Ivan Desyatov suspended by SafeSport

[Karoltyna]

Yeah, what is puzzling is that she lodged police report in France instead of Croatia in April 2024 (and also didn't lodge with safesport in April but only in sep) when the Croatia police and safesport is better placed with resources and jurisdiction to investigate. Not sure how french police can go into another country to gather evidence like hotel cctv footage.

Nothing puzzling really. After SA your brain doesn't work on the highest level of logic. I don't know about Croatia and how they deal with SA (I can assume things aren't very different than in Poland, so it's far from good), I know that Solene doesn't know Croatian and I don't know how fluent she is in English (and when you experience trauma you may not be able to speak foregin language) and as a person who visits Croatia every 1-2 years, that not everyone there knows English. Some older people know some German. I know 3 languages (English, German, Polish) and sometimes I had to speak Polish because Polish and Croatian are similar to some extend. So I don't thing there is anything wrong with her not reporting on spot. BTW her coach said she would contact SafeSport. Maybe she wasn't aware thing weren't reported to the SafeSport until September?

 

[Karoltyna]

My 'knowledge' comes from FBI international, so take it with a grain of salt, but they had an episode with one of EE countries, and roofies-related SA was basically impossible to prosecute there, so it may have been a factor. Different criminal codexes interpret consent differently and in too many countries it is way, way too lenient. God only knows why obtaining a loud, clear and enthusiastic consent prior is such a hard concept to grasp for some...

In PL criminal code was recently changed and explicit consent will be mandatory. Some assaulters used to claim that they were sure that she said "no" because she wanted him to "increase the efforts" or do some role play (don't ask, I don't know how the assaulter's brains work...). Some judges and prosecutors used to inquire why the victim didn't shout or fight or in the victim's action was enough. When they discussed changing criminal code there was quite the havoc and some tried to reduce the discussion to absurdity by asking "so I have to take her to the notary and confirm that she agrees to sleep with me?". Some people are vile, some are just stupid. The parilament voted for the change and it will take effect in February. It remains to be seen if it changes anything for the victims.

 

[lariko]

In PL criminal code was recently changed and explicit consent will be mandatory. Some assaulters used to claim that they were sure that she said "no" because she wanted him to "increase the efforts" or do some role play (don't ask, I don't know how the assaulter's brains work...). Some judges and prosecutors used to inquire why the victim didn't shout or fight or in the victim's action was enough. When they discussed changing criminal code there was quite the havoc and some tried to reduce the discussion to absurdity by asking "so I have to take her to the notary and confirm that she agrees to sleep with me?". Some people are vile, some are just stupid. The parilament voted for the change and it will take effect in February. It remains to be seen if it changes anything for the victims.

Yes, exactly. Seriously, it's not hard to spot enthusiasm in a romantic situation. If you need a notary to spot the difference, honestly, get one, because you're hopeless in humaning. Glad Poland upgraded its code to clear consent.

 

[withwings]

I have no idea how all this above discussion is related what Desyakov did. What Desyakov did is beyond any human comprehension, even animal would be more merciful.

 

[lariko]

I have no idea how all this above discussion is related what Desyakov did. What Desyakov did is beyond any human comprehension, even animal would be more merciful.

That was in answer to the question why the charges against Desyatov may have been leveled in France, not in Croatia based on some specifics of the charges that were so far publicly disclosed.

 

[gsk8]

 

[Lamente Ariane]

Yikes.

Let me start by saying that Isabella should not be held responsible for her partner’s actions, and I absolutely understand and sympathize with what a difficult position she’s been put in here. However, I think this is a very ill-considered statement that reflects poorly on her, as does the comments she’s been liking. There are multiple implications here that are callous/self-involved at best, and at worst may suggest her trying to drum up sympathy for a predator and smearing the real victim’s character.

There’s many facts in this case that are not public knowledge, and I’d rather not speculate beyond what is logical to assume. So let’s start with the first piece of logic, based in fact: Ivan Desyatov has been banned from competition. This is a fact. Bans for misconduct are not so easily handed down, as most figure skating fans should know by now—an accusation was not enough to result in a ban for Nikolaj Sorensen! He was not banned after one accusation, but after a fuller investigation took place. Therefore it seems logical to me to assume that Desyatov was banned because more evidence was provided than one person’s verbal account.

This being the case, why is Flores saying “Justice should be served… but only after proper investigation takes place”? A proper investigation has taken place, clearly—perhaps it has not concluded, but “this is not justice” is a frankly wild thing to say under the circumstances, given the alleged evidence. It is hard not to conclude from this that she simply believes it is not just because her partner was found guilty enough to ban, and the only acceptable “justice” would be acquittal regardless of the evidence. To read Flores’s statement one would assume no such evidence exists and this had merely been a matter of rumors and speculation, not a matter taken to police and officials who if anything, tend to favor the accused over the accuser.

If she truly does not intend to interfere with due process, she might want to start by not riling up sentiment in favor of one party and egging on those eager to attack his victim. Better to make no statement at all, or simply say she has been trying to prioritize her own mental health. And in light of all that I find it particularly infuriating how she reframes “recent accusations” as something primarily affecting herself and praises herself for “not becoming a victim of circumstance or self pity” when this entire statement smacks of defensiveness, self pity and an passive-aggressive attempt to direct her followers against Solene. And in doing so she has lost my sympathy, completely.

 

[el henry]

I see nothing wrong with Isabella's statement. (I don't know what comments she has been liking.). I also don't know what the hateful comments are: if hate has been directed at her, why aren't you saying more, why aren't you doing this and that, then yes, it should stop. If she is referring to something else, I would need to know what she is referring to.

A proper investigation determining guilt or innocence has not taken place. To use American civil law: A preliminary injunction has been issued, a final judgment has not been rendered.

To say this IN NO WAY diminishes the accusation or the seriousness of sexual assault. IF Vanya is found guilty, the book should be thrown at him, he should be in jail, and never heard from again. We still need that finding and resolution.

ETA: and before anyone cites it, I put no stock in the "study" about the percentage false accusations. I don't have time or effort to discuss it now, but the data is not good for me. As I said, the resolution may be that this happened. In which case, beyond reprehensible. There is no resolution yet.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Yikes.

Let me start by saying that Isabella should not be held responsible for her partner’s actions, and I absolutely understand and sympathize with what a difficult position she’s been put in here. However, I think this is a very ill-considered statement that reflects poorly on her, as does the comments she’s been liking. There are multiple implications here that are callous/self-involved at best, and at worst may suggest her trying to drum up sympathy for a predator and smearing the real victim’s character.

There’s many facts in this case that are not public knowledge, and I’d rather not speculate beyond what is logical to assume. So let’s start with the first piece of logic, based in fact: Ivan Desyatov has been banned from competition. This is a fact. Bans for misconduct are not so easily handed down, as most figure skating fans should know by now—an accusation was not enough to result in a ban for Nikolaj Sorensen! He was not banned after one accusation, but after a fuller investigation took place. Therefore it seems logical to me to assume that Desyatov was banned because more evidence was provided than one person’s verbal account.

This being the case, why is Flores saying “Justice should be served… but only after proper investigation takes place”? A proper investigation has taken place, clearly—perhaps it has not concluded, but “this is not justice” is a frankly wild thing to say under the circumstances, given the alleged evidence. It is hard not to conclude from this that she simply believes it is not just because her partner was found guilty enough to ban, and the only acceptable “justice” would be acquittal regardless of the evidence. To read Flores’s statement one would assume no such evidence exists and this had merely been a matter of rumors and speculation, not a matter taken to police and officials who if anything, tend to favor the accused over the accuser.

If she truly does not intend to interfere with due process, she might want to start by not riling up sentiment in favor of one party and egging on those eager to attack his victim. Better to make no statement at all, or simply say she has been trying to prioritize her own mental health. And in light of all that I find it particularly infuriating how she reframes “recent accusations” as something primarily affecting herself and praises herself for “not becoming a victim of circumstance or self pity” when this entire statement smacks of defensiveness, self pity and an passive-aggressive attempt to direct her followers against Solene. And in doing so she has lost my sympathy, completely.

Honestly, I think you're reading too much into the statement. She's not said outright anything that proves any of the conclusions you're jumping to about her views on the case or her motivations.

I think you may be taking her comments about online speculation personally. Online comments and speculation is not a substitute for a thorough investigation.

The Sørenson case was dealt with by Canadian authorities and involved a different set of circumstances.

 

[Ziotic]

Honestly, I think you're reading too much into the statement. She's not said outright anything that proves any of the conclusions you're jumping to about her views on the case or her motivations.

I think you may be taking her comments about online speculation personally. Online comments and speculation is not a substitute for a thorough investigation.

The Sørenson case was dealt with by Canadian authorities and involved a different set of circumstances.

IMHO she should have kept her mouth shut. Her statement comes off poorly in my view.

It’s obviously a mess since he’s also her husband but to me she’s trying to do damage control for her skating career, but let’s face it, she will never see the international stage. She has had two high profile partnership implosions.

 

[FlossieH]

I actually think Isabella's statement is pretty balanced. She has maintained a neutral stance and carefully avoided making any claims or judgments about guilt or innocence. She has not said anything which would be likely to influence a trial or put her in contempt of court (not sure what the US equivalent is of that). I am not sure what term she could have used other than recent accusations ('recent allegations' perhaps? - but that is basically the same thing as saying recent accusations). Yes, what Desyatov has been accused of is very serious, and I do not in any way wish to minimise that, but at the moment it is still an accusation/allegation. Nothing has been proven yet, and I don't think any criminal charges have even been made to date. Things need to follow due process, and justice (in whatever form that takes) needs to be based on a thorough analysis of the evidence. Trial by keyboard warriors on social media, who are not privy to the full evidence, is not due process or justice.

You cannot compare the Sorensen case because that was dealt with in the Canadian system.

 

[DemTuppesSeine]

What I find problematic is that Isabella is apparently deleting comments from people defending Solène, and that she is also blocking the people who wrote those comments. I haven't read what people are writing, but it happened to one of my friends whom I don't imagine to have written anything that attacked Isabella personally or was being hateful...

 

[Karoltyna]

She should find PR agency. If she has one, they aren't doing the job. The statement tries to be balanced but there are some expressions that make it sound dismissive to the victim and all about Bella being hurt because of haters and misinformation and having to end the season.
She should either remain silent or say she is taking a break to sort things out.

 

[Karoltyna]

What I find problematic is that Isabella is apparently deleting comments from people defending Solène, and that she is also blocking the people who wrote those comments. I haven't read what people are writing, but it happened to one of my friends whom I don't imagine to have written anything that attacked Isabella personally or was being hateful...

TBH Bella should learn from Angelika Szymańska - she was Polish fav for olympic medal in Paris but lost to a Mexican girl who later won silver. Some of "fans", who obviously were very new to judo and didn't get the idea of the sport, attacked the Mexican for being a man (ofc she isn't). Angelika made a firm statement that these accusations are wrong and shouldn't ever take place. This is how you manage your fans, not by endorsing these comments with likes. Maybe Bella's statment wouldn't be so bad if she added "please don't comment on this situation or Solene".

 

[SnowWhite]

What I find problematic is that Isabella is apparently deleting comments from people defending Solène, and that she is also blocking the people who wrote those comments. I haven't read what people are writing, but it happened to one of my friends whom I don't imagine to have written anything that attacked Isabella personally or was being hateful...

And some of the comments she's liked on the post are... not great. Seems like she's gone back and unliked at least one that was posted about on another site which included the sentence "The accuser has worked hard to sway public opinion before you've had a chance" and "this is America not the middle ages", but having liked it all, combined with the deleting and blocking (I saw one person say she blocked them for only posting the link to the article with Solène's statement) isn't a good look. I don't approve of anyone sending Isabella hate, and she's not responsible for her partner's actions, but still this post and her behaviour in the comments reflects poorly on her and has made me a bit less sympathetic to her than I was before she said anything.

 

[Minz]

She liked this. (not my original photo )

 

[Karoltyna]

TBH I don't know if she is not particularily smart or has far too much selfconfidence. Or if there is something that's going to come up and she is anticipating and trying to shift the narrative. One funny thing is that yesterday was the first time any of polish mainstream media, who won't write about FS unless Katia bombs her SP during the championships, wrote anything about it.

 

[el henry]

Dear heavens, when I heard the comment about the Middle Ages, it came off as much worse than when I saw the actual comment. Thank you @Minz (I don't read another site comments and I don't put stock in them. I do like videos. )

I will put myself out there: I don't think liking this comment is dismissive of survivors, is a PR nightmare, or any of the other more dramatic statements. Solène has been very vocal and upfront, and there is no reason she shouldn't be. Does it automatically and fervently support Solène's account? No, and there is no reason it should.

Solène's account may indeed be true, and I repeat what I said before if it is. But unless Isabella or the "Liked" comments say Solène is a lying so and so, they are not dismissive. Saying there is no resolution yet is not dismissive. It is the truth.

I am very process oriented since that is what I do. I have seen cases I thought were rock solid fall apart, and I have seen what I thought iffy cases strengthened and affirmed. (not necessarily on this issue) For me, the process must play out.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

I´m very disappointed by Isabellas statement, and the fact that she is deleting comments and blocking those users. Also it really sounds she stays with Ivan and supports him...

And I think the comment she liked is really unfair, my impression is that Solene didn´t out who the abuser was and didn´t plan it to become known to sway public opinion. People eventually connected the case because of details, and it seems there was a leak. In the end there were just a lot of speculation, and I guess she decided to confirm more details to get control over the information that circulated.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Dear heavens, when I heard the comment about the Middle Ages, it came off as much worse than when I saw the actual comment. Thank you @Minz (I don't read another site comments and I don't put stock in them. I do like videos. )

I will put myself out there: I don't think liking this comment is dismissive of survivors, is a PR nightmare, or any of the other more dramatic statements. Solène has been very vocal and upfront, and there is no reason she shouldn't be. Does it automatically and fervently support Solène's account? No, and there is no reason it should.

Solène's account may indeed be true, and I repeat what I said before if it is. But unless Isabella or the "Liked" comments say Solène is a lying so and so, they are not dismissive. Saying there is no resolution yet is not dismissive. It is the truth.

I am very process oriented since that is what I do. I have seen cases I thought were rock solid fall apart, and I have seen what I thought iffy cases strengthened and affirmed. (not necessarily on this issue) For me, the process must play out.

The dramatic statements about PR nightmares and the "correct" things to say, etc, are coming from a place of intense emotion, it's not objective.