Papadakis publishes book; Cizeron challenges claims | Page 16 | Golden Skate

Papadakis publishes book; Cizeron challenges claims

Could I ask has anyone who is commentating on this thread actually read the entire book or is everyone just reacting to quotes which were likely taken out of context? Personally , I haven't read the book nor do I think I'm qualified to make judgements about a person's mental health after reading a few quotes. Maybe, withhold your judgment until you've actually read the book or if you have no plans to read it ( like me) just acknowledge that and don't jump to conclusions.

So far, it seems to me this thread is mostly just people using this book as an opportunity to discuss their dislike of unrelated individuals or Gabby herself because she dared to share her opinion about a person/ people certain fans have a parasocial relationship with.
I haven't read the book, but I've seen the documentary a few years ago. I think part of the problem is that her mom seems not exactly an empathic person and she was her coach. Gabriella seems not to have had much spare time in her childhood. Her dad didn't live with them. Her mom said that when she and Guillaume left for Lyons, she lost her "project". Please don't jump to conclusions and judge, her mom raised her alone, taught her everything she could, and paired her with the best boy in town, but that's probably not quite enough, and I did get a feeling that Guillaume's were a more united family that could provide a bit more support for him. They were connected to the rink as well - management or owners - I forget. Point is, it's a small town more like a village, and being used to a mixture of parent/coach/management roles, it might be unsurprising that having moved to a big city, she couldn't un-mix them and expected something like a bit of parenting from her coaching staff, who acted like business partners normally do. They didn't do anything bad to her, they did what they were supposed to do. I think that Maya's summary is probably not too far and kinda in sync with what I saw.
I always think that winning against a competitor who is at their best is the way to go as @Arigato has mentioned as well. So no, I don't think it's a good thing at all... and also, there is a difference about maybe wishing that a competitor may miss their twizzles and saying it out loud.

In any case, I'm not here to fight. I'll let the mob judge me if they are so incline to do so. I stand by what I said and that's the end of it for me.
There is a lot more to it. I haven't read the book, but Gabby says in the documentary, that Tessa came to every practice with a perfect hairdo and make-up, even if a practice started at 6 am, and Gabby couldn't find any joy in doing this, and didn't think it fair to have to get up in the middle of the night to do her face and hair even for competitions, wondering why she couldn't be like Tessa. She said it would be nice to have a stylist to do these things. There is an episode where Madi (Hubbell) does her make-up. Madi seems to take it in a stride, like many women do, some can't even imagine leaving home without a makeup, but Gabby didn't. It's a sexist sport in a lot of ways. One of them is that a man can wear anything they like except maybe flesh-coloured nylon tights (actually I am not sure if rules forbid it, but no-one does): a frilly blouse, a corset, or a flannel shirt+jeans, but a woman has to look like a woman, dress like a woman, act like a woman, be made-up like a woman. Not all women find this pleasant or interesting, for some it's downright burdensome. If you look at how she walks, what she wears off-ice, her current hairdo, it tells a lot about her personality. Given that in childhood she did a lot of her mom's bidding without receiving a lot of motherly support, and looking at other girls who have no trouble being women, and her partner, who pretty much did what he wanted all his life (it's not his fault, it just happened that he actually wanted to skate much more than she did, and his parents said: sure, fine), it's easy to ask oneself what's wrong with one. I hope I am making sense. I actually think it's pretty normal to hope your competition falls. Even in music: Kalkbrenner offering Chopin 3-year apprenticeship and Elsner thinking he offered it out of envy and advising against it turned out correct. People thinking: this dude is too talented, if we let him he'll put us out of business, etc. Even in regular workplace people think this. I think, you focused on the wrong part of the story. But I am not going to read the book either, although for a different reason: I have a reading list already much bigger that my free time allows.
 
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One of them (figure skating's sexist rues and customs) is that a man can wear anything they like except maybe flesh-coloured nylon tights (actually I am not sure if rules forbid it, but no-one does): a frilly blouse, a corset, or a flannel shirt+jeans,
Here's Keegan Messing in his iconic flannel shirt+jeans skating outfit (designer Mathieu Caron). :)

 
Here's Keegan Messing in his iconic flannel shirt+jeans skating outfit (designer Mathieu Caron). :)

I can't see the picture, but I thought of him, yes. A woman-accountant, a woman-scientist, a IT woman can wear a flannel shirt and jeans at work, but a woman-figure skater can't, and this is not because of safety reasons, etc. There is no justification for it.
 
I can't see the picture, but I thought of him, yes. A woman-accountant, a woman-scientist, a IT woman can wear a flannel shirt and jeans at work, but a woman-figure skater can't, and this is not because of safety reasons, etc. There is no justification for it.
How many people sympathize with Gabby, and at the same time gush on this forum about costumes and beautiful dresses and flawless makeup and junk like that?

If you think the sport is sexist, then how about taking a break from making it so? I don't give a rip for costumes and hairdos and all that, and I've said so on here many times. I'm a feminist icon, who knew?
 
When Michelle Kwan first went on tour with Champions on ice at age 13 or 14 (so I read once, and I believe it to be true), her parents did not allow her to wear make-up. She snuck out with Oksana Baiul and Nancy Kerrigan and they showed her how to o it.

Here's Thomas Verner, 2014 Olympics. :)

 
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Maé-Bérénice Méité made headlines.

“This French figure skater may not have won a medal, but her pants took people's choice,” raved Yahoo! News, and AOL named Méité’s bodysuit to its list of “most dazzling figure skating outfits” of these Olympic Games.

If a woman wants to wear a flannel shirt - wear it. Don't pretend you can't. You can wear what you please. Don't like the color of the skates? Put colored covers over them. Orser did. Yuzu did. Oksana did.
It's a sexist sport in a lot of ways. One of them is that a man can wear anything they like except maybe flesh-coloured nylon tights

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As for ladies in pants, I think Irina Slutskaya was the modern pioneer. Here is her 2005 Short Program.


And her 2002 Olympic ex.

 
Both people have pants on. I don't watch Ice Dance but when one couple skated - it was magic. What a shame someone doesn't see it that way.

 
How many people sympathize with Gabby, and at the same time gush on this forum about costumes and beautiful dresses and flawless makeup and junk like that?

If you think the sport is sexist, then how about taking a break from making it so? I don't give a rip for costumes and hairdos and all that, and I've said so on here many times. I'm a feminist icon, who knew?
Many women actually like it. Some others don't and feel comfortable without. Figure skating has other attractions: expression of ideas through music and choreography, beauty of movement, why should we forgo it? I actually did take a break - had no time really for US and Can nationals, Euros and 4CC.
But what's wrong with a beautiful dress and make-up and hair touch-up so fine that it looks like it's not even there? I am not myself a fan of bright-red or purple lips, eye-lash extenders, multi-coloured (or multi-striped) hair, and tons of sequins but other women like them on themselves and others. There is no need be so maximalist here as anywhere.
I didn't know that she was uncomfortable with a lot this stuff. I am a person would definitely routinely prefer a couple hours of sleep to beauty, but perhaps sacrifice a couple hours of sleep for reading, and yes, I do wonder, if a person works hard all day, isn't it fair to have the right to read and do other enjoyable and necessary stuff in their spare time instead of paint their face and do their hair? But she didn't choose figure skating, her mom did it for her. Maybe she shouldn't have skated. When I watched PC something often didn't feel right. Unlike many people I am actually not a fan of Faure FD, as well as most of the their work after Mozart, which I think was a break-through FD. I think, their coaches did some better FD for other teams over past years. People say: look, it's just two people dancing, it's atmospheric, it's not M and W, not love or relationship, really? Have you looked at the choreo, at the holds, at the mimics? OTOH, if a person doesn't feel comfortable in this image, and it's not herself she is skating, perhaps it shouldn't feel quite comfortable. I don't know. It's just my opinion, I don't impose it on anyone. I just think with all the talk about tolerance and acceptance, it's still often hard for a woman to be herself, to express herself, that's I think a big message of the movie (again, I haven't read the book). I am not even touching the question of women being physically more vulnerable than men, and when one speaks up, they encounter disbelief or her employers get letters of cease and desist. It's OK to make a statement about one's disagreement with the other's writings, but those letters, I am not sure how necessary it was.
Both people have pants on. I don't watch Ice Dance but when one couple skated - it was magic. What a shame someone doesn't see it that way.

She has sheer pants on, through which you can see underpants. This is a swimsuit + a sarong-pants (not sure the name), would you really wear this to an office? And LL skated Roses FD in the same season, which is about my favourite FD of that season. Interesting.
 
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I read the book, and it's a poignant and powerful testimony. Gabriella denounces an entire system in which men hold the power. She talks about her career, what she went through, the traumas she suffered, and yes, she talks about Cizeron (she did skate with him for 20 years, after all), but that's not the subject of the book. It's not an attack on him; it's a denunciation of this system in which she experienced the worst. And Cizeron is part of the system... she's not defaming anyone.
But Cizeron decided it was an attack on him, even before the book came out. He decided he had to discredit her, silence her, and for that, nothing beats a threat of a defamation lawsuit (Gabi confirmed the day before yesterday in an interview that there was no complaint). And of course, Gabi lost her job (even though NBC had no problem with her commentating on the final, and they had read the book), and she's the one being heavily criticized: Cizeron is a hero, she must be lying. French journalists are joining in this lynching: live during the European Championships, they reminded everyone how good a person Cizeron is and how difficult it must be with the storm surrounding the "bouquin" (a pejorative term for the book).
Everything revolves around him.
As for the book's release date, Cizeron was surprised; he knows very well that she didn't choose it. Journalists know perfectly well that a novice author (unknown in the literary world) doesn't choose the release date of their book with a major publishing house... The fact that she signed her contract well before the formation of FB/C is a detail (but yes, in Cizeron's world, she should have given up her projects since he was coming back).
In her book, she mentions two rapes, one of which was committed by a coach who is allegedly still active... the French federation, which is supposedly obligated to report these incident, has remained remarkably silent. Not a word of support (yes, they only said they have to "protect" Cizeron). It's been 15 days since the book was released, and nothing. They don't care about what she's denouncing. However, FB/C's repeated public support for Sorensen doesn't pose any problem for them (the fight against sexual violence is supposed to be their priority)...

https://fs-gossips.com/15362/
 
I just want to add a general consideration: whenever an insider denounces or points out any problematic issues that are endemic to a system, they are labeled as “jealous wannabes” if they didn't reach the top in their sports or artistic career, or “ungrateful”, “biting the hand that fed them” “desperate for attention”, if they actually made it big, before realising that they succeeded not thanks to the bad things inflicted to them, but despite them. As if growing up within a system where something is normalised wouldn't make it difficult for anybody to question it right away. So, who is qualified to expose certain issues? Better sweep it all under the rug.
Gabriella's case is, obviously, the latter. From the book excerpts I’ve read, it's clear that she doesn't target Guillaume specifically, but the system as a whole. She tried to “play by the rules” in order to achieve her goals, and then she tried to question the rules themselves, which obviously wasn't deemed acceptable.

Another thing: it's perfectly legitimate to appreciate somebody's skills in spite of personal antipathies. So, why all the force-fed PR about Laurence and Guillaume? If their situation is not a problem, why the need to spin it in a more marketable way? They're free to associate and to skate together, and they're remarkably good at it. No need to paint them (or Sørensen) as victims of slander.
If Gabriella was to be erased from the picture, let's just ignore her point of view, instead of trying to silence her.
 
As for the book's release date, Cizeron was surprised; he knows very well that she didn't choose it. Journalists know perfectly well that a novice author (unknown in the literary world) doesn't choose the release date of their book with a major publishing house... The fact that she signed her contract well before the formation of FB/C is a detail (but yes, in Cizeron's world, she should have given up her projects since he was coming back).
In her book, she mentions two rapes, one of which was committed by a coach who is allegedly still active... the French federation, which is supposedly obligated to report these incident, has remained remarkably silent. Not a word of support (yes, they only said they have to "protect" Cizeron). It's been 15 days since the book was released, and nothing. They don't care about what she's denouncing. However, FB/C's repeated public support for Sorensen doesn't pose any problem for them (the fight against sexual violence is supposed to be their priority)...

https://fs-gossips.com/15362/
Her book was released just before the biggest competitions for the exact same reasons Christmas movies come out right after Thanksgiving.

That's when consumers are most likely to be the most interested in the product. It's not a conspiracy of some sort. It's calendar-driven economics.
 
I am not myself a fan of bright-red or purple lips, eye-lash extenders, multi-coloured (or multi-striped) hair, and tons of sequins but other women like them on themselves and others.
There is also the "stage make-up" aspect. Traditionally, stage make-up had to be so outrageous that it could be seen from the back row of the balcony. For TV close-ups it can look like clown make-up -- but then again, some people like to be as far out and avant-garde as possible.
She [Papakakis in the "Roses" performance] has sheer pants on, through which you can see underpants. This is a swimsuit + a sarong-pants (not sure the name), would you really wear this to an office?
I don't know about the office, but for a dance performance I think the outfits (for both partners) are stunning, as was the performance. The matching/contrasting grey and black top and bottom was quite effective aesthetically, in my opinion.
 
She has sheer pants on, through which you can see underpants. This is a swimsuit + a sarong-pants (not sure the name), would you really wear this to an office? And LL skated Roses FD in the same season, which is about my favourite FD of that season. Interesting.

I didn't post about clothing one would wear to an office, I was posting about what one would/could wear in figure skating. That aside, isn't that music fantastic? I discovered it only last night along with the video of them skating. I must have replayed it 5 times already.
 
I read the book, and it's a poignant and powerful testimony. Gabriella denounces an entire system in which men hold the power. She talks about her career, what she went through, the traumas she suffered, and yes, she talks about Cizeron (she did skate with him for 20 years, after all), but that's not the subject of the book. It's not an attack on him; it's a denunciation of this system in which she experienced the worst. And Cizeron is part of the system... she's not defaming anyone.
But Cizeron decided it was an attack on him, even before the book came out. He decided he had to discredit her, silence her, and for that, nothing beats a threat of a defamation lawsuit (Gabi confirmed the day before yesterday in an interview that there was no complaint). And of course, Gabi lost her job (even though NBC had no problem with her commentating on the final, and they had read the book), and she's the one being heavily criticized: Cizeron is a hero, she must be lying. French journalists are joining in this lynching: live during the European Championships, they reminded everyone how good a person Cizeron is and how difficult it must be with the storm surrounding the "bouquin" (a pejorative term for the book).
Everything revolves around him.
As for the book's release date, Cizeron was surprised; he knows very well that she didn't choose it. Journalists know perfectly well that a novice author (unknown in the literary world) doesn't choose the release date of their book with a major publishing house... The fact that she signed her contract well before the formation of FB/C is a detail (but yes, in Cizeron's world, she should have given up her projects since he was coming back).
In her book, she mentions two rapes, one of which was committed by a coach who is allegedly still active... the French federation, which is supposedly obligated to report these incident, has remained remarkably silent. Not a word of support (yes, they only said they have to "protect" Cizeron). It's been 15 days since the book was released, and nothing. They don't care about what she's denouncing. However, FB/C's repeated public support for Sorensen doesn't pose any problem for them (the fight against sexual violence is supposed to be their priority)...

https://fs-gossips.com/15362/
Thank you for this. I hope we have access to the English version soon. Cizeron, reacted the way he did because of his own guilty conscience and his need to silence and discredit her. But he is a talented man so he will be supported at all costs. That's it. The world gives evidence of the system described in the book. Many could have written volumes before, but they knew this would meet them.
 
And if the amount of sexual assault in my country is determined only by those reported to the authorities, we are in trouble. Big trouble.

Although since my country is not France, what this has to do with a French person writing a book published in France about her own experiences, is less clear.
For your information on the "general picture" in France, not specifically about the book which I haven't read yet.
90% of the rape declarations in France, end "correctionalised" into mere sexual assault or the like (in France, rape is what we call legally a crime so it has to be judged in a Cour d'Assises with a citizen jury; whereas a sexual assault, such as groping or a forced kiss or harassment, is a délit which is judged by a Tribunal Correctionnel by a professional judge, meaning in general less means of investigation), even when there is the most compelling proof that it really was a rape, sometimes even when the victim was 13 or 11, abducted, and all ("she's a Gipsy, you know that's how they do", for a case I have in mind; "he's from a country where they don't know how bad it is" for another — oh yes they know pretty well, better than a French judge) (I know that you have a Supreme Court judge who, asked why, when at a criminal court, they had acquitted the 18-year-old violent rapist of an 8-year-old, answered that it was "love between peers", so I'm sure that this sort of spiteful answer mustn't surprise you). Rather often, Police is good, helpful and humane to victims and orient them to staff who received a specific formation; but in the end of the trial there's a very slight sentence, and the perpetrator is even likely to have it removed from their judicial records, except those accessible only by judges. And in some cases too, they won't even accept to take the claim, that's why some organisations consider that 90% of the rapes aren't declared at all, while others think that it's 2/3; 2/3 comes from something called surveys, @Arigato and even in a survey, some victims prefer not to turn the knife in the wound and not mention the assault they've been victim of, particularly out of fear of being asked details by a stranger, or simply have buried it deep — but it still hurts. Of course, there are also false declarations of rape and they are on the rise (more often false declarations of assault; or, not false reports, but reporting as a rape attempt, which is a crime with a longer status of limitations, a real sexual assault with clearly no intention of rape when it's reported "too late", I've seen it twice, but then these victims don't report a rape), but they remain very marginal.

It's only in 2020 that Sarah Abitbol's book revealing that she had been abused at 15 by a coach (dead in 2023), prompted a bit of "cleaning" among predator coaches (rather supportive of the Gailhaguet system on the French Federation) but a bit only (I would say, a bit like Gracie Gold's book). The abuse Gabriella Papadakis has been victim of, had occurred (8?) years before and I can suppose that she had good reason to believe that even after 2020, reporting would have had no other effect than against her, because it seems that little had changed at the Federation.
 
The french federation is normally obligated to report the rape (as soon as it becomes aware of it) and to open an internal investigation... but there's been radio silence on this matter. The same goes for associations that have signed a partnership with the federation regarding the fight against violence... no public support or statement...
The FFSG simply said that it had to protect Cizeron, and the president of the Olympic Committee declared that Cizeron was right to threaten her with defamation and that he shouldn't be destabilized...
So much for protecting victims...
 
The french federation is normally obligated to report the rape (as soon as it becomes aware of it) and to open an internal investigation... but there's been radio silence on this matter. The same goes for associations that have signed a partnership with the federation regarding the fight against violence... no public support or statement...
The FFSG simply said that it had to protect Cizeron, and the president of the Olympic Committee declared that Cizeron was right to threaten her with defamation and that he shouldn't be destabilized...
So much for protecting victims...
Merci, not the most joyful subject as I head back into the fandom before the Olympics but very necessary. I hope for positive change.
 
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