Jump hype or soap opera: what can make the general public of the U.S. fall in love with figure skating again?

[TontoK]

This is because American fandom is idol-based, when Russians are more 'for the good of the sport'/sport as a whole fans. It might stem from the cardinal differences in a mindset, but Russians love challengers, challenge and winners and whoever has to do it as long as they do it is awesome, while Americans just want the same person who skated in 2005 or 1992 or whatever to compete even if they physically can't. American fans really get attached to the degree that is mindboggling, and they pray for miracles, ignoring reality. They want a small sport, not a big one, so they can adore that one and only champion. Addendum here is that nothing is true for everyone. Russians are more likely to follow all 4 disciplines, welcome new athletes into the arena, and transfer their fan-vibes to them faster than the Americans. On the downside, Russians are far, far more likely to mud-sling at any failure and define failure in terrifyingly broad terms (to the absurd point when silver is a failure). I mean, if Americans got a time-out from international competitions for a bit, there will be no figure skating left there. Russians are still there. And they are happy to do both hype and soap opera. I mean, see Trusova/Ignatov's latest outing and joyful quoting of the very worst coming out of the mouth of aging TAT.

Shouldn't the answer be why not both?

This is a very interesting response. Thank you for taking the time.

I can't say I'm in full agreement... but then again, I can't refute what you're saying either, at least entirely.

I think I'm more Russian - as you describe the concept - in my willingness to toss the current darling to the sharks. My fandom lasts as long as I'm entertained. I can watch past great performances on YouTube, so I don't need any on-the-downslide mediocre skating to warm my heart with memories of when a skater was good.

I'm more American in my preference for lack of a soap opera, even though I concede it might not be the worst thing ever for public engagement.

I need to ponder this.

 

[Mathman]

2. Scoring system. We ordinary people who do not understand so much about difficult have it difficulties to find out why a skater who falls can win. We don't know which is difficult entry or we do not get that some ugly moves are in fact there because of level hunting

My own personal opinion is that the complicated scoring system is not really so much of a culprit in attracting new fans and keeping the old.

My favorite summer olympic sports include gymnastics. What I know about gymnastics is, don't fall off the balance beam and don't go out of bounds on a tumbling pass.

I like diving, especially synchronized diving. What I know about the scoring system is, try not to make a big splash when you hit the water. I like trampoline. How is it scored? Haven't the foggiest. Horse dancing, ditto. Any of these sports, in common with figure slkating -- if anyone wants to learn more about the rules, such information is readily available. If they don't, well, then they don't.

 

[Mathman]

This is because American fandom is idol-based, when Russians are more 'for the good of the sport'/sport as a whole fans.

My own impression is that people are more the same than they are different. Several posts of this thread have advanced the view that the Russian people are more drawn to drama and BS than is the case in some other places. That seems like baloney to me. As for hero worship, I don't think that Spaniards (despite the popularity of Javier Fernandez) or Koreans (despite the trailblazing success of Yuna Kim) are any better/worse on this score than anyone else's is.

 

[lariko]

My own impression is that people are more the same than they are different. Several posts of this thread have advanced the view that the Russian people are more drawn to drama and BS than is the case in some other places. That seems like baloney to me. As for hero worship, I don't think that Spaniards (despite the popularity of Javier Fernandez) or Koreans (despite the trailblazing success of Yuna Kim) are any better/worse on this score than anyone else's is.

Do you see a lot of Russian fans on this forum finding all possible and impossible loopholes to plug in divine, incomparable Sotnikova into every third post or expressing a wistful hope that Lipnitskaya would somehow qualify for RusNats next season? They are more like, Petrosyan is it this year? Go, Petrosyan! No idea what point you are trying to make with the Spaniards/Koreans. I think they don't care all that much about either figure skating or individual figure skaters. They like had more recent skaters on the podiums for Korea than Yuna Kim who was in her prime when? A decade ago?

 

[TallyT]

This is because American fandom is idol-based, when Russians are more 'for the good of the sport'/sport as a whole fans. It might stem from the cardinal differences in a mindset, but Russians love challengers, challenge and winners and whoever has to do it as long as they do it is awesome, while Americans just want the same person who skated in 2005 or 1992 or whatever to compete even if they physically can't. American fans really get attached to the degree that is mindboggling, and they pray for miracles, ignoring reality. They want a small sport, not a big one, so they can adore that one and only champion. Addendum here is that nothing is true for everyone. Russians are more likely to follow all 4 disciplines, welcome new athletes into the arena, and transfer their fan-vibes to them faster than the Americans. On the downside, Russians are far, far more likely to mud-sling at any failure and define failure in terrifyingly broad terms (to the absurd point when silver is a failure). I mean, if Americans got a time-out from international competitions for a bit, there will be no figure skating left there. Russians are still there. And they are happy to do both hype and soap opera. I mean, see Trusova/Ignatov's latest outing and joyful quoting of the very worst coming out of the mouth of aging TAT.

Shouldn't the answer be why not both?

Precis... Russian skaters are disposable. US ones, not so much.

I'm not sure I totally agree, Petrosian is the biggest name there doesn't appear to be anywhere near the star her predeccessors were (and still are) even in Russia. Mind you, without international glory and also without any interesting 'star' competition, there's not a hell of a lot of the pr aka yes soap opera appeal. I do agree that Russian fandom is terrifying, probably the most toxic in the world which probably which is part of why we had the godawful fremdschämen-inducing meltdown dramas at the last two Olympics.

 

[Anna K.]

Do you see a lot of Russian fans on this forum finding all possible and impossible loopholes to plug in divine, incomparable Sotnikova

Nah, just one fan who keeps plugging in divine incomparable Valieva... I haven't seen this fan lately though. Oh, right! This fan is on my ignore list

Back to your point, when I wasn't a member of this forum, I used to check Russian fan sites for information and these were mostly fan sites devoted to individual skaters. So, from my experience, people in Russia (at least teen and tween girls in Russia when they have a handsome male skater to adore) can be just as good at forming idol-based fandoms as people everywhere in the world (at least teen and tween girls everywhere in the world).

It was 20 years ago though. As for now, I think you are correct. The obvious majority of Russian figure skating fans tend to be fans of the result or whoever can provide the result rather than support a specific skater regardless of his/her results. But they are not unique in this. A segment of fans that are attracted by success and do not forgive failures exist in all countries. If Ilia or Amber will not win in Boston, we will see some fine American examples in this forum

 

[Mathman]

No idea what point you are trying to make with the Spaniards/Koreans.

The point I was tying to make is that Spaniards and Koreans are a lot like non-Spanierds and non-Koreans. They are in fact a lot like Russians and Americans. A lot like Brazilians.

 

[Arigato]

Precis... Russian skaters are disposable. US ones, not so much.

I'm not sure I totally agree, Petrosian is the biggest name there doesn't appear to be anywhere near the star her predeccessors were (and still are) even in Russia. Mind you, without international glory and also without any interesting 'star' competition, there's not a hell of a lot of the pr aka yes soap opera appeal. I do agree that Russian fandom is terrifying, probably the most toxic in the world which probably which is part of why we had the godawful fremdschämen-inducing meltdown dramas at the last two Olympics.

Last two? I have no recollection of anything wretched happening at Pyeongchang. But then I didn't watch the women.

 

[TallyT]

Last two? I have no recollection of anything wretched happening at Pyeongchang. But then I didn't watch the women.

Medvedeva in floods of tears (I'm not blaming her), Tutberidze and team all over her and Zagitova sitting alone and IIRC clutching a stuffie... it was uncannily like a trial run for Beiijing.

 

[Arigato]

Medvedeva in floods of tears (I'm not blaming her), Tutberidze and team all over her and Zagitova sitting alone and IIRC clutching a stuffie... it was uncannily like a trial run for Beiijing.

And this is somehow good for the sport to some people? Good grief.

 

[Magill]

My own personal opinion is that the complicated scoring system is not really so much of a culprit in attracting new fans and keeping the old.

My favorite summer olympic sports include gymnastics. What I know about gymnastics is, don't fall off the balance beam and don't go out of bounds on a tumbling pass.

I like diving, especially synchronized diving. What I know about the scoring system is, try not to make a big splash when you hit the water. I like trampoline. How is it scored? Haven't the foggiest. Horse dancing, ditto. Any of these sports, in common with figure slkating -- if anyone wants to learn more about the rules, such information is readily available. If they don't, well, then they don't.

I think the difference between all these sports and FS from the point of view of a casual viewer is that FS seems to be about expressing music while "dancing" on the ice. So it seems to be much more about performance aspect than anything else, with jumps, spins etc,. just complicated dancing figures and nothing more. And when it comes to that, everyone feels an expert - as if feels it is mostly about what I like the best.
That's why, I think, mistreatment of the performance aspect of programs is doing a really bad job to FS popularity. I am pretty sure the current practice of giving high PCS to high TES skaters no matter the true performance value is not just against the rules, but also is doing a real disservice to the sport's popularity. It is trying to turn high-TES skaters into stars while the real star quality lies with the natural performers who get ignored by the scoring system - and, consequently, by marketing efforts and PR power.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

And If people don't understand a sport has to be visually promoted by any and all means possible, there's a problem.

People understand. And they try to promote sports. But the methods are sometimes strange:

Trusova managed to get to the worlds despite the ban...

 

[jorge2912]

Nah, just one fan who keeps plugging in divine incomparable Valieva... I haven't seen this fan lately though. Oh, right! This fan is on my ignore list

For me Valieva or any Russian figure skater nowadays isn't a reference for me because didn't fair play, maybe in 2000s the last who was fair play was Irina Slutzkaya .

Last year was in a WADA classes and according with the rules, Valieva it was the responsible of all what happened even if isn't her intention but rules are rules, if this country made a scandal like they use to do and adds nationalism and politics to the topic but if that don't recognize something themselves as federation has signed that is another topic

 

[lariko]

The point I was tying to make is that Spaniards and Koreans are a lot like non-Spanierds and non-Koreans. They are in fact a lot like Russians and Americans. A lot like Brazilians.

I think I disagree. Cultural biases, values instilled with nurture, and mindsets are a thing.

 

[Arigato]

People understand.

No dice, kiddo.

 

[Mathman]

Russian skaters are disposable.

Well, yes, new Russian hopefuls (ladies) have been coming along, with steady regularity, for the last decade.

Still, I really, really hope that skating fans world-wide will look back with fondness toward the likes of Julia Lipnitskaia, Evgenia Medvedeva, Alena Zagitova, Alexandra Trusova, Anna Shcherbakova and yes, Kamila Valieva -- even though the torch has been passed.

We will not pass this way again.

 

[RobinA]

I'm probably going to sound like a broken record but this question has been asked sooooo many times and the answers don't vary much. Figure skating was popular when people could SEE it. Stars on Ice and the World Tour of Figure Skating Champions and the many pro competitions were televised in prime time and people could get to know the skaters and want to see them again. And you could actually attend a competition in the US and not have to pay an arm and a leg to get tickets. For many years Stars on Ice was held on Mother's Day in the SF Bay Area. Needless to say my family put the kabosh on me attending. And speaking of expensive ticket prices - have you checked out the prices for Stars on Ice? So what came first - the exorbitant prices or the lack of interest causing the prices to be raised because they had to meet the cost of producing the show. And even now, if a competition is shown on a major network it's so watered down you only get to see a small portion of the contestants and (this is my own gripe) listen to Tara Lipinski natter on and on ad nauseum about "grade of execution!" Or you have to pay for Peacock and they only hold the programs for 72 hours. Lack of exposure is a direct correlation to lack of interest. Simple as that.

I can't speak for anyone else. but this is a big part of it for me. It's too hard to watch anymore. I can't watch during the daytime, so even this Worlds I simply can't watch a good half of it. I used to have Peacock, but midskating season this year they decided I had to pay for it. I will probably pay for the skating months next year, but then if it changes I'm out of the loop again.

My second issue is CoP, which I hated when it started and I hate it now. I think the programs are boring and all the same. Lately I've been watching more old stuff than new stuff. When I want to see some good skating I put on Michelle doing East of Eden or Fields of Gold. Of Katya and Sergey winning that first Gold Medal. Or Shen and Zhou winning the World Gold in DC to Turandot. Or Klimova/Ponamarenko doing Toccata & Fugue... Some of those I saw live, some not. Skating just isn't like that anymore.

I used to go to events fairly frequently, but now they are all in the west or midwest. I was thinking of going to Kansas City, but I would have to fly and I think I'll pass on that for awhile. Not to mention the fact that the decisions as to where the events will be are so close to the event, I've made other plans. Where's Skate America this year? I don't know, as far as I know it hasn't been announced but I've already made vacation plans. I remember ordering Nationals tickets for Philadelphia two years in advance. So that's put a crimp in my style. They've made it too difficult.

 

[RobinA]

The exact same things they were crying and saying about Nathan Chen at the same stage in his career, that he was destined to be the bridge and make figure skating popular and cool again.

I mean good luck to him if he gets a measure of fame and success and money - and the same to Amber, Isabeau or Alysa, whichever ends up reigning, or indeed all three - but none of them are likely to be The Answer.

I seriously doubt there will be another Answer, particularly in Men's, under CoP. Let's talk Robin Cousins, Brian Boitano, Orser, John Curry, Browning... I'd watch any of them before I'd watch Chen or Yags. Who I liked fine, they just don't have anything I'd change my plans to see.

 

[Mathman]

I seriously doubt there will be another Answer, particularly in Men's, under CoP. Let's talk Robin Cousins, Brian Boitano, Orser, John Curry, Browning... I'd watch any of them before I'd watch Chen or Yags. Who I liked fine, they just don't have anything I'd change my plans to see.

Different times.

Actually, Yagudin did show some individual personality and interesting choreography. Nathan Chen had excellent if largely unheralded skating skills. This new kid on the block, Malinin -- you never know.

 

[RobinA]

Different times, indeed. Sometimes I think I still watch skating more out of habit than real enjoyment. But I keep hoping for the next Answer. Long time coming.