Is Mirai Nagasu Underscored?

[yoloaxel]

Premise: I like Mirai as a person, and I think she can be a really nice skater. I liked her free program this year and I admire her so much for being able to master the 3A at her age. It truly is impressive, and it was impressive that she managed to make the Olympic team a second time, 8 years later!

This is not a post to bash Mirai. This post comes from the fact that wherever I go, be it this forum or twitter, or any other website, a lot of people seem to believe that Mirai is criminally underscored, both in TES and in in PCS. To be completely honest, I think Mirai is a nice skater but I also think she is usually scored pretty much as she should be. She doesn't have many transitions, her SS are good but not outstanding. Her interpretation I think has gotten better with maturity, but it's still not outstanding. The GOE she gets for her jumps reflect, in my opinion, their overall quality.

Am I missing something?

 

[alvina9894]

I agree with you, 32.76+64.98 are well-deserved PCS for Mirai. In WC the excessive telegraphing before 2A was anticlimactic and to me, it hurts her performance.
Her jumps are not huge and effortless, and at many occasions borderline/UR; spins and SS are good but not outstanding - I agree with the GOEs.

 

[UpNorth]

Maybe a better question would be, why are they unnecessarily harsh in calling her compared to other skaters? From what I've observed, if it's borderline she will always be called. Sometimes even if it's fine they will call her. Meanwhile, other top skaters get a pass plus a few extra PCS.
It's not fair to her.
The US deserved 3 spots with the 4 programs Bradie and mirai out down. But.....politics. We all know the US isn't very popular right now, esp in Europe. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

 

[nguyhm]

Maybe a better question would be, why are they unnecessarily harsh in calling her compared to other skaters? From what I've observed, if it's borderline she will always be called. Sometimes even if it's fine they will call her. Meanwhile, other top skaters get a pass plus a few extra PCS.
It's not fair to her.
The US deserved 3 spots with the 4 programs Bradie and mirai out down. But.....politics. We all know the US isn't very popular right now, esp in Europe. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

ITA, it's not a matter of Mirai being underscored, it's a matter of others (cough cough) being overscored. That's what makes me angry and disappointed.

 

[steiner]

ITA, it's not a matter of Mirai being underscored, it's a matter of others (cough cough) being overscored. That's what makes me angry and disappointed.

My thoughts exactly. Harsh tech panels are a good thing, but only if they're consistent across all skaters.

 

[bubblecherry]

I don't know if I would say she's underscored, but I don't think she gets the same benefit of having her jumps called rotated when she's within 1/4 of the full rotation like other skaters do. Lack of consistency within judging definitely isn't on her side. Her PCS is fine for the programs she delivers IMO.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Premise: I like Mirai as a person, and I think she can be a really nice skater. I liked her free program this year and I admire her so much for being able to master the 3A at her age. It truly is impressive, and it was impressive that she managed to make the Olympic team a second time, 8 years later!

This is not a post to bash Mirai. This post comes from the fact that wherever I go, be it this forum or twitter, or any other website, a lot of people seem to believe that Mirai is criminally underscored, both in TES and in in PCS. To be completely honest, I think Mirai is a nice skater but I also think she is usually scored pretty much as she should be. She doesn't have many transitions, her SS are good but not outstanding. Her interpretation I think has gotten better with maturity, but it's still not outstanding. The GOE she gets for her jumps reflect, in my opinion, their overall quality.

Am I missing something?

When she doesn’t underrotate, I think she should be awarded with higher GOEs. At the Olys, her 8 triple program was given a 73 tech score while someone like Mai Mihara usually gets 74 with a clean program. This shows the judges aren’t giving her GOEs thAt are as high. As for PCS, you can really go anywhere with them, but hers are pretty much fine.

 

[chuckm]

Mihara is #10 on the SB list with 210.57. Nagasu is #25 with 194.46.
Mihara was 5th at 2017 Worlds. Nagasu was 10th at both 2016 and 2018 Worlds and 10th at the 2018 Olympics.
Mihara won gold at 2017 4CC where Nagasu won bronze.
In her two GP seasons, Mihara won 1 bronze and had three 4th places; in her last two GP seasons, Mirai had one 4th place, one 5th place and two 9th places.

Mihara is known for her consistently clean/near-clean 7-triple programs. ISU judges know what to expect from her and score her accordingly. Her PCS scores have risen since her first senior appearance at SA 2016 because of her consistency and her improved performance skills.

When Nagasu steps on the ice, no one knows what to expect, including the judges. This season, she hasn't put together a clean SP and a clean FS in the same event; she attempted 3a in all her pre-Olympic performances with variable results. At the Olympics, she landed 3a in the team event FS, but fell on the 3a in the SP and bailed on it in the FS. She did not attempt 3a at Worlds. Her performances and PCS scores are variable as well.

 

[IndependentObserver]

Oh Chuckm. Bless your critical heart. I can always guarantee you will never pass a chance to bash Mirai. Granted she is not the most artistic skater or one who emotes to the rafters. But cut the girl some slack. She is the ONLY woman to land a clean eight triple program EVER, and she did so on Olympic ice. That has to count for something. Even if it was just one time - she did it!

It's not like the other US ladies are beacons of consistency with balance in jumps and artistry.

I agree with some of the other posters. It's not that she's underscored, but others are over scored and get a pass on their rotations.

Oh and chuck, I do agree with you on Ryan Bradley. His delivery and analysis are unbearable.

 

[brightphoton]

When Nagasu steps on the ice, no one knows what to expect, including the judges.

maybe judges should give scores based on what they see on the ice, and not what they are expecting from past experiences ...

 

[chuckm]

Perhaps Mirai is 'underscored' in relation to others being 'overscored' because most of those other skaters deliver clean programs consistently and perform their programs more expressively than Mirai does.

If Mirai wants to be on the World podium, she won't get there just because her fans want her there. She has to earn it by showing she belongs there. All of the top 5 skaters at Worlds made it to the GPF this season, and they are all in the top 10 on the SB list with scores over 215. Mirai, OTOH, hasn't won a GP medal since 2013 and her #25 SB score is less than 195.

And of the skaters placed 6-9 ahead of Mirai, Sotskova and Daleman were treated just as harshly by Amano as Mirai was, and Bradie too got her serving of carrots. Hendrickx delivered two squeaky clean programs with great exuberance and elan and clearly rotated all of her jumps---if she got higher GOE, she deserved it.

 

[chuckm]

maybe judges should give scores based on what they see on the ice, and not what they are expecting from past experiences ...

The judges did do that. Mirai executed all her jumps without falls, but without much expression or relationship to the music. She got decent PCS scores, actually a tad higher than usual. The judges will give her higher scores when she is able to perform her competition programs cleanly and with the verve she shows in her exhibitions.

It was the tech specialist Amano who gave her the URs.

 

[deneuved]

I've always thought she is terribly OVERSCORED. Not a fan.

 

[yoloaxel]

maybe judges should give scores based on what they see on the ice, and not what they are expecting from past experiences ...

I agree with this, but at the same time at WC everyone was given a big amount of harsh URs, not just Mirai - Satoko was graced on her second 3Lz, but pretty much everyone else was called quite harshly. The difference with someone like Sotskova for example, who managed to win a GP silver, is the overall quality of skating\interpretation. To me, Mirai is definitely top 15 in the World, but I don't see how she could possibly medal in the current field with her content\quality of content, which is why I'm alwatys baffled when people are outraged by her scores. To me they are usually quite fair.

Without having to use Medvedeva or Zagitova as a comparison, I think if you compare Mirai to the Japanese ladies (Wakaba, Mai, Satoko, Kaori), Canadian (Osmond, Daleman) or even other Russians (Sotskova, Tsurskaya, old Pogo) it's pretty clear to me that she is not in the same category as them, and her scores have been reflecting that. It's pretty telling that Mirai has never broken 200 pts.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Her biggest problem is UR on jumps. After Vancouver she was pretty much consistently called, sometimes they give her benefit of a doubt on more jumps, sometimes not, but borderline rotations were always there. What is positive aspect of her skating (except her 3A) is very good speed and interpretation of the music. What she is lacking is transitions (even Plushenko had more) and performance, and lacking of that is a product of her usual type of skating (which is expected tho cosidering her weakness) - too much concentration on jumps. But i would compare her with Satoko, who even with similiar weakness (prone to UR) is still able to give more of other aspects of skating in her program. Saying that, i think both are judged quite fine comparing to the rest of the field.

 

[Globetrotter]

Maybe a better question would be, why are they unnecessarily harsh in calling her compared to other skaters? From what I've observed, if it's borderline she will always be called. Sometimes even if it's fine they will call her. Meanwhile, other top skaters get a pass plus a few extra PCS.
It's not fair to her.
The US deserved 3 spots with the 4 programs Bradie and mirai out down. But.....politics. We all know the US isn't very popular right now, esp in Europe. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

It’s all nice to say the US deserves 3 spots but none of the US ladies are very impressive and you have to admit that they simply got outskated by others. Do you seriously think the US deserved 3 spots for the bland and meh performance where there were nothing truly special especially when ranked alongside Wakaba, Satoko, Kaetlyn and even a 31 yo CaroK and Maria Sots?

 

[RobinA]

I'm in the "underscored compared to others who are overscored" camp. I think Marai's scores are pretty fair, however there are people who seem to be overscored, and they aren't necessarily Russian. I find Sots to be relatively underscored, as are Japanese ladies at times. Kostner and now Osmond are, to me, overscored.

 

[UpNorth]

It’s all nice to say the US deserves 3 spots but none of the US ladies are very impressive and you have to admit that they simply got outskated by others. Do you seriously think the US deserved 3 spots for the bland and meh performance where there were nothing truly special especially when ranked alongside Wakaba, Satoko, Kaetlyn and even a 31 yo CaroK and Maria Sots?

I do. Not on a typical day, for sure. But that was not a typical competition. And the 4 programs Mirai and Bradie put down, compared to everyone else, should have been enough.

 

[russianfan]

No.

 

[AshWagsFan]

US did not deserve three spots. Poor performances and choices from the skaters & committee throughout the season... there’s always next year...