Javier Fernandez

[honghe]

Javi spoke like a world champion and acted like a world champion the past season, but many did not take him serious and he was the most under-the-radar reigning world champion heading into the 2016 worlds.

I think this past season few expected Javi to defend his World title even when he said he wanted to defend it. Being under-the-radar isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it's good to see that he stayed focused and motivated despite the fact that many didn't take him seriously since the beginning of the season.
I agree that next season the field will be good.

Like you I tend to consider Javi a late season skater, at least in recent seasons, so I, too, have not really expected him to do extremely well at GPF. But when I compare his two GPFs in his home country, I have enough reasons to feel happy for him. I think even just by looking at these two GPFs one can tell that he really had grown up a lot within one year. To see how well he carried himself and how unfazed he had became is truly heartening.

BTW, honghe, how do you think Javi's Malagueña without goatee

I got my wish. He looks much younger without the goatee.

I don't think Javi should really worry about not qualifying for the GPF Few skaters have similar or harder programs and even fewer have that AND PCS that can match his. At worst he might finish with two silvers, but I think (hope) he'll win both of his events again this year :yes:

I also hope he can win both his GP events again this coming season!
I agree that he should be able to qualify for the GPF without too much trouble as long as he does not choke too badly at his two GP events. I think he has become stronger mentally, so he should be OK. I just don't want to take things for granted, especially since he did fail to make it to the GPF in 2013 and in 2014 how his FS went at Skate Canada gave people some worries.

 

[evergreen]

I don't think Javi should really worry about not qualifying for the GPF Few skaters have similar or harder programs and even fewer have that AND PCS that can match his. At worst he might finish with two silvers, but I think (hope) he'll win both of his events again this year :yes::

It is fair to say that Yuzu and Javi are in the league of their own. I would put my money on Patrick Chan for the next skater joining 300 club. Uno's performance at 2016 WTT was close to 300, but I have to say the difficulty of his programs are no where near to the ones of Yuzu, Javi and Patrick, a lot of two foot gilding and too much cross overs. More importantly, his team need to manage his condition carefully so as he can peak for the ISU championships, he was kind of burning out leading to 4CC and the worlds the past season. (Nonetheless, it appears that Japanese skaters usually peek in the first half of season ) Among the new quad kings nominated by icenetwork, he is the one has the complete package.

Yeah, I've only been able to come across Shoma's performance, but nothing else. Hopefully someone will upload it soon :yes:

I reckon that Javi is not going to perform Polovtsian Dances for the FaOI shows in Kobe & Nagano, since Norimasa Fujisawa won't be there.

 

[xibsuarz]

More importantly, his team need to manage his condition carefully so as he can peak for the ISU championships, he was kind of burning out leading to 4CC and the worlds the past season. (Nonetheless, it appears that Japanese skaters usually peek in the first half of season )

I think it might be due to them focusing on Nationals. Japan has one of deepest men's field, so the have to really bring it during Nationals and the GPs (since JSF does take GP results into account, too) if they want a chance to go to Worlds. Even more so this year since they only had two spots (and considering the first basically had Yuzu's name, only one for the rest of the field).
The comparison between how the depth of the field in a skater's country can change their priorities is really interesting. For example, I doubt Javi worries to much about his own Nationals and instead uses it as a chance to try new elements without actually risking anything :yes: Denis could be another example, even Patrick. While I don't think the American or Japanese men could afford to do that (not sure about Russia...)

 

[eppen]

Finally able to catch up on all the new FaOI stuff... I will be going to Marseille and will battle for seats every day of the competition, sigh. Hope certainly to see Javi there!! It'll be interesting to see how things turn out - I was quite disappointed at Shoma's new FS, but they will hopefully be able to develop it further, Yuzu's injury situation is still very unclear, Ten jumps looked quite uncertain in All That Skate, will Chan have time/motivation to train with the new skating school scheme?, will Jin be able to develop the rest of his skating to match his jumps? Etc.

A Japanese friend has seen almost every FaOI show so far (she is a huge Yuzu fan, but decided to go despite him not skating) and said: "Javi was wonderful as you might already know! He was in the center at the opening on the first and second day. Closing program had Stephen in the center for three days."
He also did a center at the opening on the third day. [...] Javi was in good mood. He looked very relaxed. I saw him doing soccer with some other male skaters before the show! His jumps were too good and he looked rather slim."

She was also in Sapporo and wrote just this: "In Sapporo, he was also good enough to do all his show performances. On the last day, though, maybe he was too tired, and missed a little bit of his jumps, like quad to triple and loss of balance. Just a trifle."

I kind of liked the Dattanjin No Odori/Polovtsian Dances performance - fairly good choreo (Jeff Buttle, I guess?).

e

 

[evergreen]

I think this past season few expected Javi to defend his World title even when he said he wanted to defend it. Being under-the-radar isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it's good to see that he stayed focused and motivated despite the fact that many didn't take him seriously since the beginning of the season. .

I remembered all the talk about Chan-Hanyu rivalry at the beginning of the past season :sarcasm: and I agree that being underestimated just might be Javi's greatest asset. Apparently, he has much more potential to improve, which Brian knows very well and therefore has kept on pushing him to do one more practice session daily. His laziness in early years may have saved his body to the best time of his competitive career

Like you I tend to consider Javi a late season skater, at least in recent seasons, so I, too, have not really expected him to do extremely well at GPF. But when I compare his two GPFs in his home country, I have enough reasons to feel happy for him. I think even just by looking at these two GPFs one can tell that he really had grown up a lot within one year. To see how well he carried himself and how unfazed he had became is truly heartening..

I ordered all-event tickets for 2013 GPF very early and expected to see him there so as I can save my trip to the Euros, but he did not make it. :scowl: Thankfully, I enjoyed ice dance & pairs' competition of 2013 GPF very much.

I won't worry about his qualification for GPF in the new season, but I really want him to skate two clean programs in one competition. If he only manages to do it once, may the best be saved to the last.

I got my wish. He looks much younger without the goatee.

It took me a while to get used to his show performance of this program without goatee

 

[evergreen]

I think it might be due to them focusing on Nationals. Japan has one of deepest men's field, so the have to really bring it during Nationals and the GPs (since JSF does take GP results into account, too) if they want a chance to go to Worlds. Even more so this year since they only had two spots (and considering the first basically had Yuzu's name, only one for the rest of the field).

Thank you, I get that and I still vividly remembered poor Oda in 2005 Japan Nationals, how misfortunate he was (only one spot for the 2006 Olympics and the worlds)

In the season 2012-13, four Japanese male skaters qualified for the GPF, somehow these brilliant young men turned the GPF into a warm-up competition of Japan Nationals.

The comparison between how the depth of the field in a skater's country can change their priorities is really interesting. For example, I doubt Javi worries to much about his own Nationals and instead uses it as a chance to try new elements without actually risking anything :yes: Denis could be another example, even Patrick. While I don't think the American or Japanese men could afford to do that (not sure about Russia...)

I read somewhere that Javi has an agreement with Spanish Federation that barring from injuries, he must compete in Spanish Nationals, this was why he did not skip 2013 Nationals?

 

[evergreen]

Finally able to catch up on all the new FaOI stuff... I will be going to Marseille and will battle for seats every day of the competition, sigh.

I haven't experienced a battle for seats ever since the premiere of Star Wars: Episode IV and I don't get why the event host won't assign the seats when they sell the tickets :disapp:

Hope certainly to see Javi there!! It'll be interesting to see how things turn out -

He will be there, so do his parents and his relatives and his die hard fans coming from Spain and else where

I was quite disappointed at Shoma's new FS, but they will hopefully be able to develop it further

I have yet watched it and I did not like the music selection and choreography of his free skate of last season, though I found his SP was interesting. But please no more gray & green for his costume, he is such a cute pie and deserves to be dressed better grey & green are definitely not friendly color on ice :noshake:

Yuzu's injury situation is still very unclear

Finger crossed for his speedy recovery. I had slightly injured an alignment of my left foot several years ago and it took me about 3 months to heal. I can still feel some pain when in rainy winter days. I cannot imagine Yuzu skating throughout almost entire season with this kind of injury.

Ten jumps looked quite uncertain in All That Skate

He reiterated in various occasions that he aims for Pyeongchang and he may have some home advantage by then, being a Korean descendant and a skater of ATS. However, I do think if he wants to be one of OGM contenders of 18' Olympics, he needs to bring his A game in the pre-Olympic season, otherwise his PCS status would be suffered substantially.

will Chan have time/motivation to train with the new skating school scheme?

It depends on whether he can land 4 S in competitions consistently, how his team manage his training routine for 5 quads & 3 Axels programs, how his body responds to the more intensive training on daily basis. Patrick is only four months older than Javi and he is physically strong. With his outstanding basic skills, I won't rule him out on learning a new quad jump, plus he had landed 4 S in practice before.

will Jin be able to develop the rest of his skating to match his jumps? Etc.

Jump-wise, Jin is super talented. He is musical and has strong desire to perform. The other skating skills can be trained, however he is not going to get them overnight.

A Japanese friend has seen almost every FaOI show so far (she is a huge Yuzu fan, but decided to go despite him not skating) and said: "Javi was wonderful as you might already know! He was in the center at the opening on the first and second day. Closing program had Stephen in the center for three days."
He also did a center at the opening on the third day. [...] Javi was in good mood. He looked very relaxed. I saw him doing soccer with some other male skaters before the show! His jumps were too good and he looked rather slim."

She was also in Sapporo and wrote just this: "In Sapporo, he was also good enough to do all his show performances. On the last day, though, maybe he was too tired, and missed a little bit of his jumps, like quad to triple and loss of balance. Just a trifle."

Many thanks for citing the live report. May Javi take a good rest during the 10-day break, having a great time with Miki & little Himawari :luv17:

 

[LRK]

Interesting discussion! I'd just like to say that I too noticed the way Javi was treated almost like a fluke World champion, and almost an afterthought in discussions about the (then) coming season. I wonder how this season will differ in that regard? Anyway, I don't get the impression that Javi worries too much about what is said about him - I think he will be fine, and will hopefully continue to improve. I'm looking forward to seeing his new programs next season.

 

[honghe]

I think it might be due to them focusing on Nationals. Japan has one of deepest men's field, so the have to really bring it during Nationals and the GPs (since JSF does take GP results into account, too) if they want a chance to go to Worlds. Even more so this year since they only had two spots (and considering the first basically had Yuzu's name, only one for the rest of the field).
The comparison between how the depth of the field in a skater's country can change their priorities is really interesting. For example, I doubt Javi worries to much about his own Nationals and instead uses it as a chance to try new elements without actually risking anything :yes: Denis could be another example, even Patrick. While I don't think the American or Japanese men could afford to do that (not sure about Russia...)

Yes, American and Japanese men have more pressure at nationals than a lot of other skaters. (And next season it will be the American men who have to fight for the 2 Worlds spots.)
I think Japan will have 3 spots for Worlds 2017? And since Shoma really established himself this past season maybe there will be a little less pressure to fight for a spot on the Worlds team? But then I somehow get the impression that he is a little bit like Yuzu in the sense that they probably always push themselves harder than any other people or external situations push them.

I kind of liked the Dattanjin No Odori/Polovtsian Dances performance - fairly good choreo (Jeff Buttle, I guess?).

e

Thanks for sharing your friend's report eppen! I hope Javi can stay healthy and have some good rest!
I think I read somewhere that Jeff choreographed the show?

I won't worry about his qualification for GPF in the new season, but I really want him to skate two clean programs in one competition. If he only manages to do it once, may the best be saved to the last.

If I like his programs, I'd want him to at least do one clean, well performed performance of each program at some point during the season so that I can have the best possible memory of each of his programs.

Speaking of his programs, I think Guys and Dolls is perhaps the best vehicle Javi has had so far, but it really is one that has to be skated very well to work. I myself was among those who weren't entirely sure about this program at first, but it really, really won me over at Worlds. Of course all programs won't reach their full potentials unless skated cleanly, but this one in particular has to be at least near perfect to work. Chaplin would still be cute with a couple of mistakes, so would The Barber of Seville. But Guys and Dolls would always lack something if there is any obvious mistakes. It would be like Sky singing "Luck be a Lady" and then not winning the bet... I remember early in the season when Javi made mistakes there were people joking about how "Luck is a fickle *****" today.
But then at Worlds Javi gave a wonderful performance that really showed what a great program it is. And the circumstances--skating to Sinatra in the U.S., coming from 12 points behind to defend a World title as "Luck be a Lady" played, etc.--even gave Guys and Dolls a somewhat epic feel (yep I am using this word ) I just feel incredibly lucky that I get to have this performance of this program to keep in my memory.

 

[honghe]

Interesting discussion! I'd just like to say that I too noticed the way Javi was treated almost like a fluke World champion, and almost an afterthought in discussions about the (then) coming season. I wonder how this season will differ in that regard? Anyway, I don't get the impression that Javi worries too much about what is said about him - I think he will be fine, and will hopefully continue to improve. I'm looking forward to seeing his new programs next season.

Before the 2014-2015 season some were saying that Javi would not be able to compete with Yuzu and Denis; before the 2015-2016 season people were saying he would not be able to compete with Yuzu and Patrick... I think Javi handles being the underdog quite well.
It also shows how difficult it is to predict skating, and how quickly people would dismiss someone. Some are quick to dismiss Patrick now, despite him being his generation's one to beat not that long ago. But Patrick is someone whom I think should never be counted out.

 

[evergreen]

Before the 2014-2015 season some were saying that Javi would not be able to compete with Yuzu and Denis; before the 2015-2016 season people were saying he would not be able to compete with Yuzu and Patrick... I think Javi handles being the underdog quite well.
It also shows how difficult it is to predict skating, and how quickly people would dismiss someone. Some are quick to dismiss Patrick now, despite him being his generation's one to beat not that long ago. But Patrick is someone whom I think should never be counted out.

Neither do I and I won't count Denis Ten out as the game spoiler, despite his disappointing 2015-16 season.

If Yuzu comes to the next season in good shape, he will be still considered as the front-runner.

 

[LRK]

Before the 2014-2015 season some were saying that Javi would not be able to compete with Yuzu and Denis; before the 2015-2016 season people were saying he would not be able to compete with Yuzu and Patrick... I think Javi handles being the underdog quite well.
It also shows how difficult it is to predict skating, and how quickly people would dismiss someone. Some are quick to dismiss Patrick now, despite him being his generation's one to beat not that long ago. But Patrick is someone whom I think should never be counted out.

'Tis always the way, though - there are always people who judge a skater by their last competition. See Patrick after 4CC versus Patrick after Worlds', for example. If he has one good outing, people will be crowning him World Champion again - and same for other skaters. I think it's a weird thing to do - especially for men. So often I've absolutely been astounded looking at the standings of one & the same competition after the SP and after the FP - especially if I've missed seeing the FP live. "WTH happened here?!" is so often my reaction, with the gents being up and down the standings like yo-yos. But some people still, apparently, never learn...

 

[xibsuarz]

The men's field is just way too wild to make accurate predictions throughout all the season. But I think it might be best for Javi to not have the pressure of people expecting him to win all the time. As his sister said, he skates better when he is chasing rather that when he is being chased. But I doubt he will get away with it now after winning two World titles and being one of the only two skaters who broke de 100-200-300 barriers, I highly doubt people won't consider him one of the front runners for next season.
I just hope someone doesn't come up with another X vs. Y threat because it turned out ugly at certain times last season and the field is so unpredictable it might be another skater who wins the medals.

 

[Jaana]

Yes, I was not happy about the Hanyu vs. Chan thread, but thought later it does not matter, LOL, as it is good to be an underdog at least sometimes. In 2015-16 season Javi´s timing was awesome, he skated bis best at Worlds and gave us that fantastic performance. I hope that next season he will peak at Worlds, too. It is difficult for a skater to skate well enough at GP, GPF and Europeans to succeed, but have the absolutely best performance at Worlds (or at the Olympics.

A really nice and detailed review from the CSOI Vancouver show:

http://absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=reports&id=2016csoi

 

[cathlen]

Frankly, I'm not sure if I want Javi to win another World title next season. Sure it would be great and I'd be super happy for him, but thinking more long-term, can you imagine what pressure he would have going into Olympic season as a 3-time World Champion? We all know how it ended up for Patrick. I know they are different people, but still. I'd rather he wasn't a clear favourite for OGM, just being considered one of contenders is good enough. Plus, he might have more motivation. I do wish him to win GPF title either this or next year, though. And of course, I cannot imagine anyone else to win Europeans again

 

[solani]

Frankly, I'm not sure if I want Javi to win another World title next season. Sure it would be great and I'd be sup[er happy for him, but thinking more long-term, can you imagine what pressure he would have going into Olympic season as a 3-time World Champion? We all know how it ended up for Patrick. I know they are different people, but still. I'd rather he wasn't a clear favourite for OGM, just being considered one of contenders is good enough. Plus, he might have more motivation. I do wish him to win GPF title either this or next year, though. And of course, I cannot imagine anyone else to win Europeans again

I don't think that it would matter, really. As long as the potential score of another skater is higher he won't be the clear favourite anyway.
But his programs are going to be very important. His Guys & Dolls FS was a huge step forward. Kolyada is the only one who could be a threat at Europeans imho, I've kind of given up on Kovtun. And being European champion is always a nice backdrop. It's the oldest major title after all.

 

[evergreen]

I don't think that it would matter, really. As long as the potential score of another skater is higher he won't be the clear favourite anyway.
But his programs are going to be very important. His Guys & Dolls FS was a huge step forward. Kolyada is the only one who could be a threat at Europeans imho, I've kind of given up on Kovtun. And being European champion is always a nice backdrop. It's the oldest major title after all.

I agree. Plus, I don't think that an elite skater like Javi will try not to win a world title simply to reduce the pressure and expectation set on him heading into the Olympics. Yagudin did not win 2001 worlds' title, but the pressure on him to win 2002 OGM was enormous. Lysacek won 2009 worlds but he did not think he could win OGM when he entered into the game in Vancouver. It all depends on how the skater handles/manages his/her nerve to prepare for the competition. In Javi's case, winning next worlds title or not, barring from major injury, he will be one of contenders for 2018 OGM. So long as Yuzu still holds SP, LP & Combination total score WRs and is in good shape, he won't be considered as the clear favorite.

As to his programs for the next two seasons, Javi said in a recent IFS interview that he has no shortage of ideas for future programs headings into Pyeongchong Game, but he prefers to a grogram that he can tell a story/play a character; he would love to skate to a piece of song from "Grease" or music of Elvis Presley.

No matter what music he/his team selects for his future programs, please no more mistakes like Peter Gunn program

 

[Jaana]

No matter what music he/his team selects for his future programs, please no more mistakes like Peter Gunn program

I agree that his programs for the 2013-2014 were not impressive, especially if compared to "Chaplin" from previous season. They could have just made some changes in "Chaplin" choreography and kept it rather than that new Olympic freeskate. I wonder who made that choice? In my opinion experienced choreographers like David Wilson at least in most cases will make much better music choices than e.g. a skater, any skater, LOL.

 

[cathlen]

Ok, I never said he should try not to win. Of course he should do everything in order o win! But the final placements depends also on other skaters performances, not only Javi's. I'm not an angel, but I would never step so low, as to wish he underperformed. Evan's example would be good, if he won more than one title. We know that winning one title doesn't make you a star. So Evan, just like Javi after last season win, wasn't considered as the favourite for OGM. But Patrick, who is 3-time WC was. And so will be Javi, if he mangaed to win 3rd title. And that's what I was talking about. Being contender isn't excatly the same as 'favourite'. There are always more contenders than favourites. And of course, even if Javi didn't win this year, he would still be one of contenders as he should. I just think that sometimes it's better if people have less expectations of you.
(Also, what you mentioned before: that most fans considered Patrick & Yuzuru as the toughest competition this season, and Javi's title as a fluck, which I thought was stupid)

I would love to see an Elvis program! It worked for Julia Lipnitskaia very well, when she was on. I'm sure it would work for Javi too :yes:

 

[evergreen]

Ok, I never said he should try not to win. Of course he should do everything in order o win! But the final placements depends also on other skaters performances, not only Javi's. I'm not an angel, but I would never step so low, as to wish he underperformed. Evan's example would be good, if he won more than one title. We know that winning one title doesn't make you a star. So Evan, just like Javi after last season win, wasn't considered as the favourite for OGM. But Patrick, who is 3-time WC was. And so will be Javi, if he mangaed to win 3rd title. And that's what I was talking about. Being contender isn't excatly the same as 'favourite'. There are always more contenders than favourites. And of course, even if Javi didn't win this year, he would still be one of contenders as he should. I just think that sometimes it's better if people have less expectations of you.

cathlen, I am sorry if I got you wrong and it is true that the underdog mentality can serve as an asset or advantage to one's grind. I do understand that a skater must have enormous pressure coming into an Olympics with 3 world titles in a row, e.g. both Kurt Browning and Patrick Chan faltered in their games. On the other hand, for some skaters, winning a world title can give them extra confidence boost, such as Javi, which may be helpful to unleash the competitiveness inside of him. As I previously mentioned, Javi is one of the most unassuming champions I have ever seen. After winning his first world title, he still keeps the underdog mentality which pushes him to work harder to be the best and beat his competition despite the odds. He knows very well that making it to the top does not solidify his spot there. The field of the current men's discipline is so deep and the technical stuff they put into their programs are prone to mistakes. Javi respects his competitors, but he also believes that if he can do his best, he can beat them all. Here is the abstract of his IFS interview:-

Is Yuzu the leader? May be in one competition, he is the leader. Is that going to be forever? Nobody knows. I don't know if I am going to be World champion again, but I'm going to try. Is he going to be World champion again? I know he is going to try. Nobody knows who the leader will be because you never know what is going to happen..... Sometimes we all make mistakes in the biggest competitions.

This interview was conducted right after he won his 4th European title. When came to the worlds and Yuzu had a 12 points lead after SP, for a short while, Javi was sort of content with the idea that winning a silver worlds medal is not bad at all. Then he had a different mind. He thought he still had a chance to defend his title if he put down a clean free skate, after all, the long program would be another competition.

I won't say Javi has nerves of steel, he himself admitted that he would become so nervous before the competitions and even his hands shake. But he has managed his nerve well and has proved with his two world titles and four Euros titles he has the ability to rise to the occasion when it matters the most.

Please also don't forget his coach, Brain Orser, who can be instrumental for his star students heading into their most important game. He did fantastic job to prepare Yuna for 2010's Olympics.

(Also, what you mentioned before: that most fans considered Patrick & Yuzuru as the toughest competition this season, and Javi's title as a fluck, which I thought was stupid)

Believe it or not, I read some comments that Javi was lucky to win 2016 titles because Yuzu bombed his free skate.