Re: Is Michelle given preferential treatment by USFSA?
This was the longwinded post I didn't think I had to write after I read Apache's responses to some of the posters who doubted his motives for asking his question about Michelle. But it seems a few people are determined to see Apache in a negative light no matter what he says. I know what I say won't change anybody's opinion. In fact, Apache being defended by Rgirl might make some people think, "Well then he <strong>must</strong> be antiMichelle!":lol: But I am in complete agreement with Joe re: <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think [Apache's] question did not carry overtones. The original poster was simply looking for a rational answer about what s/he did not understand.[/quote] Well said, Joe. In fact, this is the kind of response that I think helps promote better relations and understanding on the forum. Unfortunately I'm sure what I am about to say is not going to promote better relations and understanding, but I have a real problem with the way some people are attacking ApacheApache.
I just don't understand the negative attitude some posters have expressed towards Apache. Apache said <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Are skaters allowed to skip events as they please like what Michelle is doing? I would hate the idea that Michelle is given the exception by the federation. No matter how much I love her and how much she has given to the sport, I don't think it's fair for Michelle to be given the special treatment. I ask this question because I have read so much negativity towards Michelle on this issue. Can someone please clarify?[/quote] Maybe the question could have been worded better, but what bothers me is that we have a situation where someone asking a perfectly legitimate question about Michelle is assumed by some GS posters to be stirring up trouble by saying that Michelle is indeed being given preferential treatment and that this is something Apache does often. I find this behavior disheartening. As Joe said, GS strives to be a cut above. I can understand if people were unclear about the way Apache worded his question, but why assume he is saying something against Michelle? Why not first post something like, "I find your wording unclear. It sounds to me like you think Michelle <strong>is</strong> being given preferential treatment. Where did you read all this 'negativity' because I haven't seen it on GS? If I'm mistaken and you're just asking the question because you truly don't know, perhaps you could clarify why you're asking it." Why not give the benefit of the doubt until one has more information?
As for the notion expressed by Eltamina that Apache's threads work like "magnets" attracting Michelle-haters (I know you didn't say Michelle; you said "so and so"), I could not disagree more with the idea that the poster who starts a thread with a legitimate question is responsible for the kind of responses it gets. If I felt Apache intentionally asked, "Why do people hate Michelle?" knowing that a bunch of Michelle-haters would come out of the woodwork to bash her and that he was reveling in such commotion, that would be one thing. But I have no doubt that Apache asked the question innocently and had no idea the bashers would "ride in on their broomsticks." From all the posts I've read of Apache's, and I have done searches of his posts on two different occasions to see if I was wrong and if indeed there was a pattern of "stirring things up," all I've found is an ardent Michelle fan who admits he doesn't know much about figure skating in general. Even if people do add posts to this thread in which they critisize Michelle for not doing the GP series, which I see has already happened--and I also see that Eltamina edited her post at 6:31pm to add "IIRC you [Mathman] observed something about a year ago. Someone post a thread about 'Why do people hate so and so....' Sure enough, it was like a magnet, that attracted the haters of so and so. 'They flew in with the broomsticks and told us in vivid details why they hate so and so... (per Uberprofessor Herr Doktor Mann) I wonder how this thread will develop," which is after Akaira_posted her criticisms of Michelle at 5:49pm. So no, Eltamina, it was not "before I can say"; you edited your post some 40 minutes <em>after</em> you had the opportunity to read Akaira's post.
BTW, in my searches of ApacheApache's threads and posts I found no pattern of "instigating" or "troublemaking." I think some people may just be allergic to admitting, even to themselves, that they might be wrong.
IMO Apache's question here and his previous questions have been sincere. Every time Apache has posted on GS he has stated how much he loves Michelle. Several times he has said that the only reason he watches figure skating is because of Michelle. He has also stated that he really doesn't know or care to know much about skating in general because he's not interested in the sport, he just loves Michelle. Because of this, Apache has said, he may ask "dumb" questions sometimes. I've never seen Apache write anything even implying anything negative about Michelle. He has questions and has come here on occasion to ask them. He had a question and he asked it in a direct manner. Perhaps because he doesn't know all the personalities involved in skating he didn't know that any question about Michelle where something negative is involved must be worded very carefully. I notice that on Apache's other thread, "1996 Worlds Revisited - Lu Chen vs Michelle" that of the few people who have responded, nobody has had a problem with Apache, but there his final opinion about Worlds '96 is that Michelle should have won. If Apache is responsible for the kinds of things that are said on a post he started, then we are all responsible for everything anyone says in response to anything we say. I find this notion absolutely ridiculous.
I also think it's unfair to take a quote out of context and then use it to say Apache has an "amazing knack for finding 'negativity towards Michelle' to read about, on virtually every issue that comes up," as Mathman did. If Apache were finding "negativity about Michelle" on "virtually every issue that comes up," he'd be posting about it here10 times a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
From reading many, many of Apache's posts, I have no doubt that he pays attention to very little about figure skating unless it has to do with Michelle. IMO Apache is an ardent Michelle fan who gets very upset when he reads people posting ugly criticisms about Michelle. Thus he would be the last person to want to prompt such comments. Eltamina, you yourself have often talked about the horrible things people say about Michelle on certain other forums, and from what I've seen, it's true--on certain other forums people indeed bash Michelle. Forgive me if I'm being presumptuous, but I think Apache comes to GS to ask his questions because he feels he will get a fair and accurate response. I hope anybody would feel free to ask an honest question about any skater at GS no matter what his/her knowledge of skating is without fear of insinuations of being a troublemaker. As a professor I admired in grad school once said, "There is no such thing as a stupid question as long as the person asking it is sincere." I wholeheartedly agree with this and I think Apache is sincere.
I know this may sound like I'm making a big deal out of nothing, but with the ever-increasing membership at GS, no doubt the forum will be getting more posters who may not use the best wording when asking questions that involve controversial issues. I would hate to see other people get the kind of treatment Apache has gotten from a few posters here. I think this probably bothers me more than it does Apache, lol, but I'm using Apache to make a general point that sometimes people put a label on a poster based on a past misunderstanding, and sometimes a genuine argument, but when it comes to one's favorite skater (and I mean any skater, not just Michelle), I think there is a tendency for fans see bashing where there is none. I've no doubt been guilty of it myself.
If people have doubts about ApacheApache's motives, perhaps they could do him the courtesy of reading some of his posts. I've listed those I found by doing a Search of "ApacheApache" on "The Edge" and included all except the ones from this thread and one that was just a one sentence "Thanks for the summary" to another poster. This is only to those who feel Apache is out to make trouble about Michelle. I hope you would read his posts as quickly as you would assume he has ulterior motives.
Sorry I can't link these, but if you click "Search" and put in the name "ApacheApache" (no space between the two names) you will get a list like this, plus the posts I said I left out, and you can click on the names to go directly to the posts.
What's wrong with comparisons?_ _ _ _
5/31/03 1:51:17 pm_ _ _ _ ApacheApache
Re: What's wrong with comparisons?_ _ _ _
5/31/03 4:12:12 am_ _ _ _ ApacheApache
Michelle's 6-7 triple programs in the last 10 years_ _ _ _
5/15/03 1:32:01 am_ _ _ _ ApacheApache
Re: "Greatest Technique"_ _ _ _
5/30/03 6:30:56 am_ _ _ _ ApacheApache
1996 Worlds Revisited - Lu Chen vs Michelle_ _ _ _
6/9/03 10:23:43 pm_ _ _ _ ApacheApache
Why I like the CoP System?_ _ _ _
6/2/03 12:07:10 pm_ _ _ _ ApacheApache
Under "Past Edgings"
Objectively speaking:The most decorated skater in the US_ _ _ _
5/4/03 9:30:52 am_ _ _ _ ApacheApache
Rgirl
Edited to fix the messy way the part about ApacheApache's posts turned out
