Johnny and the quad

[psycho]

What success?:scratch: Johnny has not won anything ..........
Already I know that you will say to me that has 3 nats, but it does not have too much importance. I understand who wins Nat has prestige in the USA, But if we speak about championships it it is an insignificance

He is also a 2001 world junior champion, and he won 2 Grand Prix events. And it's really a moot point to argue what's significant and what counts as success, because if we start dismissing events as "insignificant", well, someone can say the same about worlds, or Europeans or 4CC. Many people consider 3 US titles in a row significant, some don't. Whatever.

But I do agree with whoever said that if Johnny no longer wants to compete, he doesn't need any more medals. He would have a fabulous pro career already because he is such as great exhibition skater. Same can be said for Sandhu, Cohen and maybe even Alyssa Czisny.

 

[calica]

because if we start dismissing events as "insignificant", well, someone can say the same about worlds, or Europeans or 4CC. Many people consider 3 US titles in a row significant, some don't.

Excuse me but the importance of the competitions does not reside in subjectivities. The world championship is the most important thing, so much if the people consider it as well as if not.
The grand prix, 4CC, Euro they are really important ......... but a few nats only are a pure step to world , where there are generally one or two really good skaters, and the rest they are mediocre (I do not say bad, but not competitive skater) Probably nat seems to some to be more important 3, but it is simply because:
a-.Johnny has not won anything any more. I am sure of the fact that if Johnny was win the world one, nobody would remember the nat, they all would start by speaking about the champion of the world
OR

The television coverage, boring of not having the wished shared because any american wins for any more than 10 years, feeds the rivalry, and gives more importance of the necessary one to this event

 

[dlarry1]

I believe your own "subjectivities" are rearing their ugly head here. Do you really mean to say that 4CC are more important than US nationals? T0 a US skater? You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but not to force that opinion on Johnny. God forbid we'd let him live his own life...

 

[Mathman]

No, I'm sorry, Calica, but I have to say that the world figure skating championship has no objective importance whatever.

Its only importance is what it may mean subjectively to the competitors and fans.

Different strokes for different folks. Some people care who won the World Series last year, some don't.

All I know is, the Detroit Tigers were robbed! .

 

[blue dog]

Excuse me but the importance of the competitions does not reside in subjectivities. The world championship is the most important thing, so much if the people consider it as well as if not.
The grand prix, 4CC, Euro they are really important ......... but a few nats only are a pure step to world , where there are generally one or two really good skaters, and the rest they are mediocre (I do not say bad, but not competitive skater) Probably nat seems to some to be more important 3, but it is simply because:
a-.Johnny has not won anything any more. I am sure of the fact that if Johnny was win the world one, nobody would remember the nat, they all would start by speaking about the champion of the world
OR

The television coverage, boring of not having the wished shared because any american wins for any more than 10 years, feeds the rivalry, and gives more importance of the necessary one to this event

satorare/rutinia/calica, would you please just stop changing your name for once? it's making it difficult to ignore you. if you're going to change your name, at least change your posting style so that we can readily believe that you're a new person.

that being said, depending on the nation and discipline, the national championships can be TOUGHER than the world championships--

look at japanese and american ladies--both countries can only send three skaters, and both countries have a lot of depth. you can BET that the national title in those countries in that discipline means a helluva lot.

or, a discipline you don't watch...look at the us and canada in dance. again, similar situation, with MANY talented couples that may not even make the final flight, but could easily crack the top fifteen at worlds.

but MM is right. different strokes for different folks--to some people, figure skating doesn't even matter, and that's fine.

 

[calica]

I believe your own "subjectivities" are rearing their ugly head here. Do you really mean to say that 4CC are more important than US nationals? T0 a US skater? You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but not to force that opinion on Johnny. God forbid we'd let him live his own life...

First of all, I do not force anybody to share my opinion because each one is free, although if I would like a little respect towards me, because I have not seen him fixing a message as this one when any of them have said that Jonnhy is wonderful
Secondly, nothing of subjectivity, I think the most important thing what it is difficult to win more. In the world are the best of the world. In the Europeans, the best of Europe (and for 10 years of the world also), them 4CC they were created so that American, Canadian and Asian they were taking part therefore there will be major level that in a few nat, you like or not.It is true that it has been devaluated (4CC) because lately it does not send the best to take part, but nevertheless it has major level than a few nat.
Really it is very entertaining to think that there are the people who can give him so much importance to a competition like that, which is only a step for more important competitions. I suppose that for Johnny it will be important, and I am glad for him, but it should of centring on more important challenges
And of course, it is necessary that it does a quad in competition because if not it will never come to the podium

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

calica - Success is not measured in medals. Success is a personal matter. There are skaters who just want an Oly podium medal; some just want to be in the Olys. Similarly, others are happy in Worlds. There are skaters who just won a Pewter in their respective Nationals. That's a memory for them. Don't take it away. That's cruel to kill someone else's dream. I hope you have success in your life.

Johnny, btw may become a successful entrepeneur in Fashion. Let him be,please.

Joe

 

[calica]

For Mathman, I am speaking about competitions of skating, because it is a sport.
Certainly is it more but then why that we debate if Johnny needs a quad?? That he does the same thing that now, and the fans to whom they are not interested in the world ones and the competition were encouraging him equally
For Blue Dog, hi i´m calica !! and in all the forums of skating, do not know exactly about that other persons that you speaks to me, but if you says it for my style of writing, I will say to that it is not my responsibility but of the translator on line, because I do not speak English:agree:
For Joesitz, I do not refer to successes in the life, it is intangible. But in sports, any person who has winner's mentality will want to compete the possible better) thing and to win. Certainly, Johnny is free to feel as wish but I believe that he must not feel so successful when he looks for new forms to win. I hope that he obtains the quad and a podium

 

[dlarry1]

First of all, I do not force anybody to share my opinion because each one is free, although if I would like a little respect towards me, because I have not seen him fixing a message as this one when any of them have said that Jonnhy is wonderful

Not quite sure what this means, but I do respect and appreciate your attempt to keep an open mind. Whom do you mean by "him?"

Secondly, nothing of subjectivity, I think the most important thing what it is difficult to win more. In the world are the best of the world. In the Europeans, the best of Europe (and for 10 years of the world also),

And you are certainly entitled to whatever you want to think. You know, you had me 100% until you had to throw in that dig about the best of the world only being at Europeans. Comparisons between European results and Worlds results would beg to differ.

them 4CC they were created so that American, Canadian and Asian they were taking part therefore there will be major level that in a few nat, you like or not.It is true that it has been devaluated (4CC) because lately it does not send the best to take part, but nevertheless it has major level than a few nat.

But not Johnny's nats, and he's said as much many times.

Really it is very entertaining to think that there are the people who can give him so much importance to a competition like that, which is only a step for more important competitions. I suppose that for Johnny it will be important, and I am glad for him, but it should of centring on more important challenges

You know, maybe if you'd throw in a "just my opinion" or "in my mind" every once in awhile, you wouldn't provoke such angry responses. If that's what you are trying to do, you are REALLY good at it. Is there a nationals for ticking people off? If so, get thee to it.
NONE of us has the right to tell Johnny what he should or shouldn't do, be, or think. Heck, I'm not even much of a Johnny fan, but I'll defend him to the death against narrow-mindedness...

And of course, it is necessary that it does a quad in competition because if not it will never come to the podium

And to this point I will gladly agree!! See, we CAN meet in the middle sometimes!

 

[Mathman]

Hey, Cal, your English is fine (way better than an on-line translator's, LOL). :agree:

This question of whether national competitions amount to anything is one that European and American fans never agree on.

U.S. fans like to follow the progress of thier favorites through the qualifying competitions, regionals and sectionals, and then , for the winners -- on to the Big Show, U.S. Nationals! Ta da!

The excitement of the national tournament is augmented by television and newpaper coverage. If you have a good local newspaper, they will run feature articles on local competitions and on the progress of local skaters.

For next year, the only two figure skating events that will be shown on national major network TV are Skate America and U.S. Nationals. The Grand Prix events are shown, if at all, late night on cable two weeks after the fact. It is up in the air whether there will be any television coverage of Worlds at all.

As for Europeans, we are lucky if we get a single line in the newpapers: "Frenchman and Italienne win skating contest."

So you can see why there is a difference of opinion about it.

 

[calica]

Excuse me , again
For Dlarry1: "him" It does not mean anything, is the translator on line

"Comparisons between European results and Worlds results would beg to differ."

The world champions in the last 10 years are European, and a great part of the medalists also

Certainly, they are my personal opinions but apart from the fact that the Englishman is not my language (certainly it is my fault) is very troublesome to repeat constant the same phrases, I do not see because I have to do it, have not said not badly at all, neither I try to convince anybody, have given my opinion. If i had said that Jonnhy is fantastic, and that the nat is the competition more s important of world, Somebody had requested to me that clarified my opinions?

For Mathman, The nat is a step for a world.
Someone has commented for example that the japanesenat Jis very interesting because there are good many skaters and only 3 place, but the important thing in yes not in winning (that also it is) but to qualify for the world ones

 

[Mathman]

... but the important thing in yes not in winning (that also it is) but to qualify for the world ones

That is my whole point. You have stated the prevalent European view.

In other parts of the world, one encounters different opinions.

The world champions in the last 10 years are European, and a great part of the medalists also.

You are talking about men's skating, right?

Yes, I will have to say that men's skating by and large remains a European sport.

But in ladies, maybe not so much. In seven of the last 12 years, U.S. Nationals also determined the World Championship.

 

[dlarry1]

I came to the same conclusion about Euros vs. Worlds, that is that you were speaking of men's skating. I went back to the numbers and you are indeed correct. I guess I think of Ladies first. Although admittedly, you are more than likely right about pairs and dance as well!

 

[calica]

Yes , I was speaking about masculine skating of course, because this thread is about Johnny. Have not I been clear?:scratch: Sorry, I was thinking that I had explained well

 

[antmanb]

That is my whole point. You have stated the prevalent European view.

In other parts of the world, one encounters different opinions.You are talking about men's skating, right?

Yes, I will have to say that men's skating by and large remains a European sport.

But in ladies, maybe not so much. In seven of the last 12 years, U.S. Nationals also determined the World Championship.

I may be the exception to the prevalent European view but nationals has to be a big competition for any skater taking part even if it is just a "stepping stone" to Europeans/4CC and worlds surely. Nationals is the competition that gives you your national ranking. Taking the UK as an example - it will mark the end of the season for all but the winners in each discipline, plus the silver in dance (and maybe even for the winners of some they won't even get to go).

The skaters work hard to get to nationals and to perform infront of the most important officials in the country and the fans, at one of the two best rinks in the country. For most of the entrants that's the end of a season of lots of hard work, for a lucky few the season continues. How can that not be important?

Ant

 

[Mafke]

I may be the exception to the prevalent European view but nationals has to be a big competition for any skater taking part even if it is just a "stepping stone" to Europeans/4CC and worlds surely. ....How can that not be important?

Of course nationals are very important for the skaters involved, especially for the lower ranked ones (and incredibly important for the development of the discipline in those countries), but in the _international_ big scheme of things, European national championships aren't such a big deal, mostly because the fields are generally not so deep (it's a pretty steep decline from Lambiel and Meier to the Swiss silver medalists). The one possible exception to that would be Russia, but since the Russian federation doesn't necessarily base assignments on its championships, they lack the combination of deep field and do-or-die stakes that make US nationals interesting. In all the world, I can think of only four countries that have important nationals (by important, I mean have deep fields and "receive international attention": US, Canada, Russia and Japan (this last in singles only).

Besides being the largest market for skating, US nationals are also of interest because in addition to the stress (more than one noted US skater has claimed that US nats are the single most nerve wracking competition in the year) many times, it's also provided amazing performances that surpass those produced by the same skaters at worlds and olys. I don't know how often that happens elsewhere.

 

[Jaana]

Besides being the largest market for skating, US nationals are also of interest because in addition to the stress (more than one noted US skater has claimed that US nats are the single most nerve wracking competition in the year) many times, it's also provided amazing performances that surpass those produced by the same skaters at worlds and olys. I don't know how often that happens elsewhere.

Although it of course is great for the audience I would not see that as a plus, quite the contrary... It is a great pity if a skater skates her/his best performance of the season at the US Nationals and loses e.g. an Olympic or World gold medal because of a lesser performance. Timing has not been right...

 

[Mathman]

...It is a great pity if a skater skates her/his best performance of the season at the US Nationals and loses e.g. an Olympic or World gold medal because of a lesser performance.

I am sure that every performer would like to skate great when it comes to the world or Olympic championship. Unfortunately, there is no way to guarantee that, no matter how well or poorly a skater performs at nationals.

I don't think any skater goes into nationals with the plan, I will hold back today, maybe fall a couple of times. Then when I get to worlds I will skate much better.

On the contrary, the only possible mind set for an athlete is to give his/her best every time out.

 

[Mafke]

On the one hand, it's too bad for the skater's overall international record if their best performance all season happens at nationals.
On the other hand, with the big jumps (that no skater can guarantee 100 % of the time) counting for so much, skating anymore is a much more up-and-down discipline, with much more yo-yoing in the rankings. Sometimes it all comes together and sometimes it doesn't and a certain amount of that just can't be predicted in advance. So when it does all come together, it's great, no matter the competition.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I really think skaters know at an early point in their competitive careers where they are headed. If they do not see a medal at the end of the dream, they still may have the love of skating and see competition as fun just as much as guys play Golf on a Saturday afternoon. None will ever be a champion Golf player, but it is fun. So lower tier skaters may enjoy the fervor of competitions without expectation (except in dreams) of winning a medal.

There are skaters who are extremely motivated to win competitions and they have a lot of natural talent, time, and money to pursue their dreams. I also think we are discussing the 'Last Six to Skate' skaters.

Adult Skaters are in a good position for all of the above.

Joe