Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Baron Vladimir]

The medical establishment disagrees. I find it quite offensive to all people with ADHD and struggle with its effects that you feel entitled to make this claim going against the actual experts in the field.

You don't have the authority to declare that ADHD isn't a real condition, or that pro athletes can't(or shouldn't) compete if they have it. Both of which you have done repeatedly in this thread.

The people that DO have that authority have declared the opposite

And i find quite offensive the purpose to diagnose people when you don't need to

 

[Wafflecakes]

My prediction:

It will be mailed to them. They'll make sure the team medal situation isn't resolved before many of the participants have left.

No matter how this turns out, the ISU/IOC isn't going to deal with a medal ceremony where attention will be focused on who is (or is not) on the medal stand.

That is my current expectation as well.

They will stall until the world loses interest then, if they can find an out of some kind they will give ROC a free pass... and if they can't find an easy out they will finally issue consequences quietly after the world has moved on and is no longer watching.

I hope I am wrong.

 

[readernick]

I admit that was my thought too. And that Eteri and RusFed tried to use the "minor competitor" loophole to exploit it to their advantage. Sounds awfully dishonest and corrupt, and I hope that's not the case. But it also makes sense why Sasha and Anna weren't included in the TeamEvent, that maybe they have been using TMZ and wanted to wait more time until it was cleared. Or maybe it was just Kamila because she was the only minor. It's sad to think like that.

I'm not optimistic much for Kamila though. Should she be that 'special' doping athlete that gets only a stern warning because she's a minor and it was the corrupt coaching team that derailed her career? Part of me says YES ABSOLUTELY YES. Krystal is not at all like American skating. Sure, there are abusive coaches here, but they don't practically OWN you and dictate how much water you can drink, how many ounces you can gain, if you show weakness you are ejected from the school. It's another world for the Eteri girls. I personally could handle Eteri but only up to her doping me, especially if I'm the greatest skater in the world. At 15 I would have been on top of EVERYTHING I put in my body. Kamila seems meek to me. Sheltered. We shouldn't then expect a 15 year old child to stand up to the top coach in Russia who can destroy your career on a whim. So I say give her a pass, but take Eteri to task and punish her. It just seems like such hubris to have your best skater in the world who outscores everyone, but then wanting to drive it home with unimaginable win margins. When you decide that Kamila should go even further to beat Anna the current world champ by over 20/30 points, that is just arrogance and hubris. She seriously wouldn't have had a problem winning big in the first place without this 'doping'. And the beneficial effects from what I'm reading is that 'theoretically' it might help, but it hasn't been shown to. It reminds me of Meldonium that Tuk admitted to using. Did it help her? Who knows. She's never been on an Olympic team after three tries so it doesn't look like some miracle performance enhancer. Kamila is the victim here. And I almost always side with the victims.

I agree with most of this but, as much as I see Kamila as a victim, she has to be suspended
( Although it is her coaching team who should receive the harshest punishment- they are the responsible parties) because , if not, it will be seen as a evidence that minors can dope without consequences. If minors can't be punished for doping, they shouldn't be allowed to participate in important international sporting events. So, raise the age of participation in all sports to 18 or punish the minors. ( While recognizing that the adults around them are responsible)

 

[Wafflecakes]

And i found quite offensive the purpose to diagnose people when you don't have

No actual rebuttal then. As expected.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I have said repeatedly that it DOES NOT MATTER whether it actually provides performance enhancing effects.

#147, #161, etc. where you go on and on about its PROVEN benefit.

Anyhow, it's fine. Just quit with the name calling.

 

[alexocfp]

So for you its ok for doping to gain an unfair advantage??? WOW

Well, I don’t think doping is an unfair advantage. You still need to go out and perform.

There is a lot of propaganda out there that if you take drugs, you can turn an average person into a champion. You can’t.

I know the orthodoxy is to be appalled at athletes using drugs, but it’s not a big deal for me. It’s not cheating to get the most out of your talent.

People are willing to take drugs. Be it recreational or sport, regardless of if it is illegal or not. That won’t ever stop.

 

[Amei]

So what is your theory? That there is some big conspiracy to frame Kamila?

Occam’s Razor

You really think that is more likely than there simply being a backlog of tests including B-samples that take more time to test and sometimes come out later. In some cases not coming out (and resulting in reversed medals) until years later.

Sigh, no not a conspiracy I think the backlog is a plausible scenario, they are probably having to work out the legalities of the backlog that resulted in the current conundrum - had the Fed known about the positive test its extremely unlikely she would have been sent to the Olympics or the very least wouldn't have been in the Team event, where if an appeal was lost the only potential medal being revoked is her individual 1 not the team medal.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Lol @ people in this thread coming out as openly pro doping and acting like in that world it would be the athletes choice.

In a world where doping in sports is made legal there will 100% be countries out there who see doping their athletes literally TO DEATH is an acceptable cost for achieving victory and reputation on the international stage. Do you really think the Chinese government would give their athletes the choice? What about North Korea?

Easy enough to make those athletes "disappear" after the Olympics so no one knows the long term effects.

 

[readernick]

Sigh, no not a conspiracy I think the backlog is a plausible scenario, they are probably having to work out the legalities of the backlog that resulted in the current conundrum - had the Fed known about the positive test its extremely unlikely she would have been sent to the Olympics or the very least wouldn't have been in the Team event, where if an appeal was lost the only potential medal being revoked is her individual 1 not the team medal.

I believe WADA has limited funding, they can't test everything. They often hold onto samples and test them later when an athlete participates in another competition. So, Valieva's participation in the Olympics may have triggered them to retest an old sample.

 

[4everchan]

Usually, a doping sanction is announced right away during the games... or not at all, and comes much later... stripped medals..etc..

This time around, it's VERY strange... and that doesn't smell good. I don't want to start speculating on here, but I think it's fine to say that there is a lot of smoke... and the fire will be ravaging for the sport, and the athletes of the sport (note the plural) one way or another...

At this point, there is absolutely NO WAY this situation will be solved positively. There will be damaged parties one way or another.

 

[alexocfp]

Really your post are just so crazy.

What’s so craze about wanting a once in a lifetime athlete to make money?

Why shouldn’t she monetize her skills?

 

[iceskater10]

Well, I don’t think doping is an unfair advantage. You still need to go out and perform.

There is a lot of propaganda out there that if you take drugs, you can turn an average person into a champion. You can’t.

I know the orthodoxy is to be appalled at athletes using drugs, but it’s not a big deal for me. It’s not cheating to get the most out of your talent.

People are willing to take drugs. Be it recreational or sport, regardless of if it is illegal or not. That won’t ever stop.

Wow!!! Maybe Just have two Olympics one for clean and one for doping.... Russia would be in the 2nd.

 

[Wafflecakes]

What’s so craze about wanting a once in a lifetime athlete to make money?

Why shouldn’t she monetize her skills?

I don't think many in this thread wish ill on Kamila.

We wish ill on the adults giving her drugs.

If this ends with Kamila a FS legend sitting on mounds of cash, but Eteri in jail, then I would be happy as a clam.

 

[alexocfp]

Wow!!! Maybe Just have two Olympics one for clean and one for doping.... Russia would be in the 2nd.

The clean Olympics will have next to no professional athletes if that’s the case.

News flash: Russian athletes aren’t doping at a higher rate than the rest of the world. They just aren’t as protected and don’t get bogus documents that allow them to dope via TUE.

This is the most infuriating thing. The double standards. My athletes are clean but the others are not. Let’s not ask questions about TUE’s and take athletes at their word but castigate everyone else.

I was like that too until 1988. Won’t ever get fooled again.

 

[Erin9]

Yikes.


Look, I love the Russian ladies. They are pretty much the only reason I watch the sport, but I can definitely understand why such allegations exist...

Wow. That’s bad.

 

[TontoK]

I think there's some confusion about "performance enhancing." And, I'm starting to believe this might be "intentional confusion" to cloud the issue.

Is this a magic pill that's going to make a skater jump higher or rotate faster, just because the athlete took the pill? No. But what it will do is allow the athlete to train longer and harder, which does improve performance in competition.

And again, the caveat: This depends on the reporting about the drug in question being accurate.

Also irrelevant: It does not matter that she tested positive somewhere other than Beijing. People advancing his nonsensical line of thought are not educated in drug testiing rules and protocols or, again, intentionally trying to cloud the issue.

And finally, I do NOT place the blame on Kamilla for this situation, but I absolutely DO place the blame on the adults surrounding her, and for the life of me, I can't understand why some people can't see that. The big question is easy: Who gave her that medication? Why are we dancing around that?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Lol @ people in this thread coming out as openly pro doping and acting like in that world it would be the athletes choice.

No one is pro doping. Kamila, even as an adult knowing what she took, wouldn't be banned for life for having a miniscule amount of the substance in her. A few months have passed now so you'd have to look at how much of an effect this would have today, since if you're going to boot someone from a competition there should be some unfair advantage. Arguably that unfair advantage could be that the quality of training improved as a result, but I don't think one failed test should result in someone getting banned permanently. Therefore, I think you do have to consider the effect (and duration of that effect) when determining how to move forward.

 

[Wafflecakes]

The clean Olympics will have next to no professional athletes if that’s the case.

News flash: Russian athletes aren’t doping at a higher rate than the rest of the world. They just aren’t as protected and don’t get bogus documents that allow them to dope via TUE.

There is literally nothing stopping Russia from using TUE.

The only thing they are victim of is their own bad behavior.

 

[gsk8]

Just a heads up. Like all other threads, bickering and name-calling will get you warned and possibly banned from this thread. Without notice.

 

[Wafflecakes]

No one is pro doping. Kamila, even as an adult knowing what she took, wouldn't be banned for life for having a miniscule amount of the substance in her. A few months have passed now so you'd have to look at how much of an effect this would have today, since if you're going to boot someone from a competition there should be some unfair advantage. Arguably that unfair advantage could be that the quality of training improved as a result, but I don't think one failed test should result in someone getting banned permanently. Therefore, I think you do have to consider the effect (and duration of that effect) when determining how to move forward.

Um what? alexocfp is openly campaigning for legalizing doping not a handful of posts above you....

...and who here is campaigning for a permanent ban for Kamila? No one that I have seen. She should get the ban that is in the rules..... the rules ROC agreed to. What that is will depend on the violation... which to my understanding is usually only a year.... sometimes less or more.