Is it easier to cheat in 6.0 or CoP?

[seniorita]

ah well..it was a productive one hour

 

[sleepyjl]

And regarding Lepisto from earlier...I don't think she deserved those scores at Skate Canada. She has great Skating Skills and she stays animated and energetic (performance/execution) but I don't find her program particularly interesting or engaging. She stands around posing like the first 20 seconds of the program.

Mirai has pretty much been screwed over this season. I would have put her 2nd at Cup of China and 3rd at Skate Canada.

The Finnish girls really got held up at those competitions, especially Korpii...2nd at Cup of China when she should have been 4th? Blah.

Wow, what an interesting thread! I have to thank Mathman for making me think about probability for the first time since college.

I don't have anything to add re: whether it's easier to cheat under the CoP system. I do, however, have to interject now that the question has shifted to whether the CoP system is fairer than the 6.0 system.

The short answer is: hell yeah! The problem with the old system (cheating aside) was that it relied too much on a judge's subjective reaction to a program, on how it "felt" to him/her. Sure, there were guidelines on what judges were supposed to consider, but it was unreasonable for the ISU to expect them to accurately consider all such factors in the 30 seconds or so it took for them to decide their scores.

The problem with "feeling" judging or ordinal judging ("I think Miki skated better than Kiira today") is that it makes it far too easy for judges to let their hidden biases slip into their judging. I'm sure you've all heard of in-group biases and how prevalent and insidious they are. Humans are hard-wired to favor those they perceive to be part of their own group, whether it be based on race, nationality, physical appearance, political ideology, etc., without even realizing they are doing it! Throw in historical enmities between certain (blocs of) nations, and you've got the perfect recipe for unfair judging.

With the CoP system, you are at least forcing the judges to consider the objective merits of the individual components before making judgments ("I think Miki's 2A was technically better than Kiira's"). The more you draw attention to discrete, measurable elements, the less likely it is for someone to judge based on whatever positive/negative feelings he/she has toward a particular skater.

You may argue about the relative weight that should be given to certain elements (e.g., should the number of rotations in a spin be given more weight than its speed?), or which factors should or shouldn't be considered (e.g., choreography), but I think it's undeniable that the CoP reduces the effect of unconscious biases in judging.

On a final note, please consider for yourself, do you prefer Miki/Kiira because she's Asian/white, because she's more/less attractive, because she speaks English better/worse, because her facial expressions are more familiar to you and therefore easier to find "expressive", or because you recognize her music choices? If so, do you want these factors to be more or less prominent in the judging?

 

[Mathman]

On a final note, please consider for yourself, do you prefer Miki/Kiira because she's Asian/white, because she's more/less attractive, because she speaks English better/worse, because her facial expressions are more familiar to you and therefore easier to find "expressive", or because you recognize her music choices? If so, do you want these factors to be more or less prominent in the judging?

It could happen the other way around, too. You might think that someone from a distant country and an unfamiliar culture was exotic and beautiful. You might think a dance team presenting an authentic folk dance from Outer Mongolia was incredibly cool. You might, whatever your race, cheer to see a black skater like Debi Thomas or Surya Bonaly breaking barriers. :yes:

 

[janetfan]

It could happen the other way around, too. You might think that someone from a distant country and an unfamiliar culture was exotic and beautiful. You might think a dance team presenting an authentic folk dance from Outer Mongolia was incredibly cool. You might, whatever your race, cheer to see a black skater like Debi Thomas or Surya Bonaly breaking barriers. :yes:

Here is something quite exotic - it is an interview with Laura and Kiira speaking Finnish. One of the most difficult languages I ever had to learn - and I only mean tourist talk.

Modern Finnish, part of Finno-Ugric is an Uralic language that originated in the boreal region of the Ural mountains.

Sorry for the OT but if you are curious see if you can understand a word that either Laura or Kiira speaks in this interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwTG...5E5D679B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=12

And they are sort of dressed up and look lovely

 

[janetfan]

if the say either of yks, kaks or kolm, I could understand it

Hyvaa iltaa K.

 

[janetfan]

hyvää yötä my dear Janetfan. But let me assure you, I had to look that up.

kiitos (danke) I remember that but am almost out of Finnish words

Is it very odd that there are Finnish references on two different threads tonight? :yes: