Just HOW will the U.S. teams be picked?

[gfskater]

Well, that's what the 240 posts on this thread are arguing about.

The consensus seems to be (but its not unanimous) that the USFSA will base the Olympic selection on the results of Nationals alone as they always have, and they are just kidding about those other four events, to fool the USOC.

Right, that is the feeling I got that from reading posts but I did not see anyone mention that docuemnt. (I did not read all 240 posts so maybe someone did.) Looking at those events would make sense. Not just placement, but the scores.

Does it really matter for the ladies when none of them have scored above 172 in any of those events? Most of the US ladies scores are in the 150s and low 160s.

 

[PolymerBob]

The consensus seems to be (but its not unanimous) that the USFSA will base the Olympic selection on the results of Nationals alone as they always have, and they are just kidding about those other four events, to fool the USOC.

OK then. Bringing the argument around full circle ( 360 degrees, 6.28319 radians ) one more time ........... Will the judging be fair, or will other events cloud the judges' judgement?

 

[Mathman]

Does it really matter for the ladies when none of them have scored above 172 in any of those events? Most of the US ladies scores are in the 150s and low 160s.

That's how I look at it, too. But others think that Rachael Flatt deserves an edge because she was the highest placed U.S. lady at Worlds, some are hoping that Caroline Zhang will get a bonus for being the top U.S. lady at both Four Continents and Junior Worlds, and still others believe that Ashley Wagner has a leg up for making the Grand Prix Final.

The test case would be if Evan Lysacek does not make the podium at Nationals. But the probability of this happening is vanishingly small, so we will probably never know whether our attempts at reading the minds of the USFSA decision-makers are on target or not.

OK then. Bringing the argument around full circle ( 360 degrees, 6.28319 radians ) one more time ........... Will the judging be fair, or will other events cloud the judges' judgement?

I believe and hope that the judges at Nationals will do their best to judge what they see before them. I do not think, for instance, that they will whisper among themselves, "we gave it to Alissa last year and she ler us down, so this year let's will take away all those points we gave her last year."

Again, I think the only test case would be Lysacek. If he gets beaten soundly by two others, and it is close between 3rd and 4th, might they give Evan a little boost because of his Olympic potential?

Davis and White and Belbin and Agosto might be in a position similar to Lysacek's, but in dance there is less oppotunity for some unknown team to sneak in with a skate-of-their-life.

 

[silverlake22]

Just woke up, new dream last night. BIG NEWS!


Ok so Sasha did the short, fell on all three jumps, was 10th (?) and withdrew.

Alissa had a great SP and 6 clean triples in the LP BUT

So did Ashley and Mirai

Caroline and Rachael had great SPs and did 7 clean triples in the LP AND

They both skated super fast!

Christina brought Yuna to the competition because Brian was sick, she did a clean short and they gave her 77 points! (breaking Yuna's record, because they thought Yuna was her actual coach)

Then in the FS Chrisitina went clean, and did a 3lz-3t! (just like Yuna!) and completed 7 triples total. Her overall score was 211 (breaking Yuna's record). Those two looked really excited!

Everyone else was okay, except Angela went clean and did some cool Karate moves in her footwork :agree:

In the end the results were: 1.) Christina 2.) Alissa 3.) Rachael

But Sasha and Christina were sent to the Olympics because Sasha petitioned (even though she couldn't do her LP at nats). Alissa and Rachael looked pretty pissed. Then I woke up.
:thumbsup:

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Just woke up, new dream last night. BIG NEWS!


Ok so Sasha did the short, fell on all three jumps, was 10th (?) and withdrew.

Alissa had a great SP and 6 clean triples in the LP BUT

So did Ashley and Mirai

Caroline and Rachael had great SPs and did 7 clean triples in the LP AND

They both skated super fast!

Christina brought Yuna to the competition because Brian was sick, she did a clean short and they gave her 77 points! (breaking Yuna's record, because they thought Yuna was her actual coach)

Then in the FS Chrisitina went clean, and did a 3lz-3t! (just like Yuna!) and completed 7 triples total. Her overall score was 211 (breaking Yuna's record). Those two looked really excited!

Everyone else was okay, except Angela went clean and did some cool Karate moves in her footwork :agree:

In the end the results were: 1.) Christina 2.) Alissa 3.) Rachael

But Sasha and Christina were sent to the Olympics because Sasha petitioned (even though she couldn't do her LP at nats). Alissa and Rachael looked pretty pissed. Then I woke up.
:thumbsup:

You rock.

 

[R.D.]

wow. You're REALLY thinking about this too much...Quite funny though.

 

[silverlake22]

wow. You're REALLY thinking about this too much...Quite funny though.

Um, yeah, I tend to do that about a lot of things, it's a bit of a problem. Anyone know if any of the US entries are changing their programs for nationals? I know Caroline did last year and Rachael did for worlds, I haven't heard anything but I'm curious if anyone is going to switch.

 

[Sylvia]

For the record, Mitchell is not on this year's International Committee. It is my understanding that the updated list of International Committee and ICMS members should be published online soon.

The link has been posted at least twice in this thread already, but I just wanted to point out that the 2010 US Olympic figure skating athlete selection procedure document has been updated as of 12/31/09:
U.S. Figure Skating Athlete Selection Procedures (Revised December 31, 2009)

The main updates are on page 4 (the first paragraph specifies the ICMS meeting dates, which will take place on the same day each Senior event concludes), pp. 5-6 (current list of ICMS and International Committee members) and p. 10 (VIII. Date of Nomination).

Updated paragraph on page 4:

The International Committee Management Subcommittee (ICMS) will meet formally on Saturday, January 16 for pairs and Sunday, January 17 for men and Saturday, January 23 for dance and ladies to determine its respective nominees to the 2010 U.S. Olympic Team and replacement athletes in ranked order. The ICMS selection and recommendation for each discipline will then be forwarded to the U.S. Figure Skating International Committtee for final approval. U.S. Figure Skating's International Committee will meet immediately following receipt of the ICMS recommendations. All athletes are to be considered nominees to the 2010 U.S. Olympic Team until final approval is given by the USOC. A quorum of both the ICMS and International Committee must vote in order for the ICMS recommendation, and subsquent International Committee approved nominations to be official. A quorum is defined as a majority, respectively, of the ICMS and International Committee members, present either in person or via telephone conference call.

Page 10:

VIII. DATE OF NOMINATION
The Nomination of Athletes, including replacements, will be announced following the conclusion of each discipline at the 2010 U.S. Figure Skating Championships.

2010 U.S. Figure Skating Championships schedule of athlete announcement:
Pairs = January 16, 2010
Men = January 17, 2010
Ladies & Ice Dance = Janary 23, 2010

 

[bigsisjiejie]

^^ I wonder if we can presume that the sequential announcement of the Olympic nominees, as each discipline finishes, will also include sequential announcement of the 4CC team members, as 4CC time frame is pretty much immediately after Nationals and the participants have to leave the US asap? I could see them holding off public announcement of the World and World Jr. Teams until all disciplines are finished, but it seems at least the skaters and coaches are going to have to be told the Big Picture so they can make plans, and/or have opportunity to decline an assignment.

 

[silverlake22]

^^ I wonder if we can presume that the sequential announcement of the Olympic nominees, as each discipline finishes, will also include sequential announcement of the 4CC team members, as 4CC time frame is pretty much immediately after Nationals and the participants have to leave the US asap? I could see them holding off public announcement of the World and World Jr. Teams until all disciplines are finished, but it seems at least the skaters and coaches are going to have to be told the Big Picture so they can make plans, and/or have opportunity to decline an assignment.

I kind of feel like no one really cares about 4CC to be honest. I'm not sure if the 2 ladies/3 men selected for the Olympics will even compete, it might be a little stressful to have to travel and compete again before the games start in February. Because of this, it might be smarter of the USFSA to send different skaters to 4CC than to the Olympics and then that way more people get international events and are happy :thumbsup: lol.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Thank you Sylvia for the updates. I noticed the four competitions which will be considered for the selection of the Team- US Nats, The GP Final, The 2009 Worlds, The 4CC s.

The selection procedure was simple in the past what with Lipinsky, Kwan, Bobeck, as examples, that the results of the US Nats coincidd ed with the Committee more often than. That is why some fans took it for granted that the Nats alone determine who goes to Vancouver.

IMO, the Selection Committee may have more difficult decisions to make this year. It's their job to send the overall best to Vancouver.

 

[janetfan]

Thank you Sylvia for the updates. I noticed the four competitions which will be considered for the selection of the Team- US Nats, The GP Final, The 2009 Worlds, The 4CC s.

The selection procedure was simple in the past what with Lipinsky, Kwan, Bobeck, as examples, that the results of the US Nats coincidd ed with the Committee more often than. That is why some fans took it for granted that the Nats alone determine who goes to Vancouver.

IMO, the Selection Committee may have more difficult decisions to make this year. It's their job to send the overall best to Vancouver.

It is interesting that so much of this discussion has centered on the Ladies.
I have a hunch if there is a controversy about the selection of the Olympic team it might be over the Men's team.

Despite the fact that many fans want their favorite Lady to be selected - the Ladies are really up in the air. To me none deserve to be picked other than by their finish at Natls because they have not distingusihed themselves in the past year. Sorry, but imo a 5th place finish at Worlds last year is not to be compared to a medal, especially when that skater failed to make the GPF this year.

The Men have three skaters - Evan, Jeremy and Johnny who have a much better track record than any of the Ladies (with the exception of Sasha) and it could be dicey particularly if Jeremy or Johnny have a bad skate at Natls.

Should this happen will the committee tell - maybe Ryan, Adam or Brandon that their medal at Natls doesn't count for anything?

 

[chuckm]

Despite the fact that many fans want their favorite Lady to be selected - the Ladies are really up in the air. To me none deserve to be picked other than by their finish at Natls because they have not distingusihed themselves in the past year. Sorry, but imo a 5th place finish at Worlds last year is not to be compared to a medal, especially when that skater failed to make the GPF this year.

Sorry, but IMO an 11th place finish at Worlds last year is not to be compared to a medal, especially when that skater failed to make the GPF this year.

And the skater that DID make the GPF skated so poorly in the SP (last) that she finished out of the medals there. If Rochette and Leonova hadn't bombed their FSs, she would have been last.

 

[janetfan]

Sorry, but IMO an 11th place finish at Worlds last year is not to be compared to a medal, especially when that skater failed to make the GPF this year.

And the skater that DID make the GPF skated so poorly in the SP (last) that she finished out of the medals there. If Rochette and Leonova hadn't bombed their FSs, she would have been last.

That is why I hope the top two Ladies at Natls will be named to the Olympic team.

 

[silverlake22]

Sorry, but IMO an 11th place finish at Worlds last year is not to be compared to a medal, especially when that skater failed to make the GPF this year.

And the skater that DID make the GPF skated so poorly in the SP (last) that she finished out of the medals there. If Rochette and Leonova hadn't bombed their FSs, she would have been last.

Yes exactly, and the skater that DID make the GPF was also outscored by the two girls that finished 5th and 11th at worlds anyways, and only made the GPF because she had easier events. This skater also had the best shot at winning Jr. Worlds and failed to do so, finishing 3rd.

Caroline actually probably has the best track record coming into nationals if you take into consideration her 4th place finish at 4CC and her silver at junior worlds.

In my opinion, Mirai has been skating the best this season out of the ladies. Rachael was awesome at SA in the FS but her SP there and both programs at CoC were not too exciting.

Alissa had a great SP at SC and a decent SP at COR but both her FS have been ridden with falls and 3 URs at both her events.

Ashley made the final but didn't really skate convincingly until her FS there, which didn't even score that well.

Caroline has been having big issues in both programs at both events.

Mirai's FS at CoC was a mess, but her SP there was great and I felt both programs at SC were underscored and that if that competition had been scored fairly she would have come in 2nd. There was no reason for her to get a 56 when Alissa got a 63 and Mirai had gotten a 62 for an identical performance she delivered 2 weeks before. If Mirai had gotten the scores she deserved there, she would have overtaken Lepisto for sure and probably Czisny too, as Alissa's FS was a mess with 2 falls and 3 URs.

 

[Nadine]

Wow, I just now watched a video of Ashley Wagner skating this past weekend here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG4yuIWHxUo and I'm sooooooo EXCITED for Nationals!!!!!!!!!!!!!arty:

I also saw another video of the Triple Axel Girl here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhlC_kQ_wTg and am equally EXCITED! Here's hoping Melissa Bulanhagui tries the triple axel in either her SP or LP. I'm crossing my fingers that she makes the Top 10, which is totally possible, same thing for Emily Hughes!

Back to Ashley though, I can totally see her making the Olympic Team, and I would say the same thing goes for Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu, Rachael Flatt, Sasha Cohen, and Alissa Czisny. These are my Top 5 in any order to make the Olympic Team, but also I won't be surprised to see at least one or two of them drop all the way down in the final standings to making the Top 10, and conversely having someone NOT named Zhang/Nagasu/Flatt/Cohen/Czisny actually shock everyone & make TOP 5!!!!!

May they ALL skate great, like they did in 2008, and make this competition one for the ages...

 

[R.D.]

It depends on who can bring it next week.

 

[Mathman]

It is interesting that so much of this discussion has centered on the Ladies.

I have a hunch if there is a controversy about the selection of the Olympic team it might be over the Men's team....

The Men have three skaters - Evan, Jeremy and Johnny who have a much better track record than any of the Ladies (with the exception of Sasha) and it could be dicey particularly if Jeremy or Johnny have a bad skate at Natls.

Should this happen will the committee tell - maybe Ryan, Adam or Brandon that their medal at Natls doesn't count for anything?

I agree 100%. It wiil be the men, not the ladies, that will tell us what the USFSA really has up its sleeve with the supposed "new" rules.

Lysacek was first at Worlds, first at the Grand Prix Final, and second at Four Continents. If "the committee" really intends to take these events into consideration, Lysacek should be in no matter what he does at Nationals.

Abbott was11th at Worlds, 4th at the Grand Prix Final, and fifth at Four Continents. OK, but no free pass to the Olympics, IMHO.

Mroz was 9th at Worlds, 8th at Four Continents, and did not make the Grand Prix Finals.

Weir did not go to Worlds or Four Continents, made the Grand Prix finals and got bronze.

Will any of this amount to a hill of beans, or will winners-take-all at Nationals?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

is why I hope the top two Ladies at Natls will be named to the Olympic team.

Does that include BeBe Liang if she places 1st or 2nd, or do you want the Com mittee to make the decision if Bebe does have her best ever.

 

[janetfan]

Does that include BeBe Liang if she places 1st or 2nd, or do you want the Com mittee to make the decision if Bebe does have her best ever.

If Bebe wins Natls then she will be on the Olympic team.
If the others are so inept and crack under the pressure then Bebe would deserve it. Same for Alexe, Christina or anyone else who could pull such an upset.

But you are using a hypothetical - and an example that I can't recall happening before in the past. .

Maybe you can tell us when in the past a much lower ranked Lady skater beat the favorites in an Olympic season to become US champion?