Jeremy Abbott

[jennylovskt]

I feel some of Weir's artistry has gone downhill in recent years and Lysacek has always just been about the arm-flailing. Jeremy offers something really refreshing.

I feel this way too. Some of Johnny's movements appeared in almost all his programs and I could remember where they came from. I thought, "Oh, that again? Can't you invent something else?" Any good movements, if you use them too often and too much, they'll become annoying. That's why that most people hate biellmann spin in ladies. I actually think the spin is very, very beautiful. But it's annoying to see that.

Evan, what can I say? A hopeless case. But at least I feel that I should support him on the ground that so many wanted to push him to the other side. He is a great athlete! Just don't like his style, that's all.

Jeremy is amazing! I have said it before and I'll say it again that a true artistic skater who can actually jump! That is amazing. Of course, he is not the first and only skater to do it. Lambiel and Takahashi can do it too.

I hope that Jeremy won't be too hyper with his wins so far and really come down and focus and win something bigger. Good luck, Jeremy!

 

[Tinymavy15]

Jeremy, for me rivals Lambiel in artistry. Watching him is a treat.

I agree the Weir seems to be doing the same moves over and over, all his footwork has looked the same. His SP is original, but only after the jumps end. I don't like it, acting like a Las Vegas sideshow act is not my definition of artistry, but granted it is something new from him.

Evan tries, but he is not an "artistic" skater and never will be. I think this year his programs package him very well and I feel that especially in his SP he really tries to get into a charachter.

 

[jennylovskt]

And I have to add that I really love Jeremy's costume choices this season. Much better than the last season. I love his National Gala's costume! He looks very handsome in it! I guess it's the influence of Yuka Sato.

 

[Mathman]

Let's consider that Plushy and Jeremy skate very well in Vancouver.

Under 6.0 we can give Plushy these marks:

Technical ....... ave score 5.9

Presentation ...ave score 5.8

Those are very good marks.

Now here is Jeremy's score:

Technical..........ave score 5.8

Presentation ....ave score 5.9

Also very good marks. It appears to be a tie.

But under the 6.0 system Jeremy would be the winner because 6.0 valued artisitry and presentation over technical skating.

I have an off topic question about skating history. Am I remembering this right, or am I just making this up? I believe that at one time in the 6.0 system the tie-breaker for men was the technical mark in both short and long programs, while the tie-breaker for ladies was the artistic mark.

Then they changed it to be the technical mark in the short program and the artistic mark in ther long, for both men and women.

Is this true?

 

[janetfan]

I have an off topic question about skating history. Am I remembering this right, or am I just making this up? I believe that at one time in the 6.0 system the tie-breaker for men was the technical mark in both short and long programs, while the tie-breaker for ladies was the artidstic mark.

Then they changed it to be the technical mark in the short program and the artistic mark in ther long, for both men and women.

Is this true?

I have no idea if that is true or when the tie break rules were changed/ implemented. It makes sense for the "free skate" to have the presentation marks as a tiebreaker and for the "technical program" to use the technical marks.

What are the tie break rules for CoP? We saw Evan and Johnny tie in '08 and how was it decided? Was the winner of the LP awarded the victory? What would be the next tie breaker - the winner of the SP? What if there was a tie in both programs? Would bribes to the tech panel determine the winner

 

[gkelly]

I have an off topic question about skating history. Am I remembering this right, or am I just making this up? I believe that at one time in the 6.0 system the tie-breaker for men was the technical mark in both short and long programs, while the tie-breaker for ladies was the artidstic mark.

I think it was always the technical mark for both disciplines, until they changed it. I don't think there was ever a gender distinction.

What are the tie break rules for CoP? We saw Evan and Johnny tie in '08 and how was it decided? Was the winner of the LP awarded the victory? What would be the next tie breaker - the winner of the SP? What if there was a tie in both programs? Would bribes to the tech panel determine the winner

See page 24:
http://isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-191593-208816-140518-0-file,00.pdf

If there were a tie in both programs, then they would remain tied.

Note that there are tiebreakers within each program, so even if the skaters had the same total score in each program, there might still be a winner of each program.

 

[janetfan]

The Battle of the Brians free skate was definitely decided on the tech mark as a tiebreaker, one judge gave Boitano 5.9/5.8 and Orser 5.8./.5.9. They were tied for 1st but the tech mark broke the tie.

I never knew that ended in a tie? My recollection of 6.0 tie breakers was that the artisitic marks trumped the technical marks. I could be wrong and don't remember many ties. A close decision was the one between Oksana and Nancy back in '94. But I don't recall that as a tie, just very close scoring with the victory going to Oksana.

 

[gkelly]

There were many levels of tiebreakers. The 5.8/5.9 vs. 5.9/5.8 first or second mark tiebreaker for the marks a single judge was only the first level.

That does not mean that the skaters were ever tied, just that the judge gave them the same total of the two marks for that program.

That's the tiebreaker that changed from first mark to second mark in the free program after 1988. There were a variety of other changes over the years.

The whole point of tiebreakers is that the skaters are not really "tied" until they all run out and there's no further way to break a tie.

 

[Mathman]

A close decision was the one between Oksana and Nancy back in '94. But I don't recall that as a tie, just very close scoring with the victory going to Oksana.

As I recall, the individual judges were not allowed to give two skaters the exact same marks. I think that was why there was so much jockeyng around and "leaving room" so that a judge could insert a later skater in between two closely matched earlier skaters if need be.

In the case of the 1884 Olympics, the judges split right down cold war lines, with Ukraine, Poland, Czech Republik, and China giving first place ordinals to Oksana, and USA, Canada, Great Britain and Japan going for Nancy.

The German judge, Jan Hoffmann (who had represented East Germany in four different Olymoics and won the silver medal in 1980) gave Nancy 5.8, 5.8 and Oksana 5.7, 5.9. This gave Oksana her fifth 1st-place ordinal. Under the "majority of ordinals" method that was in use at the time (in 1998 it was changed to OBO), that was that. Oksana had the majority of first place ordinals, she won the free skate and the gold medal.

Oksana's ordinals were 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3. (Lu Chen was placed ahead of Oksana in second by two judges).

Nancy's were 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2.

Hoffmann was known as an "artistry" judge rather than a "technical" judge. Besides favoring Oksana over Nancy, he also gave Michelle Kwan one of her three first place ordinals against Tara in 1998.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Hoffmann was wrong in both cases.

 

[gkelly]

Not this has anything to do with Jeremy Abbott any more...

As I recall, the individual judges were not allowed to give two skaters the exact same marks. I think that was why there was so much jockeyng around and "leaving room" so that a judge could insert a later skater in between two closely matched earlier skaters if need be.

That's what they were supposed to do, but occasionally in large fields they did inadvertently give two skaters the same marks and therefore the same ordinals.

For example, at Lillehammer, the Czech judge gave both Tonya Harding and Krisztina Czako 5.2/5.3 in the short program, and therefore they both got seventh-place ordinals from that judge.

http://winter-olympic-memories.com/html/results/jp_3d/17_lillehammer/17_figure/17_figure_w_ex.htm

There were a few other examples involving different judges and different skaters in that event. But none of those pairs of skaters ended up tied in the standings, only on one judge's card.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I do not think there are enough points in the CoP's PC scores to overcome an over-the-top Tech score which also influences the PC scores. We only saw one tie at US Nats under CoP. It'll be 20 years before we see another.

 

[Figure88]

I don't know why everyone is so down on Evan. His scores this season are phenomenal and totally in the league with any of the top scorers like Lambiel and Plush. Check out this list that someone made:

1 255.39 Evgeni PLUSHENKO RUS European Championships 2010 [#38]
2 249.45 Evan LYSACEK USA ISU GP Final 2009/2010 [#2]
3 243.36 Nobunari ODA JPN ISU GP Final 2009/2010 [#14]
4 238.54 Stephane LAMBIEL SUI European Championships 2010 [#17]

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=71244

Only 6 pts from the lead in a performance (GPF) that had mistakes! Jeremy is very good skater, too.

 

[Hsuhs]

I don't know why everyone is so down on Evan. His scores are phenomenal and totally in the league with any of the top scorers like Lambiel and Plush.

Prob b/c there's something about his skating/ personality that doesn't attract tons of fans. To me, he is a phenomenal example of how someone with a zero natural talent but with very strong work ethics can achieve anything in life.

Jeremy is very good skater, too.

Is he? You are too generous in your assessment.

Also, can we plz keep those boring ladiezzzz discussions out of this thread? There's 1000s threads for that already. I can't put everybody on my ignore list (ppl like mods), and I wouldn't want to do that.

 

[seniorita]

People just we tend to remember the last skate and in the last skate Jeremy was awesome and won over Evan .
Dont compare scores from different competitions, gpf had only 6 skaters and the only one with quad in sp and lp was last. Marks were inflated there as they were in Euros also. No conclusions.

Lol the Isu ranking is hilarious!

 

[shine]

I don't know why everyone is so down on Evan. His scores are phenomenal and totally in the league with any of the top scorers like Lambiel and Plush. Check out this list that someone made:

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=71244

Only 6 pts from the lead in a performance (GPF) that had mistakes! Jeremy is very good skater, too.

Since when has winning many competitions and scoring very well automatically made everybody like you? Plushenko, anyone?

 

[Figure88]

Prob b/c there's something about his skating/ personality that doesn't attract tons of fans. To me, he is a phenomenal example of how someone with a zero natural talent but with very strong work ethics can achieve anything in life.



Is he? You are too generous in your assessment.

Uh, I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. That was not a sleight on Jeremy. I'm supportive of Jeremy as well. Maybe, he might be better than Evan. However, we've only seen Jeremy do well at some competitions and then fold at others, as he did at GPF. Evan, however, has won 2 major international competitions. His scores are in the same league as former Olympians, whereas we don't know if Jeremy's phenomenal score 263 can be repeated in international competition. Jeremy and Evan are about equal in my eyes.

Regardless, I think US men have a very strong team going into Vancouver and have a very strong chance of medalling. I'm not picky as to whether it will be Jeremy or Evan.

Also, can we plz keep those boring ladiezzzz discussions out of this thread? There's 1000s threads for that already. I can't put everybody on my ignore list (ppl like mods), and I wouldn't want to do that

Really, is this your own personal thread?

This thread was created partly in support of the American men going into Vancouver. I'm sure for many Americans it's not either/or as to who they would support in Vancouver.

 

[jennylovskt]

Prob b/c there's something about his skating/ personality that doesn't attract tons of fans. To me, he is a phenomenal example of how someone with a zero natural talent but with very strong work ethics can achieve anything in life.

:agree::agree::agree: He has achieved looked like impossible, such as the Worlds. But enough is enough. It's time for someone who is really capable in technic and/or artistry to win.

Also, can we plz keep those boring ladiezzzz discussions out of this thread? There's 1000s threads for that already. I can't put everybody on my ignore list (ppl like mods), and I wouldn't want to do that.

Yeah, please keep at least the ladies discussion out of this thread, so I don't have to read them. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Evan, however, has won 2 major international competitions. His scores are in the same league as former Olympians, whereas we don't know if Jeremy's phenomenal score 263 can be repeated in international competition. Jeremy and Evan are about equal in my eyes.

Oh, please! Evan was lucky. That's all.

Really, is this your own personal thread?

This thread was created partly in support of the American men going into Vancouver. I'm sure for many Americans it's not either/or as to who they would support in Vancouver.

No! This thread title is Jeremy Abbott. So we should talk about Jeremy Abbott and anything related to Jeremy Abbott. If you want a thread to support all American male skaters, you are entitled and welcomed to create a thread for it.

 

[Figure88]

^^Oh please, you're going tell me that Americans will actually be "offended" if Evan ends up with a medal at Vancouver over Jeremy. That's hilarious.

 

[jennylovskt]

^^Oh please, you're going tell me that Americans will actually be "offended" if Evan ends up with a medal at Vancouver over Jeremy. That's hilarious.

What?!

We are talking about keeping the thread on topic. What are you talking about?!:scratch: It has nothing to do with the Americans. 99% of the Americans don't go on figure skating forums and don't read and post here. You don't need to show that patriotic ego everywhere. This is an international skating forum, not American forum.