ISU makes decision on 2015-16 GPF selection

[atsumiri]

Yes, and Hanyu "just needed to skate better in sp" at Skate Canada. And Shoma "just needed to skate better in sp" at Skate America. And Rippon "just needed to skate better in sp" at Cup of Russia. The difference? Every single one of those guys was allowed to redeem themselves through the long program. They weren't unfairly or unduly punished for one sub-par skate.

Same for Liza.... She ''just needed to skate better in SP''..... or TM.... They too ''just needed to skate better in sp".

It's unfair decision. But we can't change it....

 

[HanDomi]

yes, if Hanyu would mess at this event SP and it would end like that it would be his fault, and I am sure he would say the same, that could simply skated better

 

[NoNameFace]

the decision is both good and bad - good because of trying to encounter all circumstances and give best chance to TEB skaters to participate in GPF (still wish all places 7-9 after all 6 events would go to Barcelona...), bad because some of many favourites who were at TEB won't probably go to GPF due to that failed SP.

To be honest, there is no golden solution there - we have to go on with it. There could be e.g. Yuzuru or Mao or Ashley or Weaver/Poje or Elena/Ruslan and so on at TEB and there would be the same sadness and anger. So far, I think that the whole season is very interesting and unpredictable regarding GP series and many things could still happen.

And some off-topic NHK-related - someone could educate me if Shibutanis will win NHK and their total score from both events will be higher than Chock/Bates', they will skate AFTER them in Barcelona?

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Yes, and Hanyu "just needed to skate better in sp" at Skate Canada. And Shoma "just needed to skate better in sp" at Skate America. And Rippon "just needed to skate better in sp" at Cup of Russia. The difference? Every single one of those guys was allowed to redeem themselves through the long program. They weren't unfairly or unduly punished for one sub-par skate.

Oh come on, yes it sucks for Max, but you act as if anyone was trying to throw him out of the final on purpose.
It was a horrible, tragic event that prevented the TEB LPs from happening, and it put the ISU at a major disadvantage anyway. As many posters already said, there is no ideal solution. You want the LPs to be skated in the week before the GPF, but that would mean for Kovtun for example to skate 3 weeks in a row - at least one of those locations in a way different time zone. How is that fair? He'd hardly have time to practice with all that time on plains, and he wouldn't have an equal chance to skate well at the GPF.

And 2 out of your 3 examples there don't even make a lot of sense anyway. Adam isn't making the GPF. Shomas "major bomb" of an SP at SA still put him in 4th, which would have still given him a shot at the GPF (since he won TEB, he'd be in for sure). He was less than 6 points behind 1st. Max was already over 7 points out of 4th.
The only thing that his halfway comparable is Hanyu. If it helps you "accusing" Hanyu fans they'd show the same behavior you to, help yourself, but it's doing nothing for Max.

 

[Noolan]

Oh come on, yes it sucks for Max, but you act as if anyone was trying to throw him out of the final on purpose.

How do we know they weren't? They could've announced it before Cup of Russia when some of those finalists were still not decided. Instead, they waited until it was pretty much decided who goes and who doesn't. That just feels fishy to me, why did they wait? And it's not even about who goes and who doesn't, it's about the reputation of the event, GPF medals just won't mean as much this season.

 

[Interspectator]

How do we know they weren't? They could've announced it before Cup of Russia when some of those finalists were still not decided. Instead, they waited until it was pretty much decided who goes and who doesn't. That just feels fishy to me, why did they wait? And it's not even about who goes and who doesn't, it's about the reputation of the event, GPF medals just won't mean as much this season.

In what scenario would Max be included in the GPF after the SP results of TEB? He's behind Patrick and Murakami and even Han Yan in points.

 

[Noolan]

In what scenario would Max be included in the GPF after the SP results of TEB? He's behind Patrick and Murakami and even Han Yan in points.

I'm not talking about Max specifically, some TEB skaters had chances before CoR with those the new rules.

 

[Interspectator]

I'm not talking about Max specifically, some TEB skaters had chances before CoR with those the new rules.

Which ones? Sorry, I'm not following...

 

[salchowx4]

The decision should have been made before Rostelecom, but other than that, I have no major complaints with how the council has handled this. Good solution to a very unfortunate problem that no one asked for.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

How do we know they weren't? They could've announced it before Cup of Russia when some of those finalists were still not decided. Instead, they waited until it was pretty much decided who goes and who doesn't. That just feels fishy to me, why did they wait? And it's not even about who goes and who doesn't, it's about the reputation of the event, GPF medals just won't mean as much this season.

There's no use looking for a conspiracy when there are quite a lot practical reasons imaginable - for starters, it might simply have taken the ISU that long to really make a decision. It wasn't an easy matter, obviously. It might have taken long to get the okay from Barcelona to possibly add a 7th skater. Maybe they tried to find a way to slot the TEB LPs between NHK and GPF, but only realized pretty late it's not doable. They don't really own us any explanation (the skaters probably, but none of us).

I also don't see which skaters had a better shot under this rules pre-CoR than post-CoR?

 

[4everchan]

Pretty much. Oh, don't say that out loud, apparently it's a great and wonderful thing that he's missing the GPF, because obviously one harshly-scored short program is SO MUCH MORE important than a Grand Prix gold...



He got a low score in ONE SEGMENT of the competition. Every other skater at every other Grand Prix event had the opportunity to change their fate after the SP.

If this had been Hanyu, no way would we be seeing so many people saying "it happens" or "get over it" or "it's his fault"...



So do all of those things need to happen together or just one of them? Stranger things, I suppose...

Karne,

I understand your frustration. I feel similar with G/P… they even skated a decent SD at TEB but were edged out by a few tenths… which they would have gained probably back in the FD… but yet, they most likely will not make the GPF….. that's even more frustrating don't you think so? They would have won their first GP gold medal…. All looked great for them until things got cancelled….

But… I still disagree with you…. Max didn't get a chance… fine… but what is done is done…. You talk about Yuzu… yes… he got a chance…. but see, Liza didn't… and she is out…. (well most likely) … It's not JUST MAX that misses out here… others too...

I think that this shows all of us that even some like the 6.0 system…. under it, Max would still not have had a chance to medal, after his disastrous SP… but nowadays, some skaters have the opportunity to change things….

Finally, considering the battle that US nationals will be, it may be best that Max doesn't go to Barcelona… no other American men are going anyways, so it doesn't advantage the others with the fed (I am mentioning this only because I remember you or someone talking about this in the other thread)…. and if Max had gone, who knows what kind of competition he would have had…. if he had placed last, do you really think it would have sent a great message to the fed?

We never know what will happen the next second… and we ALL have to make decisions that aren't perfect…. everyday of our lives… I think here, the ISU went with the most sensible available decision that is clear cut, no need for interpretation…. Is it 100% fair… NOPE but it's not bad….

Think of it this way… what if Max hadn't pulled up after the SP and remained with these points…. how would you have reacted? You seem to forget that this is also a possibility.

 

[ice coverage]

.... But if Max does not qualify, then I do not want him to go as an alternate, because that would mean someone is injured, and that would be sad for them. ...

Just want to clarify that I of course would never hope for anyone to be injured (whether s/he qualifies for the GPF or not).

An example of the type of silver lining thought that I was trying to convey re Max:
I am happy that Tim Dolensky had a chance to compete at Skate Canada, and that he had a great FS in his GP debut.
But I always was and always will be sad that Josh's injury had forced him to withdraw ... although his withdrawal created the open slot to which Tim was assigned.

 

[Icey]

Boycott lol

 

[leafygreens]

She's going to Warsaw Cup next week, she was entered last minute, so my guess is that Mishin is operating under the assumption that Liza won't go to the GPF, and is getting her another chance to compete before Russian Nationals - I don't think going direct from that SP, and into the pressure cooker situation that is ladies Russian Nationals would be a good idea...

That seems to be a good plan since Liza thrives off more competition opportunities, not less, judging by her packed schedule last year.

 

[silverlake22]

So does it mean:

For men, as long as Boyang, Maxim and Yuzuru end up on the podium,

Javi, Shoma, Boyang, Maxim, Yuzuru, Patrick will be in top 6 and go to final and Dice, being at 7th and having been to TEB, will go as well. Provided that everything goes normal in NHK.

For ladies, as long as Mao, Satoko and Ashley stay on the podium,

Gracie, Evgenia, Elena, Mao, Satoko and Ashley will go to final. Rika and Liza, and Julia will be substitutes.

?

Rika and Liza could still make it, Satoko is not a shoo in, Anna could also make it, and Julia might not be one of the substitutes depending on the results of Courtney, Anna, and Satoko.

Liza can only make it (as a 7th entrant) if Rika also makes it, which would require both Satoko and Anna to not make it.

The best outcome for Liza would be for NHK Results to go as follows:

1.) Mao
2.) Ashley
3.) Anna
4.) Satoko

Then finalists would be:

Mao - 30
Ashley - 28
Gracie - 28
Evgenia - 28
Elena - 26
Rika - 20 (1st of tiebreakers)
Liza - 20 (2nd of tiebreakers)

Alternates: Satoko (20), Anna (20), Julia (18)

Any situation with Satoko in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd would mean Rika and Liza wouldn't make it and any situation with Anna in 1st or 2nd means Rika and Liza wouldn't make it. If Anna is in 2nd and Satoko is 3rd, then Satoko becomes 1st alternate and Liza gets bumped to 3rd alternate. Make sense?

 

[Mathman]

Here is why we do not need to feel sorry for Max Aaron.

Making the Grand Prix Final (unless you win) is not as prestigious, for an American skater, as winning Skate America. Indeed, Skate America predates the Grand Prix by almost two decades and was a big deal in U.S. skating long before the “Championship Series” was a glimmer in Mr. Cinquanta’s eye.

Max joins such skating champions as Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano and Todd Eldredge, along with international stars like Alexei Yagudin and Daisuke Takahashi.

As for the Grand Prix Final, skaters in the not too distant past have been suspected of faking injury just to get out of it.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Here is why we do not need to feel sorry for Max Aaron.

Making the Grand Prix Final (unless you win) is not as prestigious, for an American skater, as winning Skate America. Indeed, Skate America predates the Grand Prix by almost two decades and was a big deal in U.S. skating long before the “Championship Series” was a glimmer in Mr. Cinquanta’s eye.

Max joins such skating champions as Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano and Todd Eldredge, along with international stars like Alexei Yagudin and Daisuke Takahashi.

Yes, we all know World's Best In The USA is better than just World's Best. :yes:

As for the Grand Prix Final, skaters in the not too distant past have been suspected of faking injury just to get out of it.

Here is a great place and now is a great time for name dropping.

 

[Winnie_20]

As for the Grand Prix Final, skaters in the not too distant past have been suspected of faking injury just to get out of it.

To me, that says everything about the skater (and nothing good), and nothing about the GPF. :disagree:

I honestly don't get why people seem to think that the GPF is "less" prestigious this year, just because one or two high class skaters don't make the top six. Surely, winning a men's competition with Yuzuru Hanyu (presumably), Patrick Chan and Javier Fernandez cannot be called anything but prestigious, and I don't think the other three senior events are anything less prestigious due to maybe missing a few big names.

 

[Violet Bliss]

To me, that says everything about the skater (and nothing good), and nothing about the GPF. :disagree:

I honestly don't get why people seem to think that the GPF is "less" prestigious this year, just because one or two high class skaters don't make the top six. Surely, winning a men's competition with Yuzuru Hanyu (presumably), Patrick Chan and Javier Fernandez cannot be called anything but prestigious, and I don't think the other three senior events are anything less prestigious due to maybe missing a few big names.

Personally, I rank GPF after only the Olympics and Worlds. As well, for years now, I hold 4CC at a place of higher esteem than the Euro.

But, of course, many people hold on to old status quo and sense of superiority. Even the prize money is higher for Euro than for 4CC.

It may have something to do with ISU being run by mostly Europeans. :think: No Asian officials AFAIK.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

To me, that says everything about the skater (and nothing good), and nothing about the GPF. :disagree:

I honestly don't get why people seem to think that the GPF is "less" prestigious this year, just because one or two high class skaters don't make the top six. Surely, winning a men's competition with Yuzuru Hanyu (presumably), Patrick Chan and Javier Fernandez cannot be called anything but prestigious, and I don't think the other three senior events are anything less prestigious due to maybe missing a few big names.

I don't get it either. "The big names" are mostly still there, aren't they? And it's not as if some of those big names didn't manage to bomb themselves out of GPF spots in previous seasons (remember when Mao didn't make the GPF in 2010, reigning WC and OSM that she was? Did that make that event count for nothing?).

If the mens field turns out to be Hanyu, Fernandez, Chan, Uno, Kovtun and Jin + Murakami, that's a really amazing field and winning that event will mean just as much as it would have any other year.