ISU Statement on Bell and Lim

[withwings]

It would be much better if this thread would be closed.

 

[Charlotte 71]

"One last remark, to all the folk here who are doubting there can be a cultural misunderstanding at play here - don't underestimate it where two very different cultures are involved. I have seen a user leave a forum because they were feeling threatened, offended and bullied by something as normal to many here as slang language and stuck-out tongue smileys, which were by them interpreted in the opposite way than they were intended (as mockery rather than friendliness). It was a cultural misunderstanding, and the 'offender' wasn't even aware how the upset user was feeling. And that's just one entirely insignificant example. To me, it's not out of the realm of impossibility that there were misunderstandings involved in this big issue. "

I think it's possible too, and I hope it doesn't seem condescending or like I'm relying on stereotypes to say that Eunsoo is young and could be quite sheltered and shy. I don't know anything more about Korean culture than the average layperson, but it seems like Americans are more extraverted, outspoken and direct, and maybe that can come across as overfamiliarity, especially when a very young girl who is new to a place comes in contact with adults of a different culture and a different stage of life. Adults who are already established in that environment. Maybe some sort of teasing seemed like just having fun or breaking the ice (so to speak) to one party but was frightening to the other. Maybe what an American thinks of as a friendly, steady gaze is felt as staring. And Eunsoo is going through all of this integration in her new training environment with a language barrier. It's hard to say without knowing what actually went on, and Mariah has travelled all over the world and should be at least somewhat aware of cultural differences, so who knows.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

It's entirely possible that Eunsoo believes it was an attack, based on her previous rumored disagreements with Mariah, while Mariah believes it was a complete accident. Both of those things can be true. That's why an investigation is important.

 

[AKGROWN]

She could've apologized right after the incident and she didn't. Regardless of whether the accusations are true or not it made me like her a lot less. Who cuts up someone's leg accidently and just skates away :noshake:

Bell didn't know it occurred. You make it sound like she ran up to her and stabbed her, then skated away. That's not what is alleged to have occurred. In fact, we don't know for sure what occurred.

 

[sk8ath]

Her agency did everything to protect their skater. How could we know there’s something going on in Lakewood without their revealing? If they didn’t take a action like this, poor eunsoo would been go through this hardship on her own. Why do you think Eunsoo mother videotaped her practices and give it to her agency person? Her mother knew she ’s been bullied that’s why she taped her practice and gave it to her agency person.

If this agency really protects Eunsoo, they will just announce everything after the FS, NOT during the competition.

 

[BeTheLivingProof]

I hate to speculate on any of this until we have more info (which we may never have), but it would have been impossible for Mariah to have planned this. In practice for Worlds, would this have been at the front of her mind? Possible, but I doubt it. I think this particular incident was an accident, but it’s the bullying allegations I’m more concerned with. I do not want to think any skater would cause all this without good reason. Its a shame this all had to come to light before the FS and I hope it doesn’t affect either of their performances.

 

[skaterr]

If this agency really protects Eunsoo, they will just announce everything after the FS, NOT during the competition.

Her agency got completely flipped when she was attacked only 6 hours before her competition. They need to protect their skater. They knew this bully for months and didn’t do anything.

 

[believed]

I hope Eunsoo is okay. The ISU statement doesn’t change that she is injured and in pain. And also it doesn’t absolve anyone just that they haven’t found anything.

I feel like for me that is the biggest question. Eunsoo is a minor who was training in a foreign country. If legitimate issues have arisen that have affected her, I hope it’s resolved.

I don’t think it’s right to spam Mariah’s IG with insults and hope she isn’t looking at her phone or turned off her notificationsZ

I agree with all of this. It seems her injury has been lost in the aftermath of this. And I hope they (whoever) will look seriously into the claims of bullying.

Those claiming racism toward the Koreans should also take a deep breath - considering how this has been reported by non-reputable outlets (e.g. All KPop had a very misleading headline that went viral for example, although this is for an international audience, not a Korean audience), it's natural that some are making easy conclusions and throwing daggers. With that said, the impression has been set and Mariah will receive some level of hate from fans regardless of fault.

However, a lot of the ways people have been writing about this HAS contained certain racist elements in speaking about Eunsoo, her representation, and the culture they do not know.

I think it's possible too, and I hope it doesn't seem condescending or like I'm relying on stereotypes to say that Eunsoo is young and could be quite sheltered and shy. I don't know anything more about Korean culture than the average layperson, but it seems like Americans are more extraverted, outspoken and direct, and maybe that can come across as overfamiliarity, especially when a very young girl who is new to a place comes in contact with adults of a different culture and a different stage of life. Adults who are already established in that environment. Maybe some sort of teasing seemed like just having fun or breaking the ice (so to speak) to one party but was frightening to the other. Maybe what an American thinks of as a friendly, steady gaze is felt as staring. And Eunsoo is going through all of this integration in her new training environment with a language barrier. It's hard to say without knowing what actually went on, and Mariah has travelled all over the world and should be at least somewhat aware of cultural differences, so who knows.

This does seem condescending and relying on stereotypes, sorry!

 

[labgoat]

Uh... something minor? Small bandage?? What did you want to see? Blood flowing out of her leg??? She was visibly in pain. From the pictures we have I don't know how Mariah didn't realize she had hit someone. Just because a skater managed to skate even after an injury doesn't mean the injury was minor. Skaters are tough cookies, we've seen multiple examples of that. In the article I read it was stated that Mariah didn't apologize because her music had already started. So, I don't think she didn't apologize because she didn't know Eunsoo was hurt but because she was in the middle of her runthrough and couldn't bother to check on Eunsoo, which leads me to believe that either she didn't think it was serious and didn't see Eunsoo's reaction or she saw it and ignored it because she was focused on her program.
This reminds me of Tessa getting hit by another skater's blade during warmup, she was clearly hurt(she still had a scar weeks later) but the skater didn't even look back, didn't apologize at all. These things happen. To me it always look like poor sportsmanship to hit someone and completely ignore it. But I understand Mariah was focusing on herself.
But again, I think there is something going on between them two and that is the reason for all this, not some "ulterior motive". There's a lot of people implying ATS/Eunsoo has something to gain from this. I fail to see what.

Here is a link to this particular incident at 5:25 if i did not do the time stamp correctly.
https://youtu.be/Yq1KYS2UWQE?t=190

 

[surimi]

It would be much better if this thread would be closed.

Yes please! I vote for this. Some comments are really getting out of control.

 

[whatif]

I got two news alerts on my phone today one from BBC NEWS and one form Telegraph about this. :eeking: This is the first time ever FS competition made headlines in major UK media.
Can't wait for the movie starring Jlaw and Lucy Liu.

 

[shine]

Her agency got completely flipped when she was attacked only 6 hours before her competition. They need to protect their skater. They knew this bully for months and didn’t do anything.

Let's call it "bully" instead of bully before more facts to back up this accusation have been provided. They also accused Bell of exhibiting racism. You don't have to state these as if were a proven fact.

 

[noraaa]

This does seem condescending and relying on stereotypes, sorry!

I am not the person you responded to but my impression - if you completely leave the two girls' nationalities out of it to avoid stereotypes, it is still plausible to believe that communication between them involved misunderstandings on both sides as to how comments or interactions were received.

I am not saying Mariah did not bully Eunsoo because of course I do not know and it would be absolutely wrong of me to say anything to that effect. It is not for us to speculate on this but rather the ISU's and the feds' responsibility to investigate fully.

But speaking on a practical level, in highly competitive sport with multiple competitors at the same rink, and when the skaters have been with the coach for differing amounts of time, perhaps have different approaches and attitudes about practice and are different ages, it is completely possible that simple interactions have been misinterpreted on one side or another. Not saying this is fact in this situation but i have personally seen it in other situations in competitive sports and truly, in those situations, no one person was at fault but rather a series of misinterpreted comments and interactions led to very hard feelings for both involved parties.

I suppose what I am saying is we ought to try to refrain from speculating about racism or bad intentions, understand that bullying may have indeed happened (which should be punished if found out) OR it could all be a misunderstanding and we have no way of knowing.

I hope this makes sense. I do not mean to demean the accusations in any way since I have no special knowledge and we must all wait for the ISU and feds to determine what must be done. The truth will come out in time.

 

[hanyuufan5]

Someone please shut down this trainwreck of a thread!

Praying for Eunsoo and Mariah.

Regardless of what happened, this media circus is unnecessary and unhelpful.

Good Lord, there's even less evidence here than in the last FS media circus.

Even if these allegations are true, ONE DAY, SOME ALLEGATIONS WON'T BE.

"Innocent until proven guilty" ain't what it used to be.

 

[Osmond4gold]

How terribly distracting this must be for these skaters and I feel badly for both. It is a sport and things happen which while unfortunate, there was no intent here. If I had a dollar for every time Jamie Sale got hit or flattened by a competitor in warm up, yet she always reacted with grace and forgiveness. I just hate the fact that internet trolls who know nothing about this sport, are now judging us as they love fresh meat.

Ladies, please put this aside and I hope you are both able to skate lights out tomorrow.

 

[Ophelia]

Someone please shut down this trainwreck of a thread!

Praying for Eunsoo and Mariah.

Regardless of what happened, this media circus is unnecessary and unhelpful.

Good Lord, there's even less evidence here than in the last FS media circus.

Even if these allegations are true, ONE DAY, SOME ALLEGATIONS WON'T BE.

"Innocent until proven guilty" ain't what it used to be.

I'm going to point out that innocent until proven guilty is a LEGAL principle that holds water specifically for judicial systems. It has no bearing on the court of public opinion, although people like to keep throwing it around as if it does.

 

[Charlotte 71]

I agree with all of this. It seems her injury has been lost in the aftermath of this. And I hope they (whoever) will look seriously into the claims of bullying.


However, a lot of the ways people have been writing about this HAS contained certain racist elements in speaking about Eunsoo, her representation, and the culture they do not know.


This does seem condescending and relying on stereotypes, sorry!

Aw crap.. now I feel like I'm being stereotyped as a person who stereotypes. Okay, here goes my correction: Not every young teen getting to know adults who speak a different mother tongue is automatically shy, and Asians have every right to be obnoxious, pranking loudmouths if they want to be. How's that?

 

[Crossover]

Well. whether the allegation raised by Eunsoo Lim's agency is true or not, the fact is Mariah Bell who has injured Eunsoo's leg with/out her malicious intention according to the Korean news, Bell has not apologized Eunsoo for the injury in public that she caused. That's very disturbing and creepy. They are training mates to each other for a year and it is hard to believe Bell as a veteran who is almost as close to the age for retirement (realistically speaking) didn't seem t to know her blades hit somebody's body and it would not be painful while she approached Eunsoo's back. I used to skate for hobby, so I don't buy her boy friend's blind defense that Eunsoo is a liar while her girl friend is innocent honestly speaking. It is also hard to believe Rafael prevented her from apologizing her "mistake" to Eunsoo as Eunsoo obviously felt pain, shed tears and went out for medical examination.

Bell should've apologized for her action causing the harm to Eunso during the practice, but she hasn't and has kept silent. It is a poor excuse for the alleged bullying or intentional interference that Bell wouldn've not done such horrendous things, well we've faced horrendous things to have happened in real life when it comes to seemingly good people doing harms. The defenders for Mariah on social media spread unfounded rumors that Eunsoo is a trouble maker in the club which also doesn't also excuse Mariah's alleged behavior. if it were true or not , I hope that clear footage or more hard evidences comes out soon for clarification for the skate of Eunsoo and Mariah. The incident has been dubbed as the second Tonya Harding vs Nancy Kerrigan and damages the image of figure skating to the public. That's very regretful.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Y’all are going all in on this one

 

[DSQ]

Yeah let’s kill this thread.