Javier Fernandez

[Lyyli]

In ISU interview Javi was asked to give advice to the next generation of figure skaters. In his answer he talked only about the amount of quads in FS and the multiple falls they have led to. He was wondering whether it is wise to limit the amount of quads to three in FS, should ISU change the rules or should skaters themselves decide to do so.

This question has bothered me too. I am a long-term FS fan but I have only recently found FS sites like GS so I don´t know if fans have been discussing about this issue here. I haven´t found a thread about this question but if there is could you please let me know thanks! Is Javi the first skaters talking about this in public?



J: The problem with athletes is that they always want to be the best and when you want to be the best you will try whatever to be the best. So I don’t think it even takes in the skaters, I think it takes more in the rules. Skating has changed so much in a little time that, at some point, there are going to have to be new rules until you can see that there aren’t going to be triples anymore, I don’t know. I leave that to the smart people to decide how is the best way to change that. We hear every day, you see a competition and everybody is falling around because everyone is trying to push to the limits. Maybe I don’t do as many quads as Shoma (Uno) or as Yuzu (Hanyu) or as Boyang (Jin) or Nathan (Chen) but I am trying to push my skating to the limit then my quads are going to be harder to do. That’s the big question: is it going to be the skaters that realize it or does the ISU need to make a rule that says only three quads in the free program? Now that’s going to be the real fight where the best skater, the best jumper, the best spinner, the best everything is going to be, even if all programs are clean, one of them is going to be the champion because he is the best at everything. That will be one thing. I don’t know – it’s hard to know. I say it as a skater, but there are so many things involved that we probably don’t even know, but we will see.

 

[tureis]

As far as I know Patrick Chan has definitely spoken about similar concerns in interviews a few times, but I can't remember whether there was a specific thread about this topic.

 

[tureis]

So with Boyang out, Javi is now the first substitute for the GPF and would be required to participate in case of another withdrawal before Monday noon Nagoya time. God forbid that happening, for the sake of the 6 who are currently left standing in this insane season cursed with the most problems, illnesses and injuries in living memory, and for Javi's sake, who would probably be faced with the shortest prep time of his career. I dread to think what else this season may bring...:hopelessness:

 

[xibsuarz]

So with Boyang out, Javi is now the first substitute for the GPF and would be required to participate in case of another withdrawal before Monday noon Nagoya time. God forbid that happening, for the sake of the 6 who are currently left standing in this insane season cursed with the most problems, illnesses and injuries in living memory, and for Javi's sake, who would probably be faced with the shortest prep time of his career. I dread to think what else this season may bring...:hopelessness:

Don't worry, the other 6 guys seem to be in good (or at least decent) condition (well I am not sure about Shoma but there is no way he is missing a GPF in his home country AND hometown!). But I'm curious, if Javi gets chosen for the Final, can he turn it down?

 

[tureis]

As next substitute in line, Javi is obligated to go if someone drops out before Monday noon. After that, he can decline. And he probably would, because it quickly becomes physically impossible to make it to Nagoya from Toronto in reasonable time for the competition.

 

[eppen]

Four hours to midday in Japan - the deadline for any further withdrawals and Javi's possible substitution duty... I wonder what he is thinking now...

I have collected Javi statistics and updated this season's results in it today and then started thinking about how many quads has he jumped in competitions over the years? I thought first that not all the data would be available, but in the end did find most of it - only the protocols for the Cup of Nice 2009 are missing and that could be his very first 4T if there was one there.

My method was simple: went through the official protocols and checked the quads - only the ones approved by the tech panel have been included naturally. I counted all the competitions, international, national and Japan Opens. Then I also looked at how many got 0.00 or positive GOE.

The first 4T happened in the Merano Cup in 2009 (well, unless he hit one in Cup of Nice before that). The first 4S was in the Worlds 2011 and that was the first two quad FS for him as well. The three quad FS saw daylight in the fall of 2012 - the first competition where it all worked out was NHK Trophy (third try). The first two quad SP occurred in the 2015 Spanish Nationals.

2009-10: 4 quads, 1 with positive GOE.
2010-11: 6 quads, 3 with positive GOE.
2011-12: 14 quads, 9 with positive GOE.
2012-13: 23 quads, 17 with positive GOE.
2013-14: 22 quads, 11 with positive GOE.
2014-15: 23 quads, 11 with positive GOE. The only underroration in JO!
2015-16: 27 quads, 18 with positive GOE.
2016-17: 30 quads, 21 with positive GOE. The only downgrade in GPF!
2017-18: 11 quads, 9 with positive GOE.

Altogether 160 with 100 0.00 or positive GOEs = a success rate of 62% or so.

I will do a recount later just to be sure... I wonder who has the highest number of quads in competition? Javi is probably close to the top or at the top within the currently active skaters (Chan? Hanyu?), but I wonder about Plushenko? Joubert passed the 100 mark, I recall.

E

 

[Mussique]

Four hours to midday in Japan - the deadline for any further withdrawals and Javi's possible substitution duty... I wonder what he is thinking now...

I have collected Javi statistics and updated this season's results in it today and then started thinking about how many quads has he jumped in competitions over the years? I thought first that not all the data would be available, but in the end did find most of it - only the protocols for the Cup of Nice 2009 are missing and that could be his very first 4T if there was one there.

My method was simple: went through the official protocols and checked the quads - only the ones approved by the tech panel have been included naturally. I counted all the competitions, international, national and Japan Opens. Then I also looked at how many got 0.00 or positive GOE.

The first 4T happened in the Merano Cup in 2009 (well, unless he hit one in Cup of Nice before that). The first 4S was in the Worlds 2011 and that was the first two quad FS for him as well. The three quad FS saw daylight in the fall of 2012 - the first competition where it all worked out was NHK Trophy (third try). The first two quad SP occurred in the 2015 Spanish Nationals.

2009-10: 4 quads, 1 with positive GOE.
2010-11: 6 quads, 3 with positive GOE.
2011-12: 14 quads, 9 with positive GOE.
2012-13: 23 quads, 17 with positive GOE.
2013-14: 22 quads, 11 with positive GOE.
2014-15: 23 quads, 11 with positive GOE. The only underroration in JO!
2015-16: 27 quads, 18 with positive GOE.
2016-17: 30 quads, 21 with positive GOE. The only downgrade in GPF!
2017-18: 11 quads, 9 with positive GOE.

Altogether 160 with 100 0.00 or positive GOEs = a success rate of 62% or so.

I will do a recount later just to be sure... I wonder who has the highest number of quads in competition? Javi is probably close to the top or at the top within the currently active skaters (Chan? Hanyu?), but I wonder about Plushenko? Joubert passed the 100 mark, I recall.

E

Awesome analysis eppen, thank you so much! It'd be definitely interesting to compare it to the rest of the men's field statistics.

 

[tureis]

These really are remarkable stats! Also, I'm quite sure 160 is the highest all time number right now. Others will surpass Javi eventually given the crazy number of quads these days, but the most incredible stat for me is just the ONE underrotation and ONE downgrade. Out of 160! That's fascinating, and a testament to how good Javi's technique is!

 

[cathlen]

I'm sure it was posted before, but I just can't: https://www.instagram.com/p/pi8ktEDAbW/?taken-by=takahitobh5d

 

[tzazu]

I'm sure it was posted before, but I just can't: https://www.instagram.com/p/pi8ktEDAbW/?taken-by=takahitobh5d

 

[Crossover]

I'm sure it was posted before, but I just can't: https://www.instagram.com/p/pi8ktEDAbW/?taken-by=takahitobh5d

Awesome! Super cute Javi in the yellow duck headgear. :agree:

It was posted by Mura, which is unexpected for me.

 

[chiraya]

Javi with....? https://www.instagram.com/p/BcTXwwfn5wc/

 

[cathlen]

Awesome! Super cute Javi in the yellow duck headgear. :agree:

It was posted by Mura, which is unexpected for me.

I wasn't expecting to find Javi on Taka's instagram either, but all the better for me! As you said, Javi looks super cute :luv17:

 

[Mussique]

Javi with....? https://www.instagram.com/p/BcTXwwfn5wc/

New gf, apparently.
Man, that's one embarrassing thread of fan comments:noshake::hslap:
I'm glad for once that he doesn't seem to follow his media that closely. I'm getting so much second-hand embarrassment it's insane.

Cathlen that's super cute!!! Such a huge dork :luv17:

Edit: timetables for Spain Nationals are up!
Senior men (the three of them, lol) are supposed to start at 19:40 GMT+1 on Saturday 16th and at 17:00 GMT+1 on Sunday 17th. I haven't been able to find a livestream yet.

 

[tureis]

Man, that's one embarrassing thread of fan comments:noshake::hslap:
I'm glad for once that he doesn't seem to follow his media that closely. I'm getting so much second-hand embarrassment it's insane.

Same here! Some people are beyond ridiculous with their fantasies, but to actually comment directly at the guy... Javi is with whoever makes him happy and that's what should be most important, and shown at least some respect.

 

[Plumededragon]

I think Javi’s GF is the girl that appears in his photos those last months, nice! I missed the mess from yesterday but yeah, no doubt it was bad since he went as far as turning off the comments (but, honestly, what else could he do).
No wonder he posts very casually on his IG if people gets way out of hand with their comments about his private life (added to that that Javi and Miki broke up months ago) every time.

I hope he’ll forget the “incident” quickly and move on to things that really matter: Nationals and Europe.
Btw, is he doing his show again this year or not?

 

[tureis]

Btw, is he doing his show again this year or not?

Not this year, thankfully. As enormously gratifying as it must have been to pull that off, he couldn't really afford the distraction last year either (as evidenced by his showing at the GPF), and that's a lot more true this year. He will have all the time in the world after next March for that.

 

[Plumededragon]

Not this year, thankfully. As enormously gratifying as it must have been to pull that off, he couldn't really afford the distraction last year either (as evidenced by his showing at the GPF), and that's a lot more true this year. He will have all the time in the world after next March for that.

True, with all the things he was doing beside training last year, I had a feeling GPF would not go well (and having seen him live there, it was shocking for fan and non-fan like me to see him so off). If this season is really his last, as he hinted, he knows he can’t afford to much distraction.
Yuzu and Javi were really missed at this year GPF, it was awful.

 

[tureis]

Yeah well, Javi and Yuzu could have also bombed. But I agree that these boys had a chance here to step forward, and they did nothing to make us forget for a single second about those who weren't there...

Javi news:

He is back in Spain and was invited to take the honorary kick at the LaLiga match between Getafe and Eibar. Apparently this match was specifically promoted for Japan, so it makes even more sense that Javi would be involved, himself being well known in Japan.

Also, we have our first glimpse at the big Spanish Eurosport documentary on Javi. The section we see shows him watching himself skate to Touch of Evil. It's adorable how he taps with his fingers along with the music and makes little moves from the choreography.

 

[eppen]

I have finally checked each and every quad Javi has done in competition – there is happily good documentation (ie official protocols) available for 99% of them. I also used the site Rink Results for some that I could not get my hands on (one international and more than half of Spanish nationals). I also watched ALL the jumps on video (had two public holidays this week!) – all the internationals are/have been available (!), some Spanish nationals one I don’t have in my collection.

There is a small “but” here, however. The first documented 4T is from 2009 Merano Cup in the first year Pirates FS. From that fall, the protocols from the Cup of Nice are not available, but his total score from the FS there (130,58) suggests that there could have been a quad there. Should anyone have or find the protocols for 2009 Cup of Nice men’s competition, please, let me know!

Total including the Spanish Nationals is 167. In international competitions 148. In the following seasonal review only international competitions have been include.

2009-10: 4 in 6 competitions, 4T in FS (1 quad per competition = potentially 6 for the whole season. 1 with positive GOE, the rest negative, 1 fall)
2010-11: 6 in 6 competitions, 4T in FS, until the Worlds where he did 2, first 4S (1-2 per competition = potentially 6 for the whole season. 3 with positive GOE, 3 negative, 2 falls)
2011-12: 16 in 5 competitions, 4T in SP; 4T and 4S in FS (3 per competition, potentially 18 for the whole season. 11 with positive GOE, 5 negative, no falls)
2012-13: 20 in 6 competitions, 4T in SP; 4S, 4T and 4T+3T in FS (4 per competition, potentially 24 for the whole season. 16 with positive GOE, 4 negative, 1 fall)
2013-14: 20 in 6 competitions, 4T in SP; 4S, 4T and 4T+3T in FS (3–4 per competition [Japan Open with only FS], potentially 23 for the whole season. 10 with positive GOE, 10 negative, 2 falls)
2014-15: 20 in 6 competitions, 4T in SP; 4S, 4T and 4T+3T in FS (3–4 per competition [Japan Open with only FS], potentially 23 for the whole season. 10 with positive GOE, 10 negative, 5 falls, 1 <)
2015-16: 23 in 6 competitions, 4T in SP until Europeans when 4S and 4T+3T; 4S, 4T and 4T+3T in FS (3–5 per competition [Japan Open with only FS], potentially 25 for the whole season. 15 with positive GOE, 8 negative, 3 falls)
2016-17: 26 in 6 competitions, 4S and 4T+3T in SP; 4S, 4T and 4T+3T in FS (3–5 per competition [Japan Open with only FS], potentially 28 for the whole season. 17 with positive GOE, 9 negative, 3 falls, 1 <)
2017-18: 13 in 4 competitions, 4S and 4T+3T in SP; 4S, 4T and 4T+3T in FS (3–5 per competition [Japan Open with only FS], potentially 18 so far for the season. 11 with positive GOE, 2 negative, 1 fall)

He has done 86,5% of the potential jumps (171). The ratio of positive:negative GOE is roughly 2:1 (or 63,5% and 36,5% respectively).

* * *

Then I also did a bit of work on other skaters. This whole thing was prompted by my memory of Brian Joubert going over 100 quads in his competitive career He reached that milestone in 2013 and was the first to do that. Afterwards he did 12 (all documented) and so reached about 112 in his career (about because it is not clear whether he got exactly 100 or went over it already in that Challenge Cup).

In that connection Evgeni Plushenko and Konstantin Menshov were also mentioned with 94 as Plushenko’s total at that time. It is not possible to verify Plushenko’s jumps from the data available, but if that 94 is correct, then afterwards he did a few more and reached about 100. Menshov was easier, because some 70 of his quads can be verified thanks to RinkResults and about 100 in his career is a fair approximation of his achievement.

From the current active skaters, I looked at Patrick Chan and Yuzuru Hanyu first. Chan’s jumps can be followed in the protocols 100% (start in 2010) and he has now 97 internationally with 93,3% success from potential and positive:negative GOE roughly 1:1 (56% and 44%). Hanyu has 118 (also 100% verified, start also in 2010) with success rate at 88,1% and positive:negative GOE at 2:1 (65% and 35%). Both have more under rotations and downgrades than Javi (Chan 7 <; Hanyu 6 <, 3 <<). ADD: I apologize for Sergei "Granddaddy" Voronov for forgetting him in the first phase. But he started doing the 4T in 2007 junior Worlds and has since gotten up to about 96 quads. (I'll add the pos:neg etc when I have the time to do and check the calculations.)

Then I looked at the younger guys. These guys were the first generation to start doing quads as juniors, I think. Boyang Jin was the earliest to start and since 2012 he has done 112 quads with success rate at 95%, positive:negative GOE 1:1 (49% and 51%). Shoma Uno has been jumping quads since 2014 and he has 110 now with success rate at 95% and positive:negative GOE at roughly 1:1 (44% and 56%). Nathan Chen started also in 2014 and has now 82 quads (all verified) with success rate at 99% and positive:negative GOE approaching 2:1 (58% and 42%). Shoma has 5 << and 7 < in his record, Boyang has 6 < and 1 <<, Nathan 3 < and 1 <<.

Last season was truly the quad season (I think everyone noticed!): Shoma 53 in 10 competitions, Nathan 47 in 7 competitions, Hanyu 36 in 7 competitions, Boyang 35 in 6 competitions, Javi 26 in 6 competitions, Patrick 25 in 7 competitions.

As far as I could find out then the list of skaters with probably at least 100 quads in their international careers:

1. Javier Fernández 148
2. Yuzuru Hanyu 118
3. Boyang Jin 112
4. Brian Joubert ca. 112
5. Shoma Uno 110
6. Evgeni Plushenko ca. 100
7. Konstantin Menshov ca. 100

E