Jason Brown

[TMC]

Sorry, I am not sure but If I recall correctly, that is not a Biellmann but more like a catch-foot spiral position. He is still in the camel position IMO.

I would actually call that spin a half-Biellman? At least that's what I've been taught. But what do I know, we call loops Rittbergers and all

 

[Meoima]

I would actually call that spin a half-Biellman? At least that's what I've been taught. But what do I know, we call loops Rittbergers and all

It depends on the way skater catches their foot. Half-Biellman is still more upright IMO: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biellmann_spin#/image/File:Jamal_Othman_Spin_-_2006_Skate_Canada.jpg
I think he raised his leg from the camel position, so it's more like catch-foot camel spin.

 

[TMC]

It depends on the way skater catches their foot. Half-Biellman is still more upright IMO: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biellmann_spin#/image/File:Jamal_Othman_Spin_-_2006_Skate_Canada.jpg
I think he raised his leg from the camel position, so it's more like catch-foot camel spin.

Funny - if you do an image search you get that exact same picture under both "catch-foot camel spin" and "half-Biellman". Looks like there's universal confusion about this. Well, they look pretty much the same to me but yes I can understand your reasoning. Because his free hand is in the position that it is in, the leg is necessarily "less upright" than in a Biellman. I'm starting to think that a half-Biellman is just another term for a catch-foot camel?

 

[Meoima]

Funny - if you do an image search you get that exact same picture under both "catch-foot camel spin" and "half-Biellman". Looks like there's universal confusion about this. Well, they look pretty much the same to me but yes I can understand your reasoning. Because his free hand is in the position that it is in, the leg is necessarily "less upright" than in a Biellman. I'm starting to think that a half-Biellman is just another term for a catch-foot camel?

Well, according to wiki:

The half-Biellmann (also called a catch-foot camel spin) is a camel spin during which the skater grasps the free blade with either hand and raises the free leg upwards while otherwise maintaining the camel position. Whether a spin is counted as an upright spin variation or a camel spin variation depends on the entrance into the spin and the position of the torso.

Since he catched the foot from a camel position, I think it's not "upright" enough to be called a Biellmann. Personally I think it's a camel spin variation than a Biellmann variation.

 

[TMC]

Well, according to wiki:

Since he catched the foot from a camel position, I think it's not "upright" enough to be called a Biellmann. Personally I think it's a camel spin variation than a Biellmann variation.

A-ha - it says what I suspected right there: The half-Bielmann (also called a catch-foot camel spin)

 

[Meoima]

A-ha - it says what I suspected right there: The half-Bielmann (also called a catch-foot camel spin)

But this is why I hesitate to call it a half-Biellmann: Whether a spin is counted as an upright spin variation or a camel spin variation depends on the entrance into the spin and the position of the torso.

If you see the photos of some half-Biellmann by Mao Asada or other male skaters, you will the the torsos are still bended more than in Jason's case.

Jason's torsor was not as upright as theirs IMO, he looked exactly like Katmari in the previous page has described: a bow. and it's more effective that way (very fit to the theme of the Lp).

Biellmann spin doesn't look like a bow.

 

[Meoima]

Anyways, here's a blog about spins and variations (including Biellmann, half-Biellmann and Camel), I think I might be right, Jason's spin as Katmari mentioned was catch-foot camel spin: http://soyouwanttowatchfigureskating.tumblr.com/post/82740371954/intro-spins-singles

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

May I be so bold as to suggest we call this spin an Upright Doughnut Dipper? It looks like a doughnut spin being torn apart and ready to be dipped in some coffee.

 

[TMC]

May I be so bold as to suggest we call this spin an Upright Doughnut Dipper? It looks like a doughnut spin being torn apart and ready to be dipped in some coffee.

I'd be happy with that

Aaand now I'm hungry

 

[Sandpiper]

So the difference between half-Biellmann and catch-foot camel is the position of the torso? I always thought it had more to do with the position of the blade, since the Biellmann is defined as getting the blade above your head (or at least that's the definition I heard).

 

[Meoima]

I'd be happy with that
Aaand now I'm hungry

I've had doughnuts, though.

 

[Meoima]

So the difference between half-Biellmann and catch-foot camel is the position of the torso? I always thought it had more to do with the position of the blade, since the Biellmann is defined as getting the blade above your head (or at least that's the definition I heard).

Yes, Biellmann is getting the boot over your head. But your torso has to be upright. Even in half-Biellmann, the torso is still upright (please google Mao Asada half-biellmann).
Even though sometimes a half-biellmann and a catch-foot camel spin might look quite alike. They say it's the position of the torso and the way skater enter that spin position define the difference.

 

[StitchMonkey]

May I be so bold as to suggest we call this spin an Upright Doughnut Dipper? It looks like a doughnut spin being torn apart and ready to be dipped in some coffee.

I just love this image/description.


I always thought with the Biellmann the foot higher than the head was the key.

 

[TMC]

So the difference between half-Biellmann and catch-foot camel is the position of the torso? I always thought it had more to do with the position of the blade, since the Biellmann is defined as getting the blade above your head (or at least that's the definition I heard).

Well, I've not seen the difference actually defined anywhere online at least. Even in Meoima's (excellent) link "Intro to Figure Skating" the writer concedes that "A half-Biellmann is a murkily-defined spin that is somewhere between a full Biellmann and a catchfoot camel."

 

[Meoima]

Well, I've not seen the difference actually defined anywhere online at least. Even in Meoima's (excellent) link "Intro to Figure Skating" the writer concedes that "A half-Biellmann is a murkily-defined spin that is somewhere between a full Biellmann and a catchfoot camel."

Yes, but I mean the way he catches his foot from the camel position (torso parallel to the ice surface) makes it more like a variation of camel spin than a variation of an upright spin like Mao's half-Biellmann (which might be more hurtful to the body, though).
But anyways, it doesn't matter. As long as his spin position looks beautiful and fit to the theme. I love this LP much more than his last year's.

 

[TMC]

Yes, but I mean the way he catches his foot from the camel position (torso parallel to the ice surface) makes it more like a variation of camel spin than a variation of an upright spin like Mao's half-Biellmann (which might be more hurtful to the body, though).
But anyways, it doesn't matter. As long as his spin position looks beautiful and fit to the theme. I love this LP much more than his last year's.

And doesn't it ever!

I couldn't sleep tonight so I watched a USFS webinar on this season's IJS rule changes (and yes, I still cannot sleep) and guess who is the poster-boy for perfect spins?

 

[StitchMonkey]

And doesn't it ever!

I couldn't sleep tonight so I watched a USFS webinar on this season's IJS rule changes (and yes, I still cannot sleep) and guess who is the poster-boy for perfect spins?

Do you have a link? . . . yeah that actually sounds interesting to me as well.

 

[TMC]

Do you have a link? . . . yeah that actually sounds interesting to me as well.

Sure! It's available on the regular USFS Youtube account: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTnx69VCQnc&list=UU_rE3bivyW-5h3O_bynaGxA

 

[StitchMonkey]

Sure! It's available on the regular USFS Youtube account: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTnx69VCQnc&list=UU_rE3bivyW-5h3O_bynaGxA

Thank you!

off to be a nerd!

 

[ice coverage]

Jason's brief video message of support is newly posted today on Skate for Hope's Facebook page, presumably to mark the first day of Breast Cancer Awareness Month.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152731716842692 (eight seconds)​

Sure! It's available on the regular USFS Youtube account: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTnx69VCQnc&list=UU_rE3bivyW-5h3O_bynaGxA

Thx for the webinar link, TMC.