Judging Critiques/Continuation of Plushenko’s Allegations

[Skatesocs]

Your point was that YuNa had the right approach to the flip, which we can call textbook, however her edge was not always right.

You have seen someone on this page claim that Yuna's Flip was on a slight inside edge based off the tracing. I'd like you to refute that, if you can, before I continue. I am not going to ask you to give me a mechanical analysis again, because it's beyond obvious you can't.

But for the flip and the lutz judges are looking for the edge, that's how the jump is defined,

Then why did you say Yuna's Flip edge wasn't correct, when the judges called it correct most of the time?

I guess, we are back to swerving between two different things

which is made for beginners to learn about the jump the easiest way

I can imagine why some would confuse "textbook" with "my first big book".

sorry if that triggered you

The only things that trigger me are pointless exercises in semantics. I hope that helps?

 

[Baron Vladimir]

You have seen someone on this page claim that Yuna's Flip was on a slight inside edge based off the tracing. I'd like you to refute that, if you can, before I continue. I am not going to ask you to give me a mechanical analysis again, because it's beyond obvious you can't.

So, you really want from me to respond to the things which Koola King said?

 

[Skatesocs]

So, you really want from me to respond to the things which Koola King said?

Dawn825 said on the page that she was on a slight inside edge based off the tracing. To my knowledge, they aren't Koola King, though I don't know them personally.

Do you have anything else to say, outside of ad hominem?

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Dawn825 said on the page that she was on a slight inside edge based off the tracing. To my knowledge, they aren't Koola King, though I don't know them personally.

Do you have anything else to say, outside of ad hominem?

That we are free to watch Koola King videos and to believe in them

 

[Skatesocs]

That you are free to watch Koola King videos and to believe in them

I am now going to ignore your posts, because this proves to me you have little interest in participating in good faith discussion in the first
place. Will be great, to free up several threads of skating instead of the usual from you.

---

Anyone with an interest in discussing skating, please go ahead.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Oh, dear. Is this a continuation of the link I gave you to read again? That you and you alone are the one who knows The Truth, and the people who disagree on this forum are simply biased. Aw, you shouldn't have! I'm laughing again, thank you!

I don't believe in one truth. I'm just presenting all the other truths i can find possible. Which is what figure skating is after all. A field of many equal truths. So yes, every person who believe in only one truth about figure skating is a biased person for me

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Otherwise, we would have one or two persons judging the competition and not twelve of them. With not one of the individual opinions being the most valuable one, but just the average of many of them. Which is in the end, not any of theirs individual opinion.

 

[Skatesocs]

I wouldn't "by the time she picks in" is definitive of ideal technique. And it's arguable at that if the inside edge is definitive enough. It's clear that after turning backwards she goes onto an outside edge. This isn't ideal and would likely get an edge call by more than one tech panel these days. Not every flip jumper jumps as high as Midori, but they certainly have better edge control in maintaining the inside edge on the tail end of their mohawk/3turn before picking in which makes their edge less ambiguous.

I wouldn't call it "ideal" either actually. I thought I'd put that sentence in, but it turns out I removed it I agree Ito's isn't an "ideal" Flip. I mentioned it as correct, because on her best attempts, by the time she picks in, she was on a slight inside edge and got great height off it. This technique can be up for debate now however, I can agree to that.

Sorry for the confusion there. (ETA: I see that the terms we are using are different. Ideal vs correct vs acceptable today. Partly my own fault, I should have been clearer in my OP. But I did mean on her best ones she was finally on the slight inside edge by the time she picked in and on a straight entry - hence "correct". Not ideal, but correct.)

Just to belabor my point on this to you @CanadianSkaterGuy, I present to you... Mao Asada.




This is what I specifically am not sure of in Midori's case. Mao also goes into an inside edge ... but only by the time she picks in. She's on an outside edge before that. (This is her Flip)

This is why I am *personally* not sure if I wouldn't call Ito's correct if she's on an inside by the time she picks in. Non-ideal... but acceptable? At least by 2007 standards. But I'd love to discuss it. We all know Mao's was a correct Flip edge and was never called

Or for a more recent example... Kaori Sakamoto:

Again, I agree it's not ideal. But I do think it's correct. My example of using Midori would be to say that when she hit it, she hit it out of the park.

ETA: I will add that Mao's wasn't as severe after the 2006-07 season though. https://youtu.be/DNQ9HWCeoYo?t=177 Still switches from the outside to inside at the end there, but the outside edge is quite slight.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Just to belabor my point on this to you @CanadianSkaterGuy, I present to you... Mao Asada.




This is what I specifically am not sure of in Midori's case. Mao also goes into an inside edge ... but only by the time she picks in. She's on an outside edge before that. (This is her Flip)

This is why I am *personally* not sure if I wouldn't call Ito's correct if she's on an inside by the time she picks in. Non-ideal... but acceptable? At least by 2007 standards. But I'd love to discuss it. We all know Mao's was a correct Flip edge and was never called

Or for a more recent example... Kaori Sakamoto:

Again, I agree it's not ideal. But I do think it's correct. My example of using Midori would be to say that when she hit it, she hit it out of the park.

ETA: I will add that Mao's wasn't as severe after the 2006-07 season though. https://youtu.be/DNQ9HWCeoYo?t=177 Still switches from the outside to inside at the end there, but the outside edge is quite slight.

I’ve never been a fan of Mao or Kaori’s flip jumps for the outside-inside edge change on it. It’s not the same as lutz jumpers who lip because they apply their lutz technique to their flip.

I get they may be comfortable doing it that way and they ultimately end up on an inside edge but it’s an odd technique and both of them being flutzers makes me wonder if this flip technique carries over into their lutz technique, leading to a flutz.

 

[gsk8]

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