ISU Communication No. 1670-Ice Dance

[KKonas]

Sr. SD One to three of the following Latin rhythms: Cha Cha, Rhumba, Samba, Mambo & Merengue

Pattern Dance (2) sequences of Rhumba skated one after the other or not.

Jr. SD Pattern Dance- (2) sequences of Cha Cha Congelado skated one after the other or not. (same choice of Latin rhythms).

 

[dorispulaski]

That's what it was hinted they were going to do.

I can't say I'm very happy about it.

Do you remember Gorshkova & Butikov's FD this year?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc6VqABp_fQ

Well we will be watching one SD after the other just like that. Yech.

The one interesting thing is that the seniors can choose to skate one repeat of the rhumba, do other stuff, then do the other repeat of the rhumb, then do other stuff.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

That's what it was hinted they were going to do.

I can't say I'm very happy about it.

Do you remember Gorshkova & Butikov's FD this year?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc6VqABp_fQ

Well we will be watching one SD after the other just like that. Yech.

The one interesting thing is that the seniors can choose to skate one repeat of the rhumba, do other stuff, then do the other repeat of the rhumb, then do other stuff.

Thanks for the link and yes, Yech! The music to that entire routine could have been substituted with a European Overture. I hope it wasn't supposed to be a Latin dance.

Another poster said that Latin Dances should be taken out of competitive skating. I agree. There are enough European Dances to play in competitions.

The Rhumba is a very romantic Cuban dance. It should not show wild gyrations. however, many fans see latin dances as bursting with fire.
Can you imagine a fiery Viennese Waltz?

 

[herios]

KKonas

I am looking at the communique and I see no mention that the pattern dance being mandatory Rhumba, more like any of the mentioned latin rythms.

Here is the whole paragraph for seniors:

"Senior
One to three of the following Latin American Rhythms: Cha Cha, Rhumba, Samba,
Mambo, Merengue.
The Pattern Dance Elements can be skated to any of the above mentioned Rhythms
(both elements to the same Rhythm or one element to one Rhythm and the second
element to a different Rhythm), in the style of this (these) Rhythm(s), with the
following range of tempo: 43 to 45 measures of four beats per minute (172-180 beats
per minute). The tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Elements must be
constant."

 

[Mirunna]

I've got a question: one of the requirements for Senior SD is a not touching circular step sequence. I don't remember seeing any couple ever perform this element! I can't even imagine it. Is this a first?

 

[KKonas]

KKonas

I am looking at the communique and I see no mention that the pattern dance being mandatory Rhumba, more like any of the mentioned latin rythms.

Here is the whole paragraph for seniors:

"Senior
One to three of the following Latin American Rhythms: Cha Cha, Rhumba, Samba,
Mambo, Merengue.
The Pattern Dance Elements can be skated to any of the above mentioned Rhythms
(both elements to the same Rhythm or one element to one Rhythm and the second
element to a different Rhythm), in the style of this (these) Rhythm(s), with the
following range of tempo: 43 to 45 measures of four beats per minute (172-180 beats
per minute). The tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Elements must be
constant."

It's actually further down the communique under Pattern Dance Elements. I was hoping for only 1 sequence of the rhumba for seniors - not two.

 

[herios]

It's actually further down the communique under Pattern Dance Elements. I was hoping for only 1 sequence of the rhumba for seniors - not two.

Sorry, I missed it.

Rhumba is my favorite latin ballroom dance, I find the musics very sensual and appealing

Hoping to see things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gErxk2NfUTk

I am realistic, the T&D version of "Rhumba of Love" , which is a msterpiece is hard to match....

Definitely want to see better poducts than the Gorshkova & Butikov FD

Also I am wondering, why the "Casi un bolero" used by Katia and Ilia at SOI is not tried ever again?

I can't get enough of that routine, every time I am watching it I get goosebumps

I wouldn't be surprised if they fell in love while skating to it...

 

[Tammi]

Unfortunately, ice dancing Rhumba seems to be very different from the ballroom version. The music would need to be much faster I think to fit the tempo and beat specifications.

Here's an example of the Rhumba CD, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ShJ6ySYOUg .

 

[CARA]

Now that the 2010-2011 season has finally concluded, I have two questions regarding the 2011-2012 season ice dance rules. The questions pertains to dance lifts. I hope those who are knowledgeable help me understand.

ISU Communication No. 1670-Ice Dance 3.2. Dance Lifts states (Senior):

- two (2) different Types of Short Lifts and one (1) Long Lift, or
- four (4) Short Lifts chosen from at least three different Types are required.
In addition, one (1) Transitional Dance Lift (up to 6 seconds), but no more, performed optionally after the required Dance Lifts, is permitted.

Question 1: Did the ISU rectify the base value of 2 different types of short lifts and 1 long lift version, and 4 short lift version so that they are now the same base values? Or is the 4 short lifts version's base value still higher than the 2 short and 1 long lift versions?

Question 2: "In addition, one (1) Transitional Dance Lift (up to 6 seconds), but no more, performed optionally after the required Dance Lifts, is permitted." - Is this a new rule? Does this mean the ice dance team can perform the maximum of 5 total lifts?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

 

[Tammi]

Question 1: Did the ISU rectify the base value of 2 different types of short lifts and 1 long lift version, and 4 short lift version so that they are now the same base values? Or is the 4 short lifts version's base value still higher than the 2 short and 1 long lift versions?

Looking at the protocols for this season, it looks like that's already been done. For example a level 4 short curve lift has a 4.0 base value and a level 4 rotational short lift has a 4.0 base value. A combination lift consisting of a level 4 curve lift and a level 4 rotational lift has an 8.0 base value. A long level 4 serpentine lift and reverse rotational lift each have an 8.0 base value, so whatever the teams selected to do, the values were comparable.

Question 2: "In addition, one (1) Transitional Dance Lift (up to 6 seconds), but no more, performed optionally after the required Dance Lifts, is permitted." - Is this a new rule? Does this mean the ice dance team can perform the maximum of 5 total lifts?

Nope, not a new rule. I believe the transitional lifts were introduced during the 2009/2010 season. This season's free dance were allowed 2 transitional lifts, so teams could have actually done 6 lifts in a program. Only 4 receive levels and the other two are considered in the judges PCS mark for choreography.

An interesting new element will be the no touch circular step sequence in the short dance.

 

[CARA]

Thank you for your information, Tammi.

I was surprised to see that the maximum of 6 lifts were allowed, though to be honest, I don't remember any teams performing that much lifts. If I'm not mistaken, Weaver and Poje applied five various lifts during their FD. Still, it seems like a lot of (heavy) lifting for male partners, especially when lift elements do not flow from their choreography.

For instance, I/K's lifts during their FD do not appear to be well integrated into their choreography whereas V/M's FD lifts flowed nicely, especially the 3rd lift in which Tessa "slithers" down Scott's back.

This emphasis on increase in the number of lift element - has this been a trend in ice dancing? If so, I have concerns about toll it might take on dancers - male dancers for their potential back injuries (Massimo Scali, Keiffer Hubbell), shoulder and other injuries for females (Kerr).

Particularly scary was during the 2011 worlds FD, KATSALAPOV almost dropped ILINYKH when they performed their second lift. I could hear the audiences' collective gasp. This is more like pair skating, and I have been concerned about the athletes' safety for a while.

 

[Tammi]

There were actually 5 teams in the Worlds FD final that used 6 lifts. Weaver and Poje used 4 short lifts and 1 transitional lift in their program. The transitional lift usually is a very simple lift and should be pretty seamless within the choreography. One of the more complicated transitional lifts was from Crone & Poirier. It was more acrobatic right at the end of their program.

Unfortunately I/K had some problems at Worlds. Their timing just seemed to be off slightly and that can cause injuries. I know there was talk throughout the season that their lifts didn't quite fit the choreography. Not sure if they were trying to translate ballet lifts onto the ice and didn't want to give up on that.

There doesn't seem to be much doubt that ice dancing became much more athletic under IJS. Going forward to next year though, they've kept the lift requirement the same for the SD (1 short and 1 optional transition lift). For the FD, they reduced the optional transition lift to just 1.

 

[MagicFairy]

Does anyone know, why the junior dance teams have an other pattern dance for next season? Does that mean, if a dance team wants to compete at both junior and senior worlds, will they have to learn two different short dances, or can they use the cha cha for senior worlds instead of the rhumba?

 

[dorispulaski]

No. It's now very hard to do both jr. and sr., for just that reason. This year both Jrs and srs had a waltz pattern dance (Viennese for the juniors, Golden for the seniors). However, next year, junior will have to completely change their music up to swap out the cha cha for the rumba--of course, they could do chacha and rumba in both dances, but in one, the chacha is the pattern and in the other the rumba is the pattern. But in any case, next year it will be even harder to do both juniors and seniors.

 

[MagicFairy]

No. It's now very hard to do both jr. and sr., for just that reason. This year both Jrs and srs had a waltz pattern dance (Viennese for the juniors, Golden for the seniors). However, next year, junior will have to completely change their music up to swap out the cha cha for the rumba--of course, they could do chacha and rumba in both dances, but in one, the chacha is the pattern and in the other the rumba is the pattern. But in any case, next year it will be even harder to do both juniors and seniors.

Thank you for your answer! I don´t understand why the ISU wants to make it even harder for junior teams But it was the same with the compulsory dance, some teams had to learn 3 different dances for Euros, junior and senior worlds in one season.

 

[CARA]

There doesn't seem to be much doubt that ice dancing became much more athletic under IJS. Going forward to next year though, they've kept the lift requirement the same for the SD (1 short and 1 optional transition lift). For the FD, they reduced the optional transition lift to just 1.

I am glad to see that for the FD, they reduced the optional lift to just one. Six lifts on slightly more than a four minutes program seem an awful lot. Though I'm not against the lift per se, lifts can "chop up" the flow of overall choreography, let alone some of those lifts can be dangerous. Those are what I am against.

For instance, in their attempt to push the sport's boundary, especically the Canton group has introduced kind of lifts that the female partners mount on their male partners' thigh with skating blades, e.g., Tessa, Meryl, and Maia. I'm sure their male partners are well-toned/trained, but it cannot be painless.

I probably should start a thread regarding the ice dancing trend towards athletic emphasis, because I have a lot of concerns and ambivalnece.