genuine.

"Why the fuss over getting to the Olympics with no practice for months?"

Apparently, she had been practicing everything she could for months. Also, she wasn't asking for anything that Todd Eldredge didn't seek in '92, and wasn't planning on doing anything differently from what S/Z did in Torino or Elvis in '98.

At this point I will not go any further and it is all JMO.

Joe