ISU plans for 2020 World Championships, Congress and follow up

[Edwin]

http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...timing-of-discussion-for-bigger-future-worlds

For our discussion.

 

[lariko]

I am surprised that the idea of virtual congress was not considered, given that there is not much else to do atm for all those officials. Surely, they can manage internet connections in 2020...

 

[ice coverage]

I am surprised that the idea of virtual congress was not considered, given that there is not much else to do atm for all those officials. Surely, they can manage internet connections in 2020...

For those who have not read the full article:

Seems that the idea of a virtual congress was not overlooked, although not "seriously considered."
There were other concerns besides internet connections.

"Voting on such proposals in time for them to take effect in 2023 is the reason for having a postponed Congress in 2021. The idea of doing it virtually has so far not been seriously considered because of the usual length of the proceedings, the number of people involved in discussions, the different time zones in play and concerns that internet reception may not be 100 percent reliable."​

(The 2020 Congress was scheduled from June 8 - 12.
There would have been many, many hours of meetings over those days.

The schedule for the 2018 Congress had a grand total of 26 hours of meetings [I have removed meals and such]:

Monday, June 4 -- total of 6 hours

09.00 – 12.30 (approx) Congress – agenda items A.1 – A.16
14.00 - 15.30 (approx) Workshops (held simultaneously divided by Branch)
Technical Rule amendments Figure Skating Branch (as per Art. 33, para 9.d)
Technical Rule amendments Speed Skating Branch (as per Art. 32, para 9.d)
16.00 - 17.00 Congress – agenda items A.17-A.19
17.15 - 18.00 Election voting procedure rehearsal​

Tuesday, June 5 -- total of 6.5 hours

09.00 - 12.30 Congress – agenda items A.18-A.19
14.00 - 17.00 Congress – agenda items A18-A.19​

Wednesday, June 6 -- 3.5 hours

09.00 - 12.30 Congress – agenda items A.18-A.19 (if not completed before)
Alternatively to be held simultaneously
Speed Skating Branch Session – agenda items B.1-B.11
Figure Skating Branch Session – agenda items C.1-C.11​

Thursday, June 7 -- total of 6.5 hours

09.00 - 12.30 Speed Skating Branch Session – agenda items B.1-B.11
Figure Skating Branch Session – agenda items C.1-C.11
14.00 – 17.00 Speed Skating Branch Session – agenda items B.1-B.11
Figure Skating Branch Session – agenda items C.1-C.11​

Friday, June 8 -- total of 3.5 hours

09.00 – 11.00 (approx.) Congress – agenda items D.20-D.31
11.00 – 11.30 (approx.) Speed Skating Branch Session – agenda items B.12-B.17
11.30 – 12.15 (approx.) Figure Skating Branch Session – agenda items C.12-C.18
12.15 – 13.00 (approx.) Congress – agenda items D.32-D.37​

About 250 delegates [individual people as part of federations] attended the 2018 Congress, along with approx. 80 ISU officials.
For federations with both figure skating and speed skating branches, each branch gets its own vote -- approx. 120 votes total at the 2018 Congress.)

 

[skylark]

I hadn't been following discussions of changes to take place in 2022-23 season, if there were any. So I'm interested that one proposal is to raise the number of entries at Worlds, to include more countries. Established countries would not have their qualifying numbers raised. So still, a maximum of 3 from any one country. I like that proposal.

 

[Edwin]

I am surprised that the idea of virtual congress was not considered, given that there is not much else to do atm for all those officials. Surely, they can manage internet connections in 2020...

ISU brass and their spouses probably won't deny themselves business class flights to a posh resort with all expenses covered ....

 

[el henry]

As someone who has suffered through Zoom meetings during this time, I cannot imagine a gathering like the ISU being conducted electronically. Zippity doo dah to do with costs, and everything to do with: how to ensure each and every person speaks? How do they ensure Roberts Rules of Order, or whatever procedure they use? How do they ensure secure voting? (Sorry, I have had to address these issues recently, so I am geeking out. these questions do not have easy answers).

I love love love LOVE the proposal having more countries qualify and more participation at Worlds, and that ISU acknowledges this will reward small feds for all their hard work and help encourage figure skating popularity throughout the world:agree:

 

[lariko]

They have 4 or 5 months to figure it out with potential eventual cost savings way into the future

 

[Mathman]

I hadn't been following discussions of changes to take place in 2022-23 season, if there were any. So I'm interested that one proposal is to raise the number of entries at Worlds, to include more countries. Established countries would not have their qualifying numbers raised. So still, a maximum of 3 from any one country. I like that proposal.

I love love love LOVE the proposal having more countries qualify and more participation at Worlds, and that ISU acknowledges this will reward small feds for all their hard work and help encourage figure skating popularity throughout the world:agree:

Quite interesting actually. I think that most of the discussion among fans has run in the opposite direction -- that very successful countries like Russia and Japan should get extra spots because, after all, this is supposed to be a World Championship where the best skaters in the world (never mind nationality) gather to fight it out.

Evidently this point of view has not gathered any traction with the ISU leadership. The most compelling consideration seems to be that the ISU can make more money by encouraging governments of small federation countries to invest in figure skating, and to be able to tell them, "See? Your investment paid off -- you're going to the world championship!"

Another idea that I think is worthy of consideration is this: instead of having an expanded qualifying round maybe there could be a series of regional qualifying events to see who makes it to the big show. This could be more exciting for the skaters and more interesting to the fans than to invite a lot of marginally qualified competitors to attend a huge event when their entire experience ends up being 4 minutes long and a point total that only proves that they shouldn't have been there in the first place.

On the other hand, a rising skater from a tiny federation could take legitimate pride in placing well at Regionals, with aspirations to up the ante (both individually and nationally) the next year.

 

[Harriet]

I very much approve of the idea of giving more Worlds access (and more opprtunity of federal funding) to small federation skaters via a qualifying round, but a hard limit on the number of entries to the SP following that seems counterproductive. How about using TES minimums instead: a lower limit to qualify for the competition at all, a moderate one to access the SP, and if 42 skaters make the SP the TV networks can just live with it. Then cut to 24 at the FS as usual.

And definitely never, ever, ever expand the number of slots available per country unless it's done on the same basis as Four Continents, in which every country has the same right to send 3 skaters who have the minimums. Expanding access for small fed skaters while giving dominant federations even more of an opportunity to choke all the oxygen out of the room is even more counterproductive than limiting access to the SP based on broadcasters' schedules.

 

[lariko]

Quite interesting actually. I think that most of the discussion among fans has run in the opposite direction -- that very successful countries like Russia and Japan should get extra spots because, after all, this is supposed to be a World Championship where the best skaters in the world (never mind nationality) gather to fight it out.

Evidently this point of view has not gathered any traction with the ISU leadership. The most compelling consideration seems to be that the ISU can make more money by encouraging governments of small federation countries to invest in figure skating, and to be able to tell them, "See? Your investment paid off -- you're going the world championship!"

Another idea that I think is worthy of consideration is this: instead of having an expanded qualifying round maybe there could be a series of regional qualifying events to see who makes it to the big show. This could be more exciting for the skaters and more interesting to the fans than to invite a lot of marginally qualified competitors to attend a huge event when their entire experience ends up being 4 minutes long and a point total that only proves that they shouldn't have been there in the first place.

On the other hand, a rising skater from a tiny federation could take legitimate pride in placing well at Regionals, with aspirations to up the ante (both individually and nationally) the next year.

I am sure they will appreciate even the qualifying round. Honestly, why not?

if I was to dream, I would love to get an expanded Grand Prix with more than 6 manageable sized events, that ends up selecting the 24 for the Worlds/GPF the way it is seeded and calculated now. There is by far more ways to put a lot more skaters on the international stage, and the (more or less) objectively better skaters could be advanced to skate for the final round.

I dunno, I guess I just like the GP format/idea more than the second half of the season.

 

[Mathman]

...Expanding access for small fed skaters while giving dominant federations even more of an opportunity to choke all the oxygen out of the room...

I have mixed feelings. I don't think it would suck all the oxygen out of the room if the World Championship featured Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaia AND Zagitova, Medvedeva and Tuktamysheva. I, for one, would watch.

 

[el henry]

I recently saw an IG Live with Donovan Carrillo where he talked about his proudest moment making the long program in Milan Worlds. I love those moments for small fed skaters who have to overcome so much just to be there, and I want to see more of them.

I am less enthralled about seeing the "best". Three of the best from each country is plenty and all we need; that's why it's "Worlds". Invite the World. And if, for example, my Andrew T. from a strong fed doesn't go and Donovan does, that's fine by me:thumbsup:

I have no problem with some super duper GPF with ten skaters from one country. If I liked the skaters, I'd watch, if I didn't, I wouldn't. I'd probably find it boring, but who knows:scratch3:

 

[Harriet]

I don't think it would suck all the oxygen out of the room if the World Championship featured Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornia AND Zagitova, Medvedeva and Tuktamysheva. I, for one, would watch.

And I wouldn't.

 

[YuBluByMe]

And definitely never, ever, ever expand the number of slots available per country unless it's done on the same basis as Four Continents, in which every country has the same right to send 3 skaters who have the minimums. Expanding access for small fed skaters while giving dominant federations even more of an opportunity to choke all the oxygen out of the room is even more counterproductive than limiting access to the SP based on broadcasters' schedules.

I agree, but for a much different reason. The best thing for a figure skater is domestic competition and such competition is only truly successful if there’s risk. If you’re outside the top three in your nation but still guaranteed a spot at major international competitions, you won’t have incentive to improve. You think Tuktamysheva and Medvedeva will be training quads if they could compete outside of Russia without them? They wouldn’t as they’re only doing it now because the three spots are hypothetically taken. Think Miyahara just woke up in the morning, talking about a 3A? Of course she didn’t. Look at the American women. I’ll bet good money that we won’t see a 4 or a 3A attempt from either Tennell or Bell in competition until their spots are no longer a given. So let these girls grind and grind and put some blood, sweat, and tears in to climb back to the top three in their country if they can and earn their ticket back.

The skaters from smaller feds are hungry and eager to prove themselves. They don’t need any pushing. They will walk through the doors themselves if only given the opportunity.

 

[noskates]

I personally think they should not change the number of participants. I don't want to see several countries totally dominate what's supposed to be a "world" competition. Any skater who puts in the hours and hours of practice and the sacrifice of a normal childhood for the love of their sport should have a chance to compete. I could honestly see more skaters leaving the countries of their birth, whole federations just dissolving, and figure skating becoming even more elite than it is today. In my opinion this would be a terrible idea.

 

[Mathman]

If you’re outside the top three in your nation but still guaranteed a spot at major international competitions, you won’t have incentive to improve. You think Tuktamysheva and Medvedeva will be training quads if they could compete outside of Russia without them?

I think that Tuktamysheva and the others do not just want to skate at Worlds, they wants to win. These are competitive athletes (and in fact, former world champions). I don't think their mind set is, if I get to compete outside Russia I'll be happy to finish eighth.

Three of the best from each country is plenty and all we need; that's why it's "Worlds". Invite the World.

I think there is another way to look at it. Alina Zagitova is part of the World just like the skater from some other country is. She is not suddenly a Martian just because Trusova and the others do well. It depends on whether we think of "The World" as meaning all the nations in the world or all the people in the world.

To me, a laudable goal would be to give every skater, from whatever country, an equal chance to earn a spot at the championships.

(But then again, the Parade of Nations concept is cool, too. There is a reason why the most watched sport in the Olympics is the opening ceremonies -- all those flags!)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I am surprised that the idea of virtual congress was not considered, given that there is not much else to do atm for all those officials. Surely, they can manage internet connections in 2020...

They couldn’t even pass a proposal allowing them to move beyond CD technology at the last Congress.

 

[TrishaG]

Another idea that I think is worthy of consideration is this: instead of having an expanded qualifying round maybe there could be a series of regional qualifying events to see who makes it to the big show. This could be more exciting for the skaters and more interesting to the fans than to invite a lot of marginally qualified competitors to attend a huge event when their entire experience ends up being 4 minutes long and a point total that only proves that they shouldn't have been there in the first place.

On the other hand, a rising skater from a tiny federation could take legitimate pride in placing well at Regionals, with aspirations to up the ante (both individually and nationally) the next year.

This would be nice for fans, but since most small federations have issues with funding, it could be difficult for them to attend such competitions. They already attend continental championships and hopefully Worlds. If you add a regional competition, that might make it difficult for them to afford to go to Worlds as well.

 

[SkateSkates]

I think an interesting solution would be to also hold a top 24 SB competition at the end of the season - that way the small fed skaters get their shot at worlds with the increased fields, and skaters from strong feds have a large high profile event in the 2nd half of the season to stay motivated for.

 

[Andrea82]

Decisions of ISU Council taken today

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-...12-decisions-of-the-council-april-6-2020/file

Among other things, they confirm that Pattern Dances for all Novice categories and the Rhythm Dance for Juniors and Seniors will stay the ones used for this season.