Javier Fernandez

[eppen]

Sol, welcome - hope you can join the discussions on a more positive note in the future! My observation on getting b-fast was meant to say that there are also differences between the Mediterranean countries, not so say which was the better way of life. The same late timetable applied also in getting breakfast in Paris and I have never even tried bars in Greece at that hour... Cultural stereotypes are handy and annoying at the same time - all nations have one, and as often as not, they apply!

And evergreen - congrats for the commitment on Helsinki! I'm kind of starting to dream of Saitama in 2019 My own situation with Helsinki is kind of funny because I'm moving abroad for work in just a couple of weeks and will have to travel to watch my home event A big Javi fan meeting is definetely in place!

e

 

[evergreen]

And evergreen - congrats for the commitment on Helsinki! I'm kind of starting to dream of Saitama in 2019 My own situation with Helsinki is kind of funny because I'm moving abroad for work in just a couple of weeks and will have to travel to watch my home event A big Javi fan meeting is definetely in place!

e

Thank you, eppen, and I cannot wait meeting you and other fans at Worlds' next year. Big congratulations on moving on to your next venture and Good luck for a smooth transition. Overseas job could be a wonderful adventure.

Wee, both David Wilson and Brian Orser are in Kobe this week for FaOI, how exciting Would they or one of them choreograph for the show? Brain did for FaOI opening last year. Has Brain lost some weight or because he is wearing black
DW & BO's greeting, FaOI 2016, Kobe

 

[liv]

I saw a picture last week of Brian and thought he had lost weight too. Good for him if true.

 

[xibsuarz]

Thank you, eppen, and I cannot wait meeting you and other fans at Worlds' next year. Big congratulations on moving on to your next venture and Good luck for a smooth transition. Overseas job could be a wonderful adventure.

Wee, both David Wilson and Brian Orser are in Kobe this week for FaOI, how exciting Would they or one of them choreograph for the show? Brain did for FaOI opening last year. Has Brain lost some weight or because he is wearing black
DW & BO's greeting, FaOI 2016, Kobe

Have a great meet up at Worlds! I think I have given up on the idea of being able to watch my current favorite skaters live before they retire but I hope you guys have a lot of fun!
I was thinking, if DW is in Japan, could there be the slightest chance that he will start talking to Javi about his new programs? Perhaps he might have something in mind already, or perhaps even some choreography prepared? It would be great :yes:

 

[eppen]

My Japanese agent from Kobe last night:

"Yesterday, Javi performed malagueña and a song with a Japanese singer. He looked good and a big big applause each time! [---] The Japanese artist Javi performed with was not a singer but Yoshida Brothers who played Japanese Shamisen guitars, and the title is Barcelona. This is the song one of them created while he was in Barcelona, and the genre is, I think, a kind of Flamenco. Javi wore a black shirt and tight black pants."

Based on this and a tweet probably this piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr4Bbwt8m18 (like it a lot actually

xibsuarz This is really the first time in my life I can actually go to see skating competions almost on a regular basis (well, some I will miss becaue I guess i have to work at times also ) and I'm happy that it happens to be right now...

It would be high time to start making decisions about programs and they're there now all three of them for two weeks. Plenty (?) of time to do that also?!

E

 

[honghe]

Thanks for the report, eppen!
It seems that Brian and David were only in Japan very briefly, though, and they have already left.

 

[Sol]

Thanks for your understanding, since i started to learn english i have seen this kind of stereotypes about Spain on the internet a lot of times and it can get annoying even if most of the time its just jokes without a bad intention.

But now that i registered i hope to join you in more possitive talks I started to follow figure skating at Vancouver olympics and i could never imagine at the time we will have a spanish world champion only 5 years later, or that i would be able to see a spaniard on the podium at a Grand Prix final live at my own country, at the time it all seemed impossible!
It was an amazing journey seeing him improve every year, even if he was lazy sometimes or didn't believed in himself Javi has acomplished extraordinary things and that can't be achieved with only talent, he also had to work hard and be brave to leave his home at 17 years old to get a chance to improve as a skater, and also needed lots of people supporting him and making sacrifices like his family did.

I'm also curious to know with what new programs Javi is going to surprise us this year, i hope that David Wilson gives him something entertaining, and also for the other spaniards in dance since this year both Sara and Adri are going to make their come back with their new partners, it's going to be an exciting year!

 

[honghe]

Thanks for your understanding, since i started to learn english i have seen this kind of stereotypes about Spain on the internet a lot of times and it can get annoying even if most of the time its just jokes without a bad intention.

But now that i registered i hope to join you in more possitive talks I started to follow figure skating at Vancouver olympics and i could never imagine at the time we will have a spanish world champion only 5 years later, or that i would be able to see a spaniard on the podium at a Grand Prix final live at my own country, at the time it all seemed impossible!
It was an amazing journey seeing him improve every year, even if he was lazy sometimes or didn't believed in himself Javi has acomplished extraordinary things and that can't be achieved with only talent, he also had to work hard and be brave to leave his home at 17 years old to get a chance to improve as a skater, and also needed lots of people supporting him and making sacrifices like his family did.

I'm also curious to know with what new programs Javi is going to surprise us this year, i hope that David Wilson gives him something entertaining, and also for the other spaniards in dance since this year both Sara and Adri are going to make their come back with their new partners, it's going to be an exciting year!

Hi Sol! Thank you for being so kind and for joining us!

Even for a non-Spanish fan like myself, it's very exciting and inspiring to watch Javi's journey. I can only imagine what a wonderful feeling it must be for Spanish figure skating fans to see him grow and develop. I agree that he must be very brave and love figure skating a lot, and that he and those around him must have made a lot of sacrifice.
Like you I am also waiting for information about Javi's new programs for the new season. He has had very good programs for the past two years and hopefully the trend will continue.

I like Sara and Adri a lot and was sad upon reading about their split. I am glad that they've both found new partners and will continue skating. I wish them all the best.
If I am not mistaken Adri will continue to train in Montreal. I wonder whether Sara will do the same. Also, since both their new partners are not Spanish, will they have enough time to get citizenship to be eligible for the Olympics in 2018? It would be a pity If neither Sara nor Adri can go to another Olympics...

 

[eppen]

Videos from FaOI in Kobe (probably the Friday night show because at least that one was televised):

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4h9q8s_2016-神戸-①_sport (here Javi is only in the opening)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4h9xvh_2016-神戸-②_sport (around 25 min the performance with Yoshida Bros)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ha8aj_2016-神戸-③_sport (Javi not in this section, but some of you might want to see the whole show )

I hope someone will post the last part, because the third bit did not include the finale.

Plus as an added bonus (?) two pics:

https://twitter.com/1121D1SKATE/status/744411964722446336 (The finale costume?)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGyzARDhhRi/ (Boy band?! I think age-wise only Javi would qualify )

Thinking back on the "lazy Javi" discussion got me to thinking his position and reputation in the skating world. His not-quite-so-enthusiastic attitude towards training is fairly well documented - it has come out in many different occasions and said by many different persons and he himself (more or less) has admitted to it. It should not be very significant if you think only about results - 4 Europeans, 2 Worlds, several medals in other major competitions in the past five years or so should speak for themselves. But from many comments and reading between the lines it is clear that he has not been respected by everyone in the skating community, because of what they might have perceived as not complete commitment to the sport. Good work ethic and hard work are values regarded high and considered something worthy of the prizes, medals etc. And these kind of labels are hard to get rid of - compare the commentators on his skating skills, spins etc who still very often maintain that he is somehow seriously lacking in those.

What I am maybe trying to say is that for us "lazy Javi" an affectionate joke, but others use it in a negative manner and will probably continue to do so without regard to whatever he will achieve in the next couple of years...

E

 

[honghe]

Thank you eppen for the links!

Thinking back on the "lazy Javi" discussion got me to thinking his position and reputation in the skating world. His not-quite-so-enthusiastic attitude towards training is fairly well documented - it has come out in many different occasions and said by many different persons and he himself (more or less) has admitted to it. It should not be very significant if you think only about results - 4 Europeans, 2 Worlds, several medals in other major competitions in the past five years or so should speak for themselves. But from many comments and reading between the lines it is clear that he has not been respected by everyone in the skating community, because of what they might have perceived as not complete commitment to the sport. Good work ethic and hard work are values regarded high and considered something worthy of the prizes, medals etc. And these kind of labels are hard to get rid of - compare the commentators on his skating skills, spins etc who still very often maintain that he is somehow seriously lacking in those.

What I am maybe trying to say is that for us "lazy Javi" an affectionate joke, but others use it in a negative manner and will probably continue to do so without regard to whatever he will achieve in the next couple of years...

E

That's an interesting point. I do sometimes get the sense that some people don't always seem to acknowledge how much Javi has progressed from year to year, from beginning to end of a season, etc. In addition to what you said, a friend of mine is also of the opinion that if someone come out of the junior ranks with no major medals and virtually no fanfare, it could be extra hard for him/her to get enough credit for almost anything. I never want to be the kind of fan who likes the complain, not to mention that I always admire Javi's positive attitude. So I'll just say that I am happy that Javi has brought a lot of joy to those who appreciate him, and that he has already achieved great things and will probably achieve more in the future.

 

[xibsuarz]

Videos from FaOI in Kobe (probably the Friday night show because at least that one was televised):

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4h9q8s_2016-神戸-①_sport (here Javi is only in the opening)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4h9xvh_2016-神戸-②_sport (around 25 min the performance with Yoshida Bros)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ha8aj_2016-神戸-③_sport (Javi not in this section, but some of you might want to see the whole show )

I hope someone will post the last part, because the third bit did not include the finale.

Plus as an added bonus (?) two pics:

https://twitter.com/1121D1SKATE/status/744411964722446336 (The finale costume?)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGyzARDhhRi/ (Boy band?! I think age-wise only Javi would qualify )

Thank you for the links, eppen! Javi in a bow tie looks great

 

[Jaana]

That's an interesting point. I do sometimes get the sense that some people don't always seem to acknowledge how much Javi has progressed from year to year, from beginning to end of a season, etc. In addition to what you said, a friend of mine is also of the opinion that if someone come out of the junior ranks with no major medals and virtually no fanfare, it could be extra hard for him/her to get enough credit for almost anything. I never want to be the kind of fan who likes the complain, not to mention that I always admire Javi's positive attitude. So I'll just say that I am happy that Javi has brought a lot of joy to those who appreciate him, and that he has already achieved great things and will probably achieve more in the future.

Besides, what many skating fans may forget, it is really difficult for a skater from a country like Spain (= not a so-called skating country at all ) to rise so high in results. Everything that Javi has achieved so far is something rare and very special. Of course after he won the Worlds bronze medal the first time and the Europeans he had arrived to the point that only his skating is significant... I remember from the book by Finnish ice dancers Rahkamo & Kokko that they mentioned the difficulty in achieving results (Finland was/is not considered something special in skating and the federation is not that important compared to bigger countries).

 

[eppen]

True that, Jaana - ice dance in those days was particularly hard to get into, I seem to remember... The kind of jump that Papadakis/Cizeron did was pretty much unheard of. Honghe - the comment about no junior success sounds just about right, also.

Javi is definitely a late bloomer and still keeps developing (I think) - this is also a little bit unusual when even guys tend to peak somewhat younger. And maybe hard for many to see and accept...

Whilst waiting for the last bit of the Kobe show to emerge, a little picbite (bottom right: Malaguena with black clothes ...)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BG1OoA-sPZC/?taken-by=dinda0407

E

 

[Sol]

Javi is definitely a late bloomer and still keeps developing (I think) - this is also a little bit unusual when even guys tend to peak somewhat younger. And maybe hard for many to see and accept...

E

I think you can't compare Javi career with most male skaters since he comes from a very small federation, since young he was always on a superior level and he didn't need much effort to get a chance to go to international competitions, he was even sent to his first seniors at 15. The guys from countries where the sport is popular need to be very competitive and take their careers very seriously since young just to ever get a chance to go to a competition. The ones that dont get achievements at that age may end quitting and we will never know how good they could have been just with more years of practice.

I like Sara and Adri a lot and was sad upon reading about their split. I am glad that they've both found new partners and will continue skating. I wish them all the best.
If I am not mistaken Adri will continue to train in Montreal. I wonder whether Sara will do the same. Also, since both their new partners are not Spanish, will they have enough time to get citizenship to be eligible for the Olympics in 2018? It would be a pity If neither Sara nor Adri can go to another Olympics...

Sara said after the split that she wanted to keep training with the same coaches, i hope they go to train there because i loved Sara and Adri programs, and i'm afraid that with a diferent coach the programs won't be as beautiful.
About the citizenship i dont know what they are going to do, but it seems that Sara is confident that they will be able to go to the olympics since only 5 days ago she posted this https://www.instagram.com/p/BGpDilwrP1T/ with the tag #madrileñosapyonchang .

 

[eppen]

Sol, good point, although if you look at careers of say Stephane Lambiel or Denis Ten, who come from pretty small federations, they had junior careers and success, Lambiel won the worlds when he was 20, Ten went to his first worlds at the age of 15 and finished in the top 10. Kevin Van Den Perren never rose to Javi's level, of course, but started with equally poor results in senior worlds, but at the same time did quite well in juniors. Michal Brezina was 2nd in the JWC, entered the senior worlds at 4th place. Of course, Switzerland, Czech Republic and even Kazakhstan (through connection with Russia/Soviet Union) have longer traditions in winter sport and even in figure skating than Spain, but really probably not much competition in their home countries, were sent to their first senior comps early on, had junior success etc.

Javi got his international breakthrough really only after starting to work with Brian at the tender age of 20 and after that it still took him a bit more time to get on the podium of major competitions. Coming from Spain and having no skating tradition in his own country must certainly be a factor in this, but it does not explain everything... Last year in the Worlds, I was a bit shocked to realize how he obviously had not even IMAGINED that he could win the competition. Now it is cool to see him gaining that confidence that he believes that he can win and can even claim goals towards that.

e

 

[tzazu]

Sol, good point, although if you look at careers of say Stephane Lambiel or Denis Ten, who come from pretty small federations, they had junior careers and success, Lambiel won the worlds when he was 20, Ten went to his first worlds at the age of 15 and finished in the top 10. Kevin Van Den Perren never rose to Javi's level, of course, but started with equally poor results in senior worlds, but at the same time did quite well in juniors. Michal Brezina was 2nd in the JWC, entered the senior worlds at 4th place. Of course, Switzerland, Czech Republic and even Kazakhstan (through connection with Russia/Soviet Union) have longer traditions in winter sport and even in figure skating than Spain, but really probably not much competition in their home countries, were sent to their first senior comps early on, had junior success etc.

Javi got his international breakthrough really only after starting to work with Brian at the tender age of 20 and after that it still took him a bit more time to get on the podium of major competitions. Coming from Spain and having no skating tradition in his own country must certainly be a factor in this, but it does not explain everything... Last year in the Worlds, I was a bit shocked to realize how he obviously had not even IMAGINED that he could win the competition. Now it is cool to see him gaining that confidence that he believes that he can win and can even claim goals towards that.

e

I'd never say Lambiel or Brezina come from small feds, they are not canadian or japanes feds, but at least, in those countries there is a lot more tradition in figure skating (Tomas Verner, for example, skating rinks and so) than in Spain, where it follows being practically nonexistent
I forgot Denise Biellmann!

 

[hamaguri]

Whilst waiting for the last bit of the Kobe show to emerge, a little picbite (bottom right: Malaguena with black clothes ...)

Here! (the image is a bit rough.)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4hds10_2016-faoi-神戸-④-映像に乱れがあります_sport
(Miki, Chesna, Javi, Stephane, finale, jump battle, etc.)

I find Miki and Javi's black outfits perfectly wonderful with their performances.

 

[eppen]

I'd never say Lambiel or Brezina come from small feds, they are not canadian or japanes feds, but at least, in those countries there is a lot more tradition in figure skating (Tomas Verner, for example, skating rinks and so) than in Spain, where it follows being practically nonexistent
I forgot Denise Biellmann!

Maybe... I forgot Verner So Brezina had an example close in time, for Verner it was guys in the 1980s/early 90s (Sabovzik and Barna). But the Czech and Swiss are still fairly small figure skating federations IMHO The point of coming from a small federation was also in the skaters being lone representatives for their age group with little local competition, getting sent to international comps very early and actually making a splash either in juniors and/or in seniors at an early age. The guys were able to get over the smallness of their domestic scene by turning to international scene. And even in large federations the top skaters can be fairly lonely and without competition - Patrick Chan probably never was really challenged by his peers in Canada?

As we all know, Javi was picked up by a top coach in his teens and he was not able to benefit from that time very much. Better results, sure, but nothing spectacular still. Amodio, on the other hand, did take what Morozov had to give and won his first Europeans. The career pattern for most top guys in the past 10-15 years is a bit like what Honghe referred to: good junior years followed by senior success very quickly, top results around age 20 or so. Javi is the big exception having had really no junior success and getting his best stuff out around his mid twenties. He is a late bloomer, but I don't think it has all to do with his Spanish background and federation...

Thanks Hamaguri!

It was Father's Day in some parts of the world yesterday and Miki posted this adorable pic:
https://twitter.com/M1K1_ANDO/status/744544965242458113

e

 

[evergreen]

Interesting discussion on 'lazy' Javi and small federations.

I think that in general skaters of small federation as well as young talented up comers have a better time under IJS than 6.0 system; on the other hand, since IJS is more 'friendly' towards performances with 'mistakes', the competitions, especially men's field, has became much more fierce & unpredictable; it is extremely tough to keep up with the top level in light of the almost insane technical content nowadays; Machida bailed out the game partly because it would be very hard for him to top his 2013-14 season and he is just 1 year older than Javi; same with Florent Amodio, it was an emotional farewell at 2016 Euros', but his retirement makes sense, what is point to stay in the game knowing his body cannot take the high level training on daily basis any more.

Speaking of Javi's 'laziness' in his early career, I would rather to have a positive outlook, firstly, having trained quads since 15-16, he hasn't sustained any serious or chronic injuries; secondly, if he was able to achieve those international competition success (3 Euros titles, 4th Olympics, 2 worlds bronze medals, 2 GP titles & 2GPF medals) without working too hard, when his training attitude has changed big time after 15' Euros, according to Tracy Wilson and his training mates Nam & Yuzu, the skating world has to be in awe of his huge potential since he got himself 2 world titles in a row and the 4th consecutive Euros' title; isn't Super Javi a much more appropriate nickname instead of "Lazy Javi"

Not only Javi represents a small federation, he was born and raised in a country with no winter sport tradition, mostly because it hardly snows :disapp: in addition to short of funding, career supporting system, lack of facility/world class coaches and other resources, I cannot imagine how hard it is for a youngster pursuing a career in skating which the majority of his countrymen hardly understand or appreciate at the outset. I think that both Julian Zhi Jie Yee from Malaysia and Michael Christian Martinez are in similar situation, I admire these young men's talent, pure passion for the sports and amazing courage despite all the hurdles they have to overcome, they are the pioneers of their own countries in the figure skating, regardless of their world standings. On the other hand, what Javi has accomplished are really extra-ordinary and I have to say that his path of success is full of miracles

On a side note, it is cool to see that Brian was invited to a seminar/work clinic in Thailand after 16 worlds; I think kids in these tropical countries have rare opportunities to take skating lessons from top-notch coaches like Brian.

 

[evergreen]

Besides, what many skating fans may forget, it is really difficult for a skater from a country like Spain (= not a so-called skating country at all ) to rise so high in results. Everything that Javi has achieved so far is something rare and very special. Of course after he won the Worlds bronze medal the first time and the Europeans he had arrived to the point that only his skating is significant... ).

I cannot agree you more. When a skater from non-skating tradition country comes out to compete, he or she is fighting a lonely battle, since his or her home country does not have an established fan base and they rarely have chance to compete in front of their home crowd; Javi said when he started to compete at the international stage, he only saw one or two Spanish flags if he competed in Europe, one from his parents and another from his relatives/family friends, hence, when he gained some fame and spot a lot of Spanish flags in arenas where he competed, he almost broke into tears.

I remember from the book by Finnish ice dancers Rahkamo & Kokko that they mentioned the difficulty in achieving results (Finland was/is not considered something special in skating and the federation is not that important compared to bigger countries).

Rahkamo & Kokko was one of the ice dance couples whose performances drew me into the skating world:luv17: Figure skating has been notoriously known for its political things, ice dance at the late 80'- 90's were dominated by USSR/Russian, R&K and other outstanding ice dance couples from small federations were practically fighting to knock on a closed door.