Judging Critiques/Continuation of Plushenko’s Allegations

[nussnacker]

Your interpretation of the facts does not invalidate those facts. You cannot change the numbers (thank goodness). Are you surprised that Sasha's PCS at some point surpassed Anna and Alena's PCS? Do you question this and think that it is not possible in principle? I disagree. Three years ago it was all a little different. I'm not surprised that you don't find Anna's superiority over Alena in the PCS this season as something abnormal. Moreover, I am ready to listen to a thousand explanations why this is the way it should be. But how can your or my opinion change the state of things here and now? Or estimates three years ago?

It’s not an issue of interpretation.
It’s an issue of facts that are not full, and logic which is flawed as a result of that. By purposefully excluding or misrepresenting facts, you’re trying to mislead others, and you’ve done that on multiple occasions before too, I just tend not to react every single time it happens.

 

[Alex65]

It’s not an issue of interpretation.
It’s an issue of facts that are not full, and logic which is flawed as a result of that. By purposefully excluding or misrepresenting facts, you’re trying to mislead others, and you’ve done that on multiple occasions before too, I just tend not to react every single time it happens.

Let me say that it is you who are trying to get away from the essence of the discussion, turning to personalities and substituting concepts. Show me where I am wrong and where I gave the wrong numbers. This will serve as confirmation of your correctness in the dispute. Attaching labels will not serve as a constructive argument, although it is common in the RL theme.

 

[nussnacker]

Let me say that it is you who are trying to get away from the essence of the discussion, turning to personalities and substituting concepts. Show me where I am wrong and where I gave the wrong numbers. This will serve as confirmation of your correctness in the dispute. Attaching labels will not serve as a constructive argument, although it is common in the RL theme.

I’ve already done this here. Your fact is missing context, hence your whole argument becomes a different thing altogether.

At least another recent one, which I remember, is that you said Adelia received bonuses for her spins and you gave 2 examples of those, where she supposedly received bonuses, where in fact she only got bonus for one of those spins you gave as examples and complained about. So there’s another “exaggeration” it whatever you call it these days.

 

[Alex65]

I’ve already done this here. You’re fact is missing context, hence you’re whole argument becomes a different thing altogether.

At least another recent one, which I remember, is that you said Adelia received bonuses for her spins and you gave 2 examples of those, where she supposedly received bonuses, where in fact she only got bonus for one of those spins you gave as examples and complained about. So there’s another “exaggeration” it whatever you call it these days.

OK. Good example. I asked @Fluture for his opinion on these two Petrosyan spins, which he admired in his review. I brought up a video and expressed my doubt that these traveling spins deserved high points and bonuses. There was a discourse of several users on this issue. As usual in such cases, opinions varied. But no one accused me of bias. However, now you reproach me for being deliberately biased and distorting facts for the sake of my agenda. You literally just stated it bluntly. With the sole purpose, as far as I can tell, to discredit against me and my opinion. God will judge us. Let me just say that none of us is sinless and everyone can make mistakes at any time. Unlike you, I am happy to admit my mistakes, correct them and apologize if required. I apologize for the OT.

 

[nussnacker]

With the sole purpose, as far as I can tell, to discriminate against me and my opinion.

With the sole purpose of showing how the facts and arguments you present aren’t always full or truthful, that’s all.
Everyone can make mistakes, including me and everyone on the internet.
If calling you out on misrepresenting facts is “discrimination”, then I guess there’s nothing left to discuss.

and “unlike me?” lmao, okay xD down to kindergarten level

 

[Scott512]

With Anna and Kamila there? I think not.

Maybe I am going too far, but that's the feeling of get here, even the people who want Sasha and Aliona to do well want it in spite of Plushy. If Plushy could completely fail at being a coach and disappear without Sasha and Aliona being effected there'd be prayer circles for it to happen and on the most joyous day it did be declared a International Skating Holiday with a big party.

At which point figure skating will return to an idyll similar to this:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

International judging is never as favorable for the Russian Ladies as the domestic scores are. 3A knows this. So do their coaches.

Yes you are going too far about plushie. Some people do not like EG but adore her skaters the same can be true of Plushenko and his skaters.

 

[Scott512]

Not the Channel 1 people, but Zhenya Med and Alina are the team captains, if Aliona is on Zhenya's team she'll get to hear all about how returning to Crystal was the best decision Zhenya ever made (after all, no-one in Russia hates her anymore). If she's on Alina's team she'll learn about how Plushy tried to get Alina to join his Academy and how praise the Lord she was smart enough not to because look at all the wonderful successes she's had.

Sasha might be tempted too come to think of it, Zhenya Med is her idol and now she's back at Crystal.

Perhaps Aliona and Sasha can go in for the World's biggest bouquet of flowers and then the 3A will be together once more. It'd be the feel-good story of the year!

Yes. Zhenya and Alina will convince Super Sasha and Princess Aliona that Crystal is the place to be!

I bet EG along with the Fed combined to create this unusual team event to get her to bring her 2 phenoms back! But actually that probably didn't happen otherwise plushie would be making a point of it.

But it is a little intriguing as to why TT greats Zhenya and Alina are the captains. It knd of makes you go hmmmm.

A true team event would be Moscow skaters in all four disciplines against St Petersburg skaters in all four disciplines would have been something interesting to me.
Especially with every shiny yellow and Liza as team captains.

I don't know what to expect of this event but it doesn't really interest me at this point. Are the St. Petersburg skaters involved at all?

 

[Alex65]

With the sole purpose of showing how the facts and arguments you present aren’t always full or truthful, that’s all.
Everyone can make mistakes, including me and everyone on the internet.
If calling you out on misrepresenting facts is “discrimination”, then I guess there’s nothing left to discuss.

and “unlike me?” lmao, okay xD down to kindergarten level

If the distortion of the facts is that three years ago Sasha received a PCS score higher than Anna (and also higher than Alena, which I, I confess, did not mention, because I answered the message about Anna and Sasha) - you probably just need provide scores to refute me. Instead of all this blah blah blah. Do it here and now. What is the problem?

 

[nussnacker]

If the distortion of the facts is that three years ago Sasha received a PCS score higher than Anna (and also higher than Alena, which I, I confess, did not mention, because I answered the message about Anna and Sasha) - you probably just need provide scores to refute me. Instead of all this blah blah blah. Do it here and now. What is the problem?

Were you banned on Google? Look it up, mate

 

[Alex65]

Were you banned on Google? Look it up, mate

I had to spend five minutes of my time to find it on the ISU website.
Season 18/19 JGP. Score PCS SP + FP = Total
The first stage is Shcherbakova's debut - the results are not available on the website.
The second stage - Kostornaya 30.03 + 61.26 Total: 91.29
The third stage - Trusova 30.68 + 61.44 Total: 92.12
The fourth stage - Shcherbakova 29.81 + 59.62 Outcome: 89.42
The fifth stage - Kostornaya 30.77 + 60.92 Total: 91.69
Seventh stage - Trusova 30.01 + 61.54 Total: 91.55
Final JGP (common start for all three)
Kostornaya 32.89 + 67.29 Total: 100.18
Trusova 31.55 + 62.36 Total: 93.91
Shcherbakova 29.89 + 60.54 Total: 90.43
Can you explain to me the correlation between these numbers and your accusations against me?

 

[flanker]

Little technical note to this valuable conversation (once again I admire @nussnacker for patience). The results from Bratislava are available, it's just that there is an error in the link on ISU page, one has to delete first half of the link that should lead here:

ISU JGP Bratislava 2018

Event results for ISU JGP Bratislava 2018 2018.

www.isuresults.com

(Anna received 29.78+58.96)

 

[Anoosheh]

What's the problem? Is not it so? I simply answered the words of the user that Shcherbakova always excelled Trusova in the PCS.

I was strictly talking about last year scores. Because they both had the same status in the sport.

You can't bring scores from Sasha's second junior season (Anna's first), because Sasha was a veteran and Anna was a newcomer to the scene. We all know how newcomers are always lowballed in PCS. That's why it''s not fair to compare the PCS scores between a veteran and a newcomer.

 

[Alex65]

I was strictly talking about last year scores. Because they both had the same status in the sport.

You can't bring scores from Sasha's second junior season (Anna's first), because Sasha was a veteran and Anna was a newcomer to the scene. We all know how newcomers are always lowballed in PCS. That's why it''s not fair to compare the PCS scores between a veteran and a newcomer.

I did not compare. I just pointed out this fact in history. In addition, you did not indicate that you only mean last season. Why does this upset you ? It was a long time ago . Things are different now. It is not at all necessary to rewrite the past in order to enjoy today.

 

[flanker]

I was strictly talking about last year scores. Because they both had the same status in the sport.

You can't bring scores from Sasha's second junior season (Anna's first), because Sasha was a veteran and Anna was a newcomer to the scene. We all know how newcomers are always lowballed in PCS. That's why it''s not fair to compare the PCS scores between a veteran and a newcomer.

Just to support this Sasha's PCS at Brisbane, her very first international competition, was 26.11+56.50, and at Minsk 27.94+55.82 (where Stanislava Konstantinova received 28.40+58.46 as a veteran). At 2017 JGPF it was 30.29+59.64 as she gained reputation. Of course it can be also argued Sasha was a year younger and there was still old scoring system, but for illustration it gives some clue.

 

[Alex65]

With the sole purpose of showing how the facts and arguments you present aren’t always full or truthful, that’s all.
Everyone can make mistakes, including me and everyone on the internet.
If calling you out on misrepresenting facts is “discrimination”, then I guess there’s nothing left to discuss.

and “unlike me?” lmao, okay xD down to kindergarten level

Well. Your silence made me think how unpleasant your nickname was in your kindergarten , mate .

 

[Blades of Passion]

You don't have a flawed performance because of one lvl 2 spin. Those claims are getting more and more absurd. In such case many of Sasha's performances would have to be considered flawed because she's losing leves regularly and nowhere is written that with lvl 3 it is perfect and with lvl 2 it is flawed.

Again you've totally missed the point and are twisting facts. Shcherbakova's spin was not "just" level 2 because of some random quirk in the rules where she held a position for slightly less time than required or something; it was level 2 because she BLEW IT on her flying entrance and had an UGLY spin that lost speed and centering and positioning, factually making the program worse for that duration of time.

Why are you talking about other performances of Trusova's? ALL that matters is what happened in the Russian Nationals SP. That's it. At that competition, Trusova skated her best SP ever, better than Shcherbakova. Yet despite skating better, she was scored 5 points lower. It was a clear attack of totally incorrect judging bias.

 

[nussnacker]

I had to spend five minutes of my time to find it on the ISU website.
Season 18/19 JGP. Score PCS SP + FP = Total
The first stage is Shcherbakova's debut - the results are not available on the website.
The second stage - Kostornaya 30.03 + 61.26 Total: 91.29
The third stage - Trusova 30.68 + 61.44 Total: 92.12
The fourth stage - Shcherbakova 29.81 + 59.62 Outcome: 89.42
The fifth stage - Kostornaya 30.77 + 60.92 Total: 91.69
Seventh stage - Trusova 30.01 + 61.54 Total: 91.55
Final JGP (common start for all three)
Kostornaya 32.89 + 67.29 Total: 100.18
Trusova 31.55 + 62.36 Total: 93.91
Shcherbakova 29.89 + 60.54 Total: 90.43
Can you explain to me the correlation between these numbers and your accusations against me?

Sorry, I got busy for a couple of hours oh, Lord!

but anyway, thanks for going through the numbers, thankfully my memory did not fail me

as you yourself can see, on both of her events Sasha scored higher in PCS than Aliona in the free, and once she scored higher in SP too. That’s 3 out 4 programs in their JGP stages that year. This goes to show that comparing scores between events with different judging panels sometimes doesn’t lead to an objective comparison, and the score comparing is more representative when skaters compete directly against one another. since you yourself admit that Aliona is a stronger PCS skater than Sasha, you can probably tell that those scores really can’t be used to draw conclusions.

GPF is a bad example to compare Sasha against Anna particularly, because Anna had a total meltdown in both programs, worst performance in her career, and her PCS dropped significantly as a result. But it’s great to show, that despite the fact that Aliona scored less than Sasha in 3 out of 4 programs before that event that year, she scored a lot more once they actually skated against one another with the same panel.

Alright, buddy. If this isn’t clear enough, I don’t know how else I can help you. Your attempt to personally insult me with that nickname joke is so silly, I can’t even bother. Like come on now...

 

[Alex65]

How’s that the argument again? Sasha scored higher than Aliona too at the beginning of her second junior season. The trick is that all 3 were performing at different competitions, and not against each other.

So what's the trick, buddy?)

That’s exactly the problem. Then you should also add that at the same point of time she excelled Kostornaia, in order to have a full picture of how accurate your argument actually is. Because this is another one of arguments, where people only use the part that is convenient to them.

Now I have added Alena, at your request. What changed ? Except that your false accusations against me have not ceased to be false.
Of course, any example that doesn't fit the agenda is a bad example.
Any results you don't like for one reason or another can probably tell that those scores really can’t be used to draw conclusions.

 

[nussnacker]

So what's the trick, buddy?)

Now I have added Alena, at your request. What changed ? Except that your false accusations against me have not ceased to be false.
Of course, any example that doesn't fit the agenda is a bad example.

Okay, so you’re of an opinion that if someone has a terrible performance, it doesn’t affect their PCS, right? Because that’s what you’re alluding to now. Again, completely illogical, since before you have said that Sasha’s PCS is lower only because of falls.

there’s no trick, I just explained why comparing PCS across different events isn’t accurate. Which is something you have used as an argument.

AS I SAID: your fact is missing context.

If you say „Sasha scored higher than Anna, but her PCS got lower only because of the falls“, you could use the exact same argument with Aliona, because she scored higher than Aliona too. But I would assume you don’t think Aliona should‘ve scored less than Sasha in PCS, from what you were telling me. So why does it work fine in one case for you, but the other one you’re just choosing to ignore?

 

[Alex65]

Okay, so you’re of an opinion that if someone has a terrible performance, it doesn’t affect their PCS, right? Because that’s what you’re alluding to now. Again, completely illogical, since before you have said that Sasha’s PCS is lower only because of falls.

there’s no trick, I just explained why comparing PCS across different events isn’t accurate. Which is something you have used as an argument.

AS I SAID: your fact is missing context.

If you say „Sasha scored higher than Anna, but her PCS got lower only because of the falls“, you could use the exact same argument with Aliona, because she scored higher than Aliona too. But I would assume you don’t think Aliona should‘ve scored less than Sasha in PCS, from what you were telling me. So why does it work fine in one case for you, but the other one you’re just choosing to ignore?

Let's not divert the conversation away from the original topic in the jungle of demagoguery. The scores of the PCS are not set in stone forever, yesterday they were some points, tomorrow the skater will earn others.
You directly accused me of lying, I proved my case to you with the numbers from the competition protocol. Dot . To apologize for slander in your area is probably not accepted?