Irina Slutskaya and Olympics 2002

[drivingmissdaisy]

There's no way Irina should have been behind Sasha at that event. Sasha's scores in SLC were inflated way above what she received in international events prior to that, primarily because the quality of her skating wasn't nearly as good as it was a few years later (when she did her spirals on actual edges). I would have been ok with Irina winning, but this is the Olympics and I don't think you can argue you were "robbed" when you got outclassed athletically. The Olympic motto is FASTER, HIGHER, STRONGER; it isn't the place to rest on your reputation or complain that your artistry wasn't sufficiently rewarded by the judges.

 

[LiamForeman]

I can't agree with you more. Kerrigan has more to whine about being robbed, at least she performed two clean programs while Baiul couldn't even do one program cleanly. But Slutskaya? She always was soooooo arrogant. She felt if she learned even rudimentary dance movements that she was now an "artiste". She was horrible IMO from an artistic point of view. Wretched. Not that Hughes was much better but Hughes did skate the performance of her life and was better/stronger/faster than she ever was or would be.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I have to say that... Hughes is rarely ungraceful.
Did she have any ballet training?

 

[LiamForeman]

I have to say that... Hughes is rarely ungraceful.
Did she have any ballet training?

I took ballet for my entire childhood. It's hard to say if she just took a ballet class once a week that she'd be more graceful. It would help, for sure, but ballet is not just having beautiful arms and dramatic flair. If she did take ballet, her instructor should be embarrassed. Really NOTHING was right about her body positioning, and the most graceful looking arms will not hide that fact. I'm not saying everyone needs to be a prima on ice skating to Nutcracker or whatever. I laughed when someone posted that the guy from Canada, the American, gosh I'm blanking on his name, the one who went to the Olympics. The Hulk guy. Dang I'm losing it. Anyway, someone said he needed to take ballet. I'm thinking, are you kidding? He totally looks like he's had years of ballet! He's wonderful to watch. That's one thing that Team Eteri is so good at. They focus on body position/motion/dance even way beyond ballet. They know how to move and be correctly positioned. Anyway, wrt to Hughes and Slutskaya, it was obvious they didn't spend much time in a dance studio growing and their skating reflected it. Plus they were probably naturally ungraceful to begin with. I don't see much dance training with Kwan but she was just naturally graceful. The other two had to work harder on that.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

There's no way Irina should have been behind Sasha at that event. Sasha's scores in SLC were inflated way above what she received in international events prior to that, primarily because the quality of her skating wasn't nearly as good as it was a few years later (when she did her spirals on actual edges). I would have been ok with Irina winning, but this is the Olympics and I don't think you can argue you were "robbed" when you got outclassed athletically. The Olympic motto is FASTER, HIGHER, STRONGER; it isn't the place to rest on your reputation or complain that your artistry wasn't sufficiently rewarded by the judges.

Lol I loves me some Sasha Cohen but she was not podium worthy in 2002.

Irina was tentative and underwhelmed but being behind Cohen and an American sweep on American soil would have been so controversial and frankly unmerited.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I can't agree with you more. Kerrigan has more to whine about being robbed, at least she performed two clean programs while Baiul couldn't even do one program cleanly. But Slutskaya? She always was soooooo arrogant. She felt if she learned even rudimentary dance movements that she was now an "artiste". She was horrible IMO from an artistic point of view. Wretched. Not that Hughes was much better but Hughes did skate the performance of her life and was better/stronger/faster than she ever was or would be.

I think wretched is a bit harsh. She was a competitor and still brought beautiful skating and a much needed intensity. Irina at her best was so exciting to watch. Has anyone (or many?) done her signature double biellmann? And she’s one of the first to wear pants and make em look fierce.

She doesn’t deserve the 2002 gold and might be salty about it but she deserves way more respect than “wretched”. 2002 was not reflective of the programs and athleticism she was capable of.

 

[Dr. Jenn]

I took ballet for my entire childhood. It's hard to say if she just took a ballet class once a week that she'd be more graceful. It would help, for sure, but ballet is not just having beautiful arms and dramatic flair. If she did take ballet, her instructor should be embarrassed. Really NOTHING was right about her body positioning, and the most graceful looking arms will not hide that fact. I'm not saying everyone needs to be a prima on ice skating to Nutcracker or whatever. I laughed when someone posted that the guy from Canada, the American, gosh I'm blanking on his name, the one who went to the Olympics. The Hulk guy. Dang I'm losing it. Anyway, someone said he needed to take ballet. I'm thinking, are you kidding? He totally looks like he's had years of ballet! He's wonderful to watch. That's one thing that Team Eteri is so good at. They focus on body position/motion/dance even way beyond ballet. They know how to move and be correctly positioned. Anyway, wrt to Hughes and Slutskaya, it was obvious they didn't spend much time in a dance studio growing and their skating reflected it. Plus they were probably naturally ungraceful to begin with. I don't see much dance training with Kwan but she was just naturally graceful. The other two had to work harder on that.

Keegan Messing

 

[LiamForeman]

Keegan Messing

LOVE. I wanted to type Keith Coogan but knew it was so wrong! Yes, Keegan. I love his skating. Is he staying in?

 

[mrrice]

On the question of Sarah's Ballet Training. I do believe she had some training. I saw her live in 1999 when she was what....13. She was "Coltish" as they say but, you could see that she was on her way. I saw her again in Vancouver and she was amazing. Still just 15 but she was drastically improved from 1999. This event was really decided by the SP finishing order and Sarah's brilliant night of skating.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Sorry, but I would’ve put Slutskaya 2nd or 3rd regardless of where the event was held. She skated a very nice short, but I still would’ve put her 2ND behind Kwan. The free was sloppy - IMO Sarah should’ve won the free with Suguri 2nd, Slutskaya 3rd, Kwan 4th, Cohen 5th. Not sure how that would’ve affected the overall results, but I don’t think it would’ve been enough for Irina to take the title.

 

[mrrice]

Sorry, but I would’ve put Slutskaya 2nd or 3rd regardless of where the event was held. She skated a very nice short, but I still would’ve put her 2ND behind Kwan. The free was sloppy - IMO Sarah should’ve won the free with Suguri 2nd, Slutskaya 3rd, Kwan 4th, Cohen 5th. Not sure how that would’ve affected the overall results, but I don’t think it would’ve been enough for Irina to take the title.

I don't think it would have changed anything. Fumie would have needed to be 4th in order to take the gold by winning the free. I remember seeing Fumie in Vancouver and I tell you what, she was even faster than Irina. However, I didn't have her near the podium at that time. I believe she finished 7th in 2001

 

[Alex D]

I can't agree with you more. Kerrigan has more to whine about being robbed, at least she performed two clean programs while Baiul couldn't even do one program cleanly. But Slutskaya? She always was soooooo arrogant. She felt if she learned even rudimentary dance movements that she was now an "artiste". She was horrible IMO from an artistic point of view. Wretched. Not that Hughes was much better but Hughes did skate the performance of her life and was better/stronger/faster than she ever was or would be.

I dont think its fair to call her "arrogant", as she was mostly suffering from fear and insecurity, which often looks like arrogance to people. She has been a very hard working lady for 13 years at senior events, did compete at three Olympics and was one of the main reasons Russia claimed the gold so often in recent years. She motivated a whole bunch of young girls to start skating and without her, Russian skating wouldnt be where it is today.

Personally, I would compare her impact on Russian FS similar to the impact of Yuna Kim and Mao Asada in their respective countries.

What I remember from 2002 is mostly the face of Sarah everywhere, if I recall correctly they even printed it on milk bottles and stuff. She also put flowers on ice during the EX, overall quite an emotional figure skating event. I would need to rewatch the whole thing on screen, to actually do a fair judgement, back then I was rooting for Sasha and did not like that she didnt win. :noshake:

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I dont think its fair to call her "arrogant", as she was mostly suffering from fear and insecurity, which often looks like arrogance to people. She has been a very hard working lady for 13 years at senior events, did compete at three Olympics and was one of the main reasons Russia claimed the gold so often in recent years. She motivated a whole bunch of young girls to start skating and without her, Russian skating wouldnt be where it is today.

Very few of us have dedicated 10 - 20 years of our life to accomplishing one goal and coming up short based on the opinion of a single judge. Often, after these huge disappointments we shove a microphone in front of these athletes and expect nothing less than for them to be thrilled with the outcome. I don't think it's ever really fair to expect skaters to be objective about these results, especially when everyone knows the outcome often comes down to things outside the skater's control, like the geographic composition of the judging panel, the location of the event, etc. Even as a fan, I acknowledge that there is often more than one skater who makes a valid argument as to why they deserved gold. Since 1994, I think only 2006 and 2010 had a clear cut ladies winner; 2018 (2), 2014 (3), 2002 (2), 1998 (2), and 1994 (2) were all events that had more than one skater whom I would have deemed an acceptable winner. Those skaters who didn't get gold have every right to be disappointed.

 

[Mista Ekko]

She doesn’t deserve the 2002 gold and might be salty about it but she deserves way more respect than “wretched”. 2002 was not reflective of the programs and athleticism she was capable of.

Well, At least she got her first world title in 2002 (And won GPF)

I don't like "arrogant" either, I mean she occasionaly speaks freely in interviews,
But she was always classy in the K&C and podiums, That's all you could really ask for, No?

 

[Scott512]

Very few of us have dedicated 10 - 20 years of our life to accomplishing one goal and coming up short based on the opinion of a single judge. Often, after these huge disappointments we shove a microphone in front of these athletes and expect nothing less than for them to be thrilled with the outcome. I don't think it's ever really fair to expect skaters to be objective about these results, especially when everyone knows the outcome often comes down to things outside the skater's control, like the geographic composition of the judging panel, the location of the event, etc. Even as a fan, I acknowledge that there is often more than one skater who makes a valid argument as to why they deserved gold. Since 1994, I think only 2006 and 2010 had a clear cut ladies winner; 2018 (2), 2014 (3), 2002 (2), 1998 (2), and 1994 (2) were all events that had more than one skater whom I would have deemed an acceptable winner. Those skaters who didn't get gold have every right to be disappointed.

Perfectly stated.

 

[Scott512]

Well, At least she got her first world title in 2002 (And won GPF)

I don't like "arrogant" either, I mean she occasionaly speaks freely in interviews,
But she was always classy in the K&C and podiums, That's all you could really ask for, No?

Irina was one of the most productive women skaters in modern history. It's a shame she never won the ollympic gold but she did something more important. That was to overcome her illness in heroic fashion and then get married and have three children. Talk about being a warrior woman. Be happy Irina. She deserves it.

 

[labgoat]

Irina was one of the most productive women skaters in modern history. It's a shame she never won the ollympic gold but she did something more important. That was to overcome her illness in heroic fashion and then get married and have three children. Talk about being a warrior woman. Be happy Irina. She deserves it.

In some ways, Michelle and Irina have the same accomplishments. Both were world champions and Olympic medalists. Both had tremendous name recognition while remaining near the top of the podium for a long period of time inspiring countless skaters around the world. I first saw both her and Kwan compete at junior world and was impressed by Irina's drive, charm and vivacity. She exhibited these qualities her entire career along with difficult, well executed spins and high jumps in marvelous combinations. She overcame a difficult transition to womanhood and overcame medical problems. I find I still respect her as a sportswoman and appreciate the rapport she and Michelle had for each other. She has a remarkable number of accomplishments from her long career that few match. I loved watching her grow up from a spunky girl to a resilient young woman. I still watch her performances and get caught up in her energy. It seems the price of having a long career is to not get the top prize. We haven't had many of these examples outside of Suguri, Sebestyen and Kostner.

 

[Alex D]

It seems the price of having a long career is to not get the top prize. We haven't had many of these examples outside of Suguri, Sebestyen and Kostner.

It depends I guess. Yelena Isinbaeva got two gold and a bronze at three Olympic games and without the ban would have gone to Rio too and maybe even scored a 4th medal there. Katharina Witt also won 2 gold and competed at Lillehammer for her third Olympic games. Kelly Clark won gold in 2002 at Salt Lake and kept going to the Olympics until 2018, winning two more bronze and two more 4th places at the Halfpipe events, finishing her career in 2019 after 18 years!

From my point of view it has a lot to do with the mindset of an athlete. You got those one hit wonders and you got those that go the distance. Of course the financial aspect and desire to have children also plays a role, but you can combine all that with being a successful athlete too, as seen with Dasha Domratschawa. We also have to factor in that in artistic sports, young athletes do have an advantage so it becomes harder to stay on top to qualify which makes the achievements of those above even more noteworthy.

I would say this is currently the number one reason the russian girls only last for one olympic cycle, the youth just takes over so that the chance to even qualify is so low, that the motivation to work every day goes below 0 and they have to focus on education and their future life.

 

[David21]

Yeah, I was like - um she made a ton of errors.

She didn't. It was Hughes who made a ton of errors.

The fact that 6 judges had tied her with Hughes on the technical mark was a gift.

No, it wasn't. Hughes marks for her poor SP were a gift. Kwan's marks in the SP were also a gift. The SP was where Slutslkaya was robbed.

Many of her jumping passes had issues (3Z+2L was clean but it looked like a mistake as she had obviously hoped it to be a 3Z+3L, 3S+2L+half loop (really, more like a stepout IMO)+2S, 3F was a nose dive.

The triple flip was the only jump that had a slight flaw and even that was a countable, landed jump in the end. The 3Lz+2L was clean. There was no stepout on the other jump combination.

I think the artistic scores were a bit high for Hughes but she was flawless and it was a beautiful skate.

She wasn't flawless. Like I've said, she made ton of errors. Almost all jumps except for the double axel and triple toe (the easiest jumps) were underrotated, hence flawed.

Sorry Irina, you were not robbed of gold. Sure Hughes had underrotations on her 3-3 jumps but at least she went for them and they're still better than rotated than triples turned to doubles. Irina had two chances to include a 3-3 combination (which she was capable of doing) and copped out of each one, whereas Hughes went for broke. Had Irina done a 3S+3L, I think she would have had it. But she held back - not just on the jumps but the program itself. Irina needs to watch hers and Sarah's performances side by side because IMO, it wasn't even close.

It was close, and the marks indicated that.

You are wrong on almost everything.

 

[Skatesocs]

Slutskaya is incorrect. She should have been off the podium. (I thought Cohen was the best in the SP)