Insole shape difference with brands?

[Vladik]

Yet another post from me, I hope this isn’t getting too annoying. I like asking questions about boots!


What is the difference in boot shape between Edea, Jackson, and Risport?

I skate in Risport and only really have experience with that. I’ve heard Jackson are the widest, and apparently Edea are pretty slim and “pointy”?

I’m also curious about not only the difference in length and width of the insole, but the height of them/height of the heel. Does it differ?

I’m asking this because I’ve noticed all my friends with different boots to me, or some even the same, experience very varied, different pain. I don’t experience any pain whilst skating - but when I hit around the 3 hour mark of skating, and take my boots off, it hurts really bad. It’s not a concern for me, because I have no pain up to that, and 3 hours skating is of course a lot so it’s understandable it’ll hurt. What I’m curious about is the placement of the pain.

For me, it’s only my heels that hurt, and occasionally my arches. No toe pain or anything. However, with some of my friends (with the same or different boots), they don’t experience heel pain, and instead experience things like toe pain and ankle pain. I assume for those friends who wear the same boot as me and experience different pain, it’s a difference in foot shape. But for those who wear different brands, I guess it could be a combination of difference in foot shape and brand.

If I’m experiencing heel pain would that be better resolved with a lower or higher heel? Or is that just a common problem after skating for so long?

It does however concern me with my friends however, who experience toe pain after about 5 minutes of skating. (If any of you guys have any advice or recommendations for them, would be much appreciated so I can pass it on).

But yes, is there a difference in insole shape, or size amongst brands? As well as the heel and other factors? Thanks! I know people can get custom insoles made as I’ve seen them online from places like Everglides!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

If we tried to answer all you asked (if it's possible), we'd write a book. I have 30+ years of experience with these things and it's not as easy and explaining on a skate forum, really (and I say that nicely, not trying to be rude at all).

Quickly though, and I thought we covered this in multiple other threads: Yes, every boot is different, every brand is different, which means with each cut being different: the insole is different. Also, boot heels vary in height etc, blades differ in height, picks etc.
It's not cut and dry and easy or quick to explain LOL!

 

[Vladik]

If we tried to answer all you asked (if it's possible), we'd write a book. I have 30+ years of experience with these things and it's not as easy and explaining on a skate forum, really (and I say that nicely, not trying to be rude at all).

Quickly though, and I thought we covered this in multiple other threads: Yes, every boot is different, every brand is different, which means with each cut being different: the insole is different. Also, boot heels vary in height etc, blades differ in height, picks etc.
It's not cut and dry and easy or quick to explain LOL!

Hahah! Sorry about all this!! I saw another post which said Edea have really low heels or something, I didn’t even know heel height was different amongst brands!!! Just had to ask about it.

Thank you!

 

[Elija]

Hahah! Sorry about all this!! I saw another post which said Edea have really low heels or something, I didn’t even know heel height was different amongst brands!!! Just had to ask about it.

Thank you!

Think edea are on the higher side actually. As far as I know, Jackson and edea have (generally) higher heals, risport and bit lower and riedell lower again.

 

[tstop4me]

Think edea are on the higher side actually. As far as I know, Jackson and edea have (generally) higher heals, risport and bit lower and riedell lower again.

But yes, is there a difference in insole shape, or size amongst brands? As well as the heel and other factors? Thanks! I know people can get custom insoles made as I’ve seen them online from places like Everglides!

Yes, Edeas have relatively higher heels than other boots. And Vladik, it gets even more complicated, because there are two heel heights: the external heel height (outside the boot that you can readily see) and the internal heel height (inside the boot that you can't see).

Similarly, the boot shape is more complicated than just the insole shape. At one time, the periphery of the uppers closely followed the periphery of the sole. Not necessarily anymore. In some boots the uppers overhang the sole substantially. So now you can't estimate fit simply by pulling out the insole and standing on it. And then we need to consider the full complex 3D shapes of the boot and foot. Lot's of variables to consider.

 

[Vladik]

Think edea are on the higher side actually. As far as I know, Jackson and edea have (generally) higher heals, risport and bit lower and riedell lower again.

Oh wow, thank you so much! Must’ve got my info mixed up lol. It’s tough to keep up!

 

[Vladik]

Yes, Edeas have relatively higher heels than other boots. And Vladik, it gets even more complicated, because there are two heel heights: the external heel height (outside the boot that you can readily see) and the internal heel height (inside the boot that you can't see).

Similarly, the boot shape is more complicated than just the insole shape. At one time, the periphery of the uppers closely followed the periphery of the sole. Not necessarily anymore. In some boots the uppers overhang the sole substantially. So now you can't estimate fit simply by pulling out the insole and standing on it. And then we need to consider the full complex 3D shapes of the boot and foot. Lot's of variables to consider.

My God. There really is a lot more to it than I had initially thought.

Think I’m just going to leave this in the hands of my fitter at Everglides this May/April. Too much for me to take in lol.

Thank you so much!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

My God. There really is a lot more to it than I had initially thought.

Think I’m just going to leave this in the hands of my fitter at Everglides this May/April. Too much for me to take in lol.

Thank you so much!

This is exactly what I was trying to get at in my first post upthread LOL! Too much and complicated stuff to explain, takes many years to learn.

 

[sk8dreamzzzz]

I truly believe figure skates would benefit from an "ergonomic" last like Bont roller skates (with some adjustments, obvs). Since we don't have many different boot lasts, a lot of people will have pain when their foot is trying shape itself to fit the boot.

 

[Vladik]

This is exactly what I was trying to get at in my first post upthread LOL! Too much and complicated stuff to explain, takes many years to learn.

Wayyy too much! Hey, I’ll get the hang of it someday!!

Also a little update on the boot situation if you’re interested. I was chatting to one of the skate techs at my local pro shop and he said my current boots are suitable for my level and I probably just wasn’t tying them tight enough.

I tie them properly and extremely tight, my hands and fingers are covered in callouses lol.

Keep in mind this is also the same pro skate shop that have genuinely told me and my friends in their own words, “We’re not very good or reliable at figure skate boot fittings, so you should probably go somewhere more knowledgeable and advanced for that”.
They’re great for sharpenings and selling boots, just not for fittings. They do both figure skates and hockey, but more hockey stuff for sure.

Either way, they’ve ordered me in a pair of Jackson Debut to try which two of the skate techs said would be good for me as it’s sort of the next boot up from my current, whereas a different skate tech there today said they’d be way too advanced as they’re for doubles. He also said because I’m in Risport now, I shouldn’t change brand. Basically he doesn’t think they’d be suitable for me as too advanced. Very confused on what to do now. It’s kind of thrown me off track a bit. On an even more negative note, my boots support is getting worse day by day. Yikes!

Again, sorry for all the posts, was planning on stopping posts as I feel I’m really getting irritating now lol, but after what I’ve been told today, I’m sosososo confused and thrown off track.

 

[tstop4me]

Weren't you going to get properly fitted at Everglides? Why are you resorting to a shop where they don't know what they are doing?

 

[Vladik]

Weren't you going to get properly fitted at Everglides? Why are you resorting to a shop where they don't know what they are doing?

Yes yes I am, don’t worry! I happened to be in there to look at skates and they started chatting to me about it, as they had initially fitted me for my first pair in September. Told them I wasn’t planning on purchasing any (I am lol, but just not with them, going to Everglides instead). They said that’s fine but if I want to try some stuff on to figure out what different brands feel like that’s fine. So they’ve ordered a couple boots in store in my size. Wont be purchasing anything until I’ve been fitted at Everglides. Didn’t want to be rude and decline, but made it very clear I wasn’t looking to buy!

 

[tstop4me]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought you had gone wacko.

Looks like the guys at your local shop really like you, ordering boots just to have you try them out.

 

[Vladik]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought you had gone wacko.

Looks like the guys at your local shop really like you, ordering boots just to have you try them out.

Hahahah not gone wacko just yet!

Oh god, now I’m worrying that they maybe got the wrong end of the stick and are under the impression I’m going to buy. Thought I made it pretty clear. I even said I wasn’t looking to purchase. Yikes, this’ll be awkward.

 

[tstop4me]

Hahahah not gone wacko just yet!

Oh god, now I’m worrying that they maybe got the wrong end of the stick and are under the impression I’m going to buy. Thought I made it pretty clear. I even said I wasn’t looking to purchase. Yikes, this’ll be awkward.

I don't know how it works in your local shop. At my local shops, if they order something just for me (something they don't normally stock), they require a deposit before ordering.

 

[Vladik]

I don't know how it works in your local shop. At my local shops, if they order something just for me (something they don't normally stock), they require a deposit before ordering.

Oh boy. They do typically stock them, they just happened to not have my size in. Let’s hope all goes well. It’s going to be a little awkward in a few months time when I try them on, and I’m like “Ohhh no thank you, don’t think I’m gonna buy.”
And then proceed to rock up with the same pair from Everglides a month later asking for a sharpening.

Feel like I’m cheating on my skate tech here lol. I get a 10% discount at my local pro shop but man, I cannot turn down Everglides. I need a good fitting.

 

[tstop4me]

Oh boy. They do typically stock them, they just happened to not have my size in. Let’s hope all goes well. It’s going to be a little awkward in a few months time when I try them on, and I’m like “Ohhh no thank you, don’t think I’m gonna buy.”
And then proceed to rock up with the same pair from Everglides a month later asking for a sharpening.

Feel like I’m cheating on my skate tech here lol. I get a 10% discount at my local pro shop but man, I cannot turn down Everglides. I need a good fitting.

If they normally stock these boots and didn't special order them for you at your request, then you're OK. Perhaps it would be wise for you not to approach them and ask whether the boots have come in for you to try. Stay quiet, and hope they forget. But if you happen to be in the shop for a sharpening or something else, and they approach you with, "Hey, we got the boots in. Would you like to try them on?", well that's on them.

You're not cheating. Cheating is when a skater gets fitted at a local shop and then buys elsewhere for a lower price. Local shops that I'm familiar with have dealt with this situation by charging a fitting fee. If you subsequently buy the skates from the shop, the fitting fee is applied to the purchase price. But if you buy elsewhere, the fitter is at least compensated for their time and expertise.

I'm pleasantly surprised that you realize at least the potential for an ethical quandary. Indicative of good moral character (as we used to say in a firm I once worked at). Kudos to you!

 

[Vladik]

If they normally stock these boots and didn't special order them for you at your request, then you're OK. Perhaps it would be wise for you not to approach them and ask whether the boots have come in for you to try. Stay quiet, and hope they forget. But if you happen to be in the shop for a sharpening or something else, and they approach you with, "Hey, we got the boots in. Would you like to try them on?", well that's on them.

You're not cheating. Cheating is when a skater gets fitted at a local shop and then buys elsewhere for a lower price. Local shops that I'm familiar with have dealt with this situation by charging a fitting fee. If you subsequently buy the skates from the shop, the fitting fee is applied to the purchase price. But if you buy elsewhere, the fitter is at least compensated for their time and expertise.

I'm pleasantly surprised that you realize at least the potential for an ethical quandary. Indicative of good moral character (as we used to say in a firm I once worked at). Kudos to you!

I’m definitely going to keep on the low and keep quiet about it. They have my phone number and name, and I was told they’d contact me when the delivery comes in. Let’s just pray they forget.

And thank you so much!! Much appreciated!

 

[LokiPoki]

This is a slightly different question, but I didn't think it warranted a new thread.

I have Edea boots currently. Currently going well, skills are progressing etc.

We have discovered since getting boots that actually fit, that my right foot pronates quite a lot.

I got rid of the flimsy Edea sole that was in there, and put a different one in, but I was wondering if anyone has had experience with the Jackson insoles.

My biggest issue is that I am concerned that the Jackson insoles would be too wide for my Edea boot. The insole in the right boot now, had to be cut so it would fit in the boot, as originally it was too wide.

The Jackson insoles seem to be quite good, and I was thinking they might help my right foot. I'm not sure my coach knows much about them. I also wouldn't want to have to do too much cutting/shaping as I would be worried it would throw off the support. I also wouldn't know which degree of support would be better for me.

Edea have insoles, but they seem to be more shock absorbers, than support. I'm only learning single jumps at the moment, and most of the time I'm too chicken to get off the ground, so I wouldn't think shock absorbing insoles would be necessary right now.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with these insoles, and putting them in a differently branded boot.

 

[leia1979]

I have a decent amount of pronation and found the Riedell R-Fit insoles helped. It's a kit that lets you select from three arch heights and has a heel wedge to help with pronation. Riedells are usually pretty narrow boots, so I think it would fit okay. Also, were your blades mounted to account for your pronation? I have a combo of insole and blade being a little to the inside to combat my pronation.