Judging Critiques/Continuation of Plushenko’s Allegations

[Scott512]

Oh of course...when other skaters win by huge margins like Anna and Kamila it's clearly because of their superior skating. They ALWAYS deserve their huge scores...in fact they should be scored more!

Plushy just got lucky... constantly... I don't even know how he got out of novices honestly, the hack.

Come on stop that. Plushy one of the goats he was the goat before Yuzu. But it's not an exaggeration to say he was overscored from time to time just like some of the top ladies these days and 10 years ago and 20 years ago. We know all elite skaters in August the planes get over scored from time to time. It's just the way it is. Yes EG skaters get scored higher than they should from time to time.. You happy I said it?

Red army skaters got scored higher than they should from time to time. Michelle and Tara too.

Now that red army has a couple of super promising sirls coming up they're going to get higher than deserved scores from time to time and you won't hear EG say a dam thing about it.

Without KV Maya and Dasha at junior nationals its no guarantee that TT's Sofia will beat CSKA Sofia. But if Eteris girl does not win and even if she deserved to you won't hear a word come from her mouth.

Plushy was a goat skater in his time without question but hes just beginning his coaching career in the last few years he does not have the stature of the other great Russian coaches.

I do not want to have 3 or 4 coaches complaining at the same time.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Come on stop that.

No, I won't. Not when people on here act like Plushy used to go out on the ice perform one quad, wave his arms in the air and then demand a gold medal.

If I've learnt anything from gathering links to his programs it's the power of commentary to colour perception.

The NBC Commentary of Plushy's Vancouver skate is one of the most horrible things I've ever heard. It's 4.5 solid minutes of Sandra Bezic trashing Plushenko. Utterly no respect is shown. I can't believe they even got away with talking that way. It's like she thought he was some hobo who was just wandering passed the arena and somehow ended up on the ice.

My one shining memory of NBC Commentary is when in the Gala Plushy came out and skated that glorious, emotional exhibition and shut her up.

If I was a new fan who knew nothing about Plushenko and relied on this board for information about him I'd think he was the crappiest skater that ever lived and an even crappier human being and would regret Zheleznyakov didn't get around to smashing his face in.

 

[Alex65]

...

I do not want to have 3 or 4 coaches complaining at the same time.

Why don't you want this? Do you think they have nothing to say? Let everyone who has something to say speak. I hope that Plushenko will still manage to break this vicious circle of silence and mutual responsibility. Ha) I remember Commissar Catani and the Sicilian Cosa Nostra.

 

[sinus]

In his last interview Plushenko said Lukin "fell on his butt". He didn't. Plushenko's skater did.
Also Plushenko said Shcherbakova "got 3 points bonus for her bad spin at RusNats". She didn't.

Lukin didn't fall (let alone "on his butt") and it's not mandatory for him or any other skater to get all GOE -5 in this situataion.

Spoiler: For example

 

[anonymoose_au]

Lukin didn't fall and it's not mandatory for him or any other skater to get all GOE -5 in this situataion.

Sure it's not mandatory, yet somehow some skaters who do that get the full -5 and some don't.

And are they seriously saying that falling on your hands is not a fall now? That's BS.

Mark may not have "fallen on his butt", but he almost fell on his face.

The point is...when is a fall not a fall? When the judging panel decides it's not. And once again the decision seems to be tied very closely to who's considered a top skater.

I bet if some no-name skater from Australia did what Mark did it'd be -5 across the board, and probably a 1 point fall deduction as a bonus!

 

[Anoosheh]

The NBC Commentary of Plushy's Vancouver skate is one of the most horrible things I've ever heard. It's 4.5 solid minutes of Sandra Bezic trashing Plushenko. Utterly no respect is shown. I can't believe they even got away with talking that way. It's like she thought he was some hobo who was just wandering passed the arena and somehow ended up on the ice.

That woman is obsessed with Evan Lysacek.
Even during the OG 2006 she had the audacity to say that the performance of the night was Evan Lysacek's!!
Aside from Plushenko, Jeff Buttle and Stephan Lambiel also skated that night. But yea Evan was better than all of them...!

 

[anonymoose_au]

That woman is obsessed with Evan Lysacek.
Even during the OG 2006 she had the audacity to say that the performance of the night was Evan Lysacek's!!
Aside from Plushenko, Jeff Buttle and Stephan Lambiel also skated that night. But yea Evan was better than all of them...

But who knows that? I didn't. And I tend to assume that commentators have knowledge and professionalism. I don't expect them to let their admiration of one skater colour their commentary of another to that extent. Someone should have had a few words with her.

Don't get me started on NBC's commentary in 2006. It's almost ridiculous how much they trashed Plushenko in that and then right at the end were like "But he's a great skater though." Yeah sure, he can't spin, his step sequences are a complete mess and he doesn't have a program, but hey he still deserved this win. It wasn't just offensive to Plushy, but to everyone else competing, I wonder how they felt losing to someone with no program.

At least Sandra had the guts to stick to her guns about just how much Plushy sucked in Vancouver, I can almost respect her for that.

 

[sinus]

Sure it's not mandatory, yet somehow some skaters who do that get the full -5 and some don't.

At Rostelecom Cup FS Trusova got -5 -5 -4 -5 -3 -4 -5 for her first fall and all -5 for the second fall. It depends on the fall.

And are they seriously saying that falling on your hands is not a fall now? That's BS.

It's for tech panel to decide. I gave you the example how Chen with both hands on ice got GOE from -1 to -4 with no deduction.

Anyway, Plushenko lied at least twice in his last interview. There was no any "butt", there was no any "bonus".

 

[anonymoose_au]

there was no any "bonus".

I completely disagree, Mark's PCS was absolutely massive for that program. 76? How much higher would it have been without the fall that's not a fall? He also popped a 1A and barely lost the FS to Kirill.

Are you seriously telling me with a straight face that if this was Sasha T winning like that there wouldn't be at least 50 pages of bitching about how quad jumps aren't everything and "Oooooo what about the artistry?! The artistry!?" This isn't even question, it has happened and posters have lost their minds over it.

Eteri doesn't need to complain because when her skaters get called the Russian Figure Skating Fed will go in and complain for her. Remember those edge calls Alina got in France? They made an official complaint to the ISU over it! I haven't seen anything like it before or since.

Posters here blast Plushy for always having an excuse for losing, but as far as most of you are concerned it seems there's always an excuse for Eteri's skaters to win. Their falls aren't as bad as other people's falls, their lack of 3As or quads (Daria U) can be made up by magnificent artistry. Whether their opponents try to out tech them (Sasha at Nats) or do a cleaner program (Kirill) there's always ALWAYS a reason why the Eteri skater is better.

I wish Plushy had never become a coach, total waste of his time.

 

[sinus]

I completely disagree, Mark's PCS was absolutely massive for that program.

Disagree with what? Mark has nothing to do with my words about "bonus". Plushenko said Shcherbakova "got 3 points bonus for her bad spin at RusNats". That's a lie. Second one.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Disagree with what? Mark has nothing to do with my words about "bonus". Plushenko said Shcherbakova "got 3 points bonus for her bad spin at RusNats". That's a lie. Second one.

I assume he meant that spin with the hugely wonky entry that somehow still only got -0.38 GOE?

I guess you're right he was lying about bonus points for it, but considering I've seen spins with such awful entries completely invalidated Anna got off easy with that one and she did get 2.30 points for it.

Once again I'm struck by the irony of everyone telling Plushy to get over it, where to this day people are ready to bring up the 50,086 times he got overscored from like nearly a decade ago at the drop of a hat. And this started looooong before he became a coach and complained about anything.

It's almost like there's different standards for skaters around here... mercy me, who would have thought.

 

[sinus]

I guess you're right he was lying

Finally.

 

[nussnacker]

Once again I'm struck by the irony of everyone telling Plushy to get over it, where to this day people are ready to bring up the 50,086 times he got overscored from like nearly a decade ago at the drop of a hat. And this started looooong before he became a coach and complained about anything.

I think you’re failing to recognize the irony here. Plushenko’s past and his current student’s scores are only brought up because it’s Plushenko who’s complaining non-stop. If someone else did that, like Davydov, people would bring up his or his students scores.
If he claims there’s not enough harshness to some skaters, he equally has to recognize he or his students been given a good amount of favorable judging as well.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I think you’re failing to recognize the irony here. Plushenko’s past and his current student’s scores are only brought up because it’s Plushenko who’s complaining non-stop.

Oh was I imagining all those posts I've read since I joined in 2014 - a full 3 years before the Academy was even a thing - about how Plushenko was the most overscored, overhyped skater in history and basically the worst Olympic champion ever - unless we count Adelina. I'm pretty sure I didn't, but feel free to tell me I can't trust my own eyes.

And who is anyone on this board to blast someone for complaining about judging. 90% of the content of this board is complaining about judging! Plushy would fit right in here, except of course since it's Plushy everything he says is automatically invalid.

Case in point, now that Sasha and Aliona are coached by him suddenly Sasha's quads are no longer an amazing achievement, but an embarrassment. And Aliona's once famed ability to make any program amazing has disappeared. And any success either of them have had this season? All Eteri's hard work. Any failures are entirely Plushy's doing. It's just like what happened to Zhenya Med when she left, except Brian O is a respected coach so mostly got off lightly.

It would be nice if all the people on this board who would declare it an International Day of Celebration if Plushy disappeared forever could declare themselves so I know who I should bother replying to.

 

[Scott512]

Why don't you want this? Do you think they have nothing to say? Let everyone who has something to say speak. I hope that Plushenko will still manage to break this vicious circle of silence and mutual responsibility. Ha) I remember Commissar Catani and the Sicilian Cosa Nostra.

How do you remember them?

I think I have the solution for domestic and International competitions and that is turn the judges over a 4 new judges every 5 or 6 years.

 

[Scott512]

Oh was I imagining all those posts I've read since I joined in 2014 - a full 3 years before the Academy was even a thing - about how Plushenko was the most overscored, overhyped skater in history and basically the worst Olympic champion ever - unless we count Adelina. I'm pretty sure I didn't, but feel free to tell me I can't trust my own eyes.

And who is anyone on this board to blast someone for complaining about judging. 90% of the content of this board is complaining about judging! Plushy would fit right in here, except of course since it's Plushy everything he says is automatically invalid.

Case in point, now that Sasha and Aliona are coached by him suddenly Sasha's quads are no longer an amazing achievement, but an embarrassment. And Aliona's once famed ability to make any program amazing has disappeared. And any success either of them have had this season? All Eteri's hard work. Any failures are entirely Plushy's doing. It's just like what happened to Zhenya Med when she left, except Brian O is a respected coach so mostly got off lightly.

It would be nice if all the people on this board who would declare it an International Day of Celebration if Plushy disappeared forever could declare themselves so I know who I should bother replying to.

Come on moose. I joined in 2014 and while there was criticism about Adelina I don't remember any about plushy. Before yuzu plushy was the G. All great skaters get over score from time to time in all disciplines.

I think the answer is to turn the judges over for new judges every 5 or 6 years domestically and in International competitoons. Some of the judges of been doing this for 15 or 20 years and I don't think that's a good idea.

I've had some beers with friends so I hope what I wrote was coherent.

 

[nussnacker]

I completely disagree, Mark's PCS was absolutely massive for that program. 76? How much higher would it have been without the fall that's not a fall? He also popped a 1A and barely lost the FS to Kirill.

Are you seriously telling me with a straight face that if this was Sasha T winning like that there wouldn't be at least 50 pages of bitching about how quad jumps aren't everything and "Oooooo what about the artistry?! The artistry!?" This isn't even question, it has happened and posters have lost their minds over it.

Eteri doesn't need to complain because when her skaters get called the Russian Figure Skating Fed will go in and complain for her. Remember those edge calls Alina got in France? They made an official complaint to the ISU over it! I haven't seen anything like it before or since.

Posters here blast Plushy for always having an excuse for losing, but as far as most of you are concerned it seems there's always an excuse for Eteri's skaters to win. Their falls aren't as bad as other people's falls, their lack of 3As or quads (Daria U) can be made up by magnificent artistry. Whether their opponents try to out tech them (Sasha at Nats) or do a cleaner program (Kirill) there's always ALWAYS a reason why the Eteri skater is better.

I wish Plushy had never become a coach, total waste of his time.

Completely disagree about Mark. He has way better SS than Sarnovsky, his choreo is more complex and intricate, he uses a lot more ice surface. Mark has been scoring higher PCS than Sarnovsky on multiple events prior, so PCS difference wasn’t out of line of what they both typically received.

Daria was rightfully 4th on that event, so I’m not sure what the question is about having or not having a 3A/quads, when she indeed lost precisely because she didn’t have those. She didn’t catch up or win over others, because of the significant lack of tech, so yes, it does play a role.

Being clean does not always equal to winning. Generally stronger skaters with less clean performances often win over weaker skaters with clean performances.
For example, Nugumanova was „clean“ at Rostelecom, but she still lost to Sasha who made a lot of mistakes across both programs. That is, because judges consider, and I personally agree with them on that, that Sasha still is a much stronger skater overall than Nugumanova, even with mistakes.
This happens quite often actually.
and Sarnovsky‘s performances can‘t really be called clean either.

There are also cases when skaters with the exact same tech content earned very different scores. For example Nika Zhilina lost 5 points to Sofia S. in the SP, despite both doing the same content and being clean. Where does this gap come from? Do we also need an „excuse“ for such cases? Why didn’t Plushenko complain? Oh wait, cause she’s not an Eteri student, that’s why.
But also because there are differences in quality of execution between Veronika and Sofia, and Sofia delivered a stronger skate overall, and she’s a stronger PCS skater.
Aliona K. on Stage 4 in SP with a step out of her combo and messed up spin still won over Sasha with rotated (with a step out) 3A and clean spins. What was the reason for that? Is there a need for an excuse for that or would you agree that Aliona is a stronger skater in SS and choreo, hence deserved to have better PCS?

All these little domestic competitions are unimportant in their lives, they mean nothing. If they don’t get a message on which areas they need to improve, they won’t improve and catch up with those who are better. Losing some random Moscow cup means nothing, but it would mean a lot, when they’ll have a PCS gap on international competitions with their international competitors, because their whole life they were persuaded that their scores should be higher, and ignored those areas of development.

 

[nussnacker]

Case in point, now that Sasha and Aliona are coached by him suddenly Sasha's quads are no longer an amazing achievement, but an embarrassment.

Can you show me who has ever wrote that? I’m legitimately curious.

 

[Scott512]

No, I won't. Not when people on here act like Plushy used to go out on the ice perform one quad, wave his arms in the air and then demand a gold medal.

If I've learnt anything from gathering links to his programs it's the power of commentary to colour perception.

The NBC Commentary of Plushy's Vancouver skate is one of the most horrible things I've ever heard. It's 4.5 solid minutes of Sandra Bezic trashing Plushenko. Utterly no respect is shown. I can't believe they even got away with talking that way. It's like she thought he was some hobo who was just wandering passed the arena and somehow ended up on the ice.

My one shining memory of NBC Commentary is when in the Gala Plushy came out and skated that glorious, emotional exhibition and shut her up.

If I was a new fan who knew nothing about Plushenko and relied on this board for information about him I'd think he was the crappiest skater that ever lived and an even crappier human being and would regret Zheleznyakov didn't get around to smashing his face in.

Nobody acts like that. Everyone knows plushy was the goat.. It was phenomenal I was athletic he was a showman.

I'll have to go back to listen to Sandra Bezic and NBC. After the pair's controversy in Salt Lake City in 2002 NBC when sort of anti-Russian. I think that carried over to plushy in Vancouver when they were tired of the Russians doing great in Olympic figure skating. I personally thought plus you should have one in Vancouver where the case can be made for both afflick's just like in many other olympics.

We will so you have to see how good of a coach Plushenko can be but he was the goat at 1 point in figure skating.

Pretty much agree with you moose about domestic competitions. I also think everyone's frustrated they can't have international competitions th his season.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Come on moose. I joined in 2014 and while there was criticism about Adelina I don't remember any about plushy. Before yuzu plushy was the G. All great skaters get over score from time to time in all disciplines.

Well I'm pretty sure if I was to name names I'd be in huge trouble, but what about those "Let's rescore the 2006/2010 Olympics" threads? Their very existence suggests that the outcome of those events were incorrect and need to be rescored.

Still never heard any skater get more nasty comments from professional English-speaking commentators on TV than Plushy has. The Canadians on CBC were downright vicious and of course there's Sandra who thought he was absolute trash. Dick claims he was a fan, but never tired of mocking Plushy's skating style like he was some sort of exhibit at a zoo. You don't have to be Ted Barton, but some respect would have been nice.

All in all I just get the overwhelming feeling that so many people want to see Plushy fail. These people probably applauded in glee when he had to withdraw from Sochi and got a good laugh out of the Russian media turning against him and calling him a traitor and national embarrassment.

For example, that Zheleznyakov nutcase basically threatened to beat Plushy up, the response here? A hearty laugh and call to pass the popcorn and televise it! Sure it was a joke, but all jokes contain a nugget of truth. If it had been anyone else in the FS world people would have been horrified. But in this case hey it's only Plushy, maybe Zheleznyakov will hit him so hard it'll break that ridiculous nose.

Aliona K. on Stage 4 in SP with a step out of her combo and messed up spin still won over Sasha with rotated (with a step out) 3A and clean spins. What was the reason for that?

PCS obviously...but seriously, can you imagine what would happen if Plushy tried to tackle the thorny issue of PCS? I know you all think he's an idiot, but even he's not brain-dead enough to try that one.

All these little domestic competitions are unimportant in their lives, they mean nothing.

What? Of course they do! You can't make the national team without good results there. Kirill's never had a JGP event and without results in domestic comps he never will. I think he has something really special, it breaks my heart to think he'll never get anywhere.

Can you show me who has ever wrote that?

I exaggerated, but there's definitely claims all over the place that Sasha is foolish for wanting to do 5 quad programs and how unfortunate for her that she went to the one idiot coach who would let her. Eteri would never be so stupid!

A two minute search of the Russian Ladies Thread will yield a mountain of comments of just how bad a coach Plushenko is (when he's not accused of being a fake coach of course, never forget he doesn't actually do anything) Here's some choice comments:

Post in thread '2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating' https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/2020-21-russian-ladies-figure-skating.85832/post-2609593

Post in thread '2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating' https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/2020-21-russian-ladies-figure-skating.85832/post-2609598

Post in thread '2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating' https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/2020-21-russian-ladies-figure-skating.85832/post-2609619

Or you can just pop into the Coaching Cauldron for all your Plushenko = Garbage needs!

Honestly I can't even blame him for not respecting the establishment...just this week Tatiana Tarasova said AGAIN that he's a fake coach.

I don't know about you, but I can tell you how I'd talk about the people who say that sort of BS about me. I'd make Plushy look like a paragon of restraint!

PS. For your viewing pleasure here's Sandra Bezic's (who's comments were beamed across the globe) 4.5 minute TED Talk on how Plushenko tried to single handedly destroy the great sport of figure skating

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/media/evgeni-plushenko-vancouver-olympics-2010-fs-nbc-commentary.11563/

Includes all the most common and well-loved complaints! The arm movements! The crappy choreography! Just a jumping machine! Didn't even bother to try! Arrogant! Arrange a drinking game, it's fun for the whole family.