Japan's success reason?

hanyuufan5

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*coughhackobesityratecoughhackclearsthroat*

The masks, maybe? :slink: Also, bowing instead of shaking hands, hugging, etc. and it's considered rude to blow your nose in public.

Let's pray it stays that way. :pray:
 

CoyoteChris

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*coughhackobesityratecoughhackclearsthroat*

The masks, maybe? :slink: Also, bowing instead of shaking hands, hugging, etc. and it's considered rude to blow your nose in public.

Let's pray it stays that way. :pray:

Yes, lets hope but it may just be due to culture the numbers will stay low.

(And it is rude to talk on the packed subways.)
I think culture here does play a part...but doesnt explain everything.
In Sweden, a small mono cultural society, the models predicted huge death numbers cause they decided to not shut the country down. 20,000 people dead predicted by Aug 1. But the models now say 5,000 and that number keeps falling every week. I think people behaving intellegently and listening to the govt might have something to do with it. In both countries. I dont think either country has drunken crowded street/house parties, for instance. Korea's only issue is the kids going to bars and night clubs, I am told. Could there be a connection between Sweden and Japan?
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article...FULnn2ccdmxzazxt6EudeHVwlk869UFIsnWcYfXTHKoYY
 

karne

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I mean, lack of comorbidities, decent health system, not being ruled by a mad tyrant all probably help.

But 20 deaths a day is still horrible.

In Australia we now have 3 states/territories out of 8 that have no active cases at all.
 

CoyoteChris

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I mean, lack of comorbidities, decent health system, not being ruled by a mad tyrant all probably help.

But 20 deaths a day is still horrible.

In Australia we now have 3 states/territories out of 8 that have no active cases at all.

Australia is doing very well. How hard is it to buy a real N95 mask down there?
 

karne

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Australia is doing very well. How hard is it to buy a real N95 mask down there?

Quite! Naturally, too, people are being encouraged not to hoard them and leave them for those who need it. But many people had purchased P2 masks to protect against smoke this summer, and bought N95 when the P2 supplies failed, so our supply chain was already messed up when the plague hit.

Personally I think this is a case of good luck rather than good planning, but we will see what winter brings.
 

CoyoteChris

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Quite! Naturally, too, people are being encouraged not to hoard them and leave them for those who need it. But many people had purchased P2 masks to protect against smoke this summer, and bought N95 when the P2 supplies failed, so our supply chain was already messed up when the plague hit.

Personally I think this is a case of good luck rather than good planning, but we will see what winter brings.

Thank you. Political infighting and arrogance for the last 15 years here has run our N95 mask supply down from 3.2 billion in the national reserve to 12 million going into this pandemic. Like you, I live in a land of wildfire and have masks. Sadly, even after Mt St Helens blew, countless wild fires, the 2003 pandemic, the 2009 pandemic, etc, not one politician...not one school system, encouraged people to have a supply of masks at home. Only one man had a viable long term plan to make US masks and use them up and replace them on a regular basis...for 15 years, no one listened.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/article242743031.html

I dont think the Aussie, Japanese and Swede success stories are accidents....
 

karne

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I dont think the Aussie, Japanese and Swede success stories are accidents....

I think ours mostly is. We went late, had a leader who downplayed and initially half-efforted the response. It was only after severe backlash that we went hard. We didn't start locking down until March 13. That could so easily have been way too late for us.
 

Jeanie19

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I think ours mostly is. We went late, had a leader who downplayed and initially half-efforted the response. It was only after severe backlash that we went hard. We didn't start locking down until March 13. That could so easily have been way too late for us.

That's not too late. Most states in the U.S. Were much later, mine was March 24th.

And in the U.S. masks are just now required and some people are still refusing to wear them. Lastly, why do we have to tell people to wash their hands? Didn't their mothers teach them that? Mine did when I was 2 and being potty trained.
 

NanaPat

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I think ours mostly is. We went late, had a leader who downplayed and initially half-efforted the response. It was only after severe backlash that we went hard. We didn't start locking down until March 13. That could so easily have been way too late for us.

That's not too late. Most states in the U.S. Were much later, mine was March 24th.

And in the U.S. masks are just now required and some people are still refusing to wear them. Lastly, why do we have to tell people to wash their hands? Didn't their mothers teach them that? Mine did when I was 2 and being potty trained.

Our library and swimming pool were open Mar 16, closed on the 17th. That's in British Columbia, Canada. Thos local closings of municipal facilities probably preceded them being ordered to shut by the province.
 

Interspectator

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There is a murkiness in the Japan stats because of the extremely low testing rates and the blatant discouragement to go to the hospital even if you are symptomatic. It's almost impossible to get a test for covid 19.
People I know with all the symptoms of covid could not book an appointment to see a doctor. -They were flatly turned down, and told to stay home and self monitor.

However, the excess death rates for the last 3 months do paint a hopeful picture, it seems that all-cause death is still within the average.

Time will tell if the government and public response was enough.
 

Harriet

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I dont think the Aussie, Japanese and Swede success stories are accidents....

I'm not sure Sweden counts as a success story. The one thing they were aiming to do was keep it out of their aged care sector and it still got in there fast and spread like wildfire. And they've still taken quite a lot of the economic hit they were trying to avoid.

I can't say our success has been planned but I don't think it's entirely accidental either. Our federal government was dragging its heels as it always does, but the states - both Labor and Liberal* - took the lead and made their own decisions, and forced the federal government to get its act together. They could do it because they have responsibility for the hospitals and could make state public health their priority over the federal economy - ie the had leverage in a way they don't always. They also have control over schools and could afford to make choices that suited their individual situations best even while the Prime Minister tried desperately to prevent school closures. And with our major population centres being a long way apart, isolating state from state wasn't that hard (it had also been done before, in the Spanish Flu pandemic, so there was a model). The system worked in our favour for once in a way that doesn't always happen, but in a way it was almost set up to enable it to happen if we needed it.

*Note for those unfamiliar with Australian political terminology: Labor is the left-wing party and the Libs are the conservatives. They're the two major parties in our political landscape but not the only ones, nor the only ones with any impact.
 

karne

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That's not too late. Most states in the U.S. Were much later, mine was March 24th.

Uh...yeah. That's the point. The US is beyond screwed. The fact that ours went only a week before states in the US is not a good comparison.
 

denise3lz

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If you look at the numbers for Cov19 in Japan, the dont make sense. They drift along at only 20 deaths a day for a country of 126 million...a country with a large segment of population over 65. A country with a high population density in many big cities.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/-covid-19-did-not-change-much-in-japan-s-daily-life-/1819015

Government appointed expert Dr Shigeru Omi said at May 14 press conference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCjIGiowPyM&t=46m

今のところBCGが有効であるというエビデンスはありません。
At this moment, there are no evidence that BCG vaccine works to cope COVID-19.

1.日本の医療制度が重症者を見つけ出し、適切に処理した
Japan's medical system detected most of serious symptoms and treated adequately.

2.特に初期のクラスター対策が有効だった
Especially in early stage, "cluster counter measures" worked well.

3.国民の健康意識が高い
Japanese citizens health awareness is high.
 
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CoyoteChris

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That's not too late. Most states in the U.S. Were much later, mine was March 24th.

And in the U.S. masks are just now required and some people are still refusing to wear them. Lastly, why do we have to tell people to wash their hands? Didn't their mothers teach them that? Mine did when I was 2 and being potty trained.

You would be shocked if you went into a mens room in say Nov 2019 and see how many guys dont wash their hands even after number 2.
 

CoyoteChris

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Government appointed expert Dr Shigeru Omi said at May 14 press conference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCjIGiowPyM&t=46m

今のところBCGが有効であるというエビデンスはありません。
At this moment, there are no evidence that BCG vaccine works to cope COVID-19.

1.日本の医療制度が重症者を見つけ出し、適切に処理した
Japan's medical sysytem detected most of serious symptoms and treated adequately.

2.特に初期のクラスター対策が有効だった
Especially in early stage, "cluster counter measures" worked well.

3.国民の健康意識が高い
Japanese citizens health awareness is high.

Thank you. I would also suggest Japanese people have a sense of community and a respect for authority, and are a cleaner people than the US citizens.
 

CoyoteChris

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There is a murkiness in the Japan stats because of the extremely low testing rates and the blatant discouragement to go to the hospital even if you are symptomatic. It's almost impossible to get a test for covid 19.
People I know with all the symptoms of covid could not book an appointment to see a doctor. -They were flatly turned down, and told to stay home and self monitor.

However, the excess death rates for the last 3 months do paint a hopeful picture, it seems that all-cause death is still within the average.

Time will tell if the government and public response was enough.

Here in the state of WA also. I had a bunch of covid symptoms but my doc could not get me a test unless I had a fever or a cough. You still cant get tested in Washington state. Politicians of both sides are using the pandemic and our lives for their own uses.
 

CoyoteChris

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I'm not sure Sweden counts as a success story. The one thing they were aiming to do was keep it out of their aged care sector and it still got in there fast and spread like wildfire. And they've still taken quite a lot of the economic hit they were trying to avoid.

I can't say our success has been planned but I don't think it's entirely accidental either. Our federal government was dragging its heels as it always does, but the states - both Labor and Liberal* - took the lead and made their own decisions, and forced the federal government to get its act together. They could do it because they have responsibility for the hospitals and could make state public health their priority over the federal economy - ie the had leverage in a way they don't always. They also have control over schools and could afford to make choices that suited their individual situations best even while the Prime Minister tried desperately to prevent school closures. And with our major population centres being a long way apart, isolating state from state wasn't that hard (it had also been done before, in the Spanish Flu pandemic, so there was a model). The system worked in our favour for once in a way that doesn't always happen, but in a way it was almost set up to enable it to happen if we needed it.

*Note for those unfamiliar with Australian political terminology: Labor is the left-wing party and the Libs are the conservatives. They're the two major parties in our political landscape but not the only ones, nor the only ones with any impact.

Thanks for your input, Harriet. So far, Sweden is a success in that the original projections said 20,000 dead. I think they now say (so far) there will be 5700. What is unknown is, "With any country, if you close it down, what are the unintended consequences?" In the US, cancer rates are falling, probably because people are too scared to go seek medical help...I am not defending Sweden....the last card has yet to be played there and everywhere.

I dont know much about Australia...our media barely admits it exisists.....but I have to wonder if they, like the Japanese, have more of a sense of community the what the US has now.
I am curious about what masks are available there for the consumer. And where they come from. Or, Indeed, what is the mask situation in any of our forum members' countries. Here you can buy a rag mask and maybe a surgical mask, which are useful to supply some form of protection for others and a very limited amount of protection for the user. The bottom of the heap for medical usage to protect the wearer is called the N95 mask, which is all but unobtainable for common people. A mask you CAN find with a bit of looking is the Chinese standard, the KN95, which is better than wearing a rag mask but not as good as the N95 mask. I have no Idea why our government would not order the Prestige mask company, which has 4 N95 mask lines mothballed, to hire 100 people and get those lines rolling. I hope other countries have govts that try and help their people.
 

karne

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I dont know much about Australia...our media barely admits it exisists.....but I have to wonder if they, like the Japanese, have more of a sense of community the what the US has now.

I'd be interested to see a study about our response in the context of the plague's beginning overlapping with the end of the worst fire season in history, and how that affected our response. Was it easier because Australians were naturally more alert, anxiousness heightened after a summer of disaster? Or was it harder because Australians were so tired and heartbroken? Was it easier because many Australians had already bought masks to protect from the smoke? Or was it harder because the mask supply chain was messed up because of the smoke? Were we saved by the tourism drop because of the bushfires? Or is it simply that we are an island and you can't get in if we close the borders (as long as any idiots don't let cruise ships dock)?

I'm surprised more folks aren't interested in us, given that, as far as I know, we are the only country to have come into this directly on the back of a major, national natural disaster. Two, actually, if you also count February's flooding as a natural disaster, which it was.
 
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