Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[flipsydoodle]

Of course they will try to do that and it happens In our court cases quite often.
I can see the Russians building a case that something happened to this urine sample of KVs in the 6 weeks it was not tested. They should have the rights to make that challenge and have it listen to and taken seriously. Of course that will only annoy the IOC and ISU and they may look to make a severe suspension against this girl. They are playing Russian roulette with her career

We don't know for sure Sample A wasn't tested for 6 weeks. Maybe a result was returned in a few days. The positive test that delayed the team medal ceremony may be Sample B. We don't know that either.

 

[millie]

For all the people here who are vehemently against the idea of Valieva skating in the ladies competition you do think it's fair for her rights to be represented in front of CAS don't you?

I mean if any of you were in a legal pinch I'm pretty sure you would want to be represented and have your voice heard.

We shuld not go by what Twitter and Christine Brennan say in the situation none of us know all the facts we probably don't even know half the facts. I say let it play out and let CAS make the decision on whether she skates or not and then everything unfolds after that including investigations. But the 15 year old girls rights have to be represented.

To be honest, if this young girl is found to innocent in these allegations, yes I will most definitely will watch her skate. With me, it’s not personal, it’s just that I like fair play.

 

[TontoK]

Well I've seen a fair amount of "if she's allowed to skate, I'm done with this farce of a sport" comments. While I do think a good number of those people would actually watch, it would be in disgust of the situation.

Even for an avid fan like me, much of the joy has been sucked out of the event. The two highlight events of any Olympics seem to be the Ladies Figure Skating and the Mens Downhill. No matter what happens, one of the main events is under a cloud.

The main reaction from my acquaintances is "We're at the point where they're doping children. Deal me out." Honestly, I'm ready for the Olympics to be over.

 

[zanadude]

After much reading, I've managed to confuse myself. Is what's being reviewed today Valieva's provisional suspension itself? Or just whether or not she should be allowed to continue participating in the Olympics?

 

[skatedreamer]

To be honest, if this young girl is found to innocent in these allegations, yes I will most definitely will watch her skate. With me, it’s not personal, it’s just that I like fair play.

The thing is that today's hearing was only for the purpose of deciding whether to reinstate the suspension, and thus whether she would be allowed to skate this week.

I firmly believe that the drug was given to her by the coaching staff without her knowledge. However, it will be months before a determination is reached about that.

 

[4everchan]

After much reading, I've managed to confuse myself. Is what's being reviewed today Valieva's provisional suspension itself? Or just whether or not she should be allowed to continue participating in the Olympics?

it's the suspension which is pretty much the same... they won't deal with what happened before just yet

 

[flipsydoodle]

That wasn't a figure skating expert, but a journalist who specialised in doping. And I just mentioned his arguments that speak for letting Kamila compete, of course he also mentioned the arguments that speak against it, but those are very apparent. For me it was interesting to hear reasons why she could be allowed to compete.

My statement regarding how I wish more technical and medical experts could be providing us information at this moment was a generality, not specific to a particular person. IMO the skating community is not used to discussing performance-enhancing drugs, so we could use some educating! In other disciplines, chat room posters are waaay more knowledgeable in this area and throw around technical terms, molecules, half lives, drug schemes, test scheduling, dose scheduling, all kinds of stuff that aren't yet in the universe of figure skating fan boards. I got a clue before last summer's Olympics when Shelby Houlihan got an 8-year ban for nandrolone. She argued that she ate a beef burrito at a popular Portland food truck, and the burrito contained offal of an uncastrated wild boar. Seriously. CAS said: ummmm no, with very clear reasoning. People are still arguing SH couldn't have doped, incidentally....

 

[zanadude]

it's the suspension which is pretty much the same... they won't deal with what happened before just yet

So there is no chance Valieva will be found "innocent" (as some people are framing this) of anything before this competition. This is just to determine whether or not she should be allowed to compete despite the continuing cloud of suspicion.

 

[4everchan]

So there is no chance Valieva will be found "innocent" (as some people are framing this) of anything before this competition. This is just to determine whether or not she should be allowed to compete despite the continuing cloud of suspicion.

she would have to prove that at a later time I would say. This is what I "understand" from what was relayed in the media. So maybe I am reading it wrong.

 

[flipsydoodle]

Hypothetically, could Eteri's team be banned by other feds from competing in their countries? US evidently has a law on its books whereby Eteri and her team could be prosecuted if doping impacted US athletes. But maybe there's a more simple route.... Could federations simply ban her team? Even if they allowed her athletes, could they ban coaches? Could US do what Australia did to Djokevic and void a visa?
These are hypothetical questions. But if Eteri's team becomes persona non grata in key countries, they would not be able to support their athletes during competitions abroad. This would presumably have the net effect of shutting them down.

I imagine there are several well-known Russians in the skating community who are rubbing their hands "Gotcha!" at what's going down... Was Kosto's reputational "laziness" and unwillingness to do a lot of program repetitions really a reflection of unwillingness to take things in unmarked boxes? Queen Tukt... I have a feeling she's smart enough to have been fairly certain all along, especially since she had that experience with meldonium and that year where she couldn't lose. And then there's Petrenko, who had to suffer certain humiliation when his star skaters couldn't do without Eteri and went running back to her.
Wasn't there a "hot Sergei" somewhere in the mix? I wonder what he might be saying to himself. Think of all the rival coaches, coaches who've had their skaters poached, coaches who haven't been able to get their skaters onto teams...

 

[Scott512]

To be honest, if this young girl is found to innocent in these allegations, yes I will most definitely will watch her skate. With me, it’s not personal, it’s just that I like fair play.

It would take months for her to be found innocent the question now is does she skate in the latest competition? She has no parents there she's 15 years old she has no lawyer sir it's very concerning how she's been treated.

 

[Amei]

We don't know for sure Sample A wasn't tested for 6 weeks. Maybe a result was returned in a few days. The positive test that delayed the team medal ceremony may be Sample B. We don't know that either.

Based on post #1 the ITA statement suggests that sample B has not been tested, it seems like Valieva has to request it be tested. Which is interesting, if sample B hasn't been tested it seems like there is no argument that Sample A got contaminated when it was tested. *Below is the section out of the ITA statement for reference.

"The proceedings on the merits of the apparent anti-doping rule violation, including the athlete’s right to request the analysis of the B-sample, will be pursued by RUSADA in due course."

 

[Scott512]

We don't know for sure Sample A wasn't tested for 6 weeks. Maybe a result was returned in a few days. The positive test that delayed the team medal ceremony may be Sample B. We don't know that either.

Very good points the bottom line is we do not know a lot of speculating is going on.

Whatever CAS decides I will go with because they have almost 7 hours of discussion is the day to figure out which way to go. The thing I want to know now if she is allowed to skate will the ioc still go through with their suspension and possibly a very lengthy suspension after the competition?

 

[PyeongChang2018]

Based on post #1 the ITA statement suggests that sample B has not been tested, it seems like Valieva has to request it be tested. Which is interesting, if sample B hasn't been tested it seems like there is no argument that Sample A got contaminated when it was tested. *Below is the section out of the ITA statement for reference.

I doubt, at this point in time, we'd be privy to the knowledge that Valieva has requested the B sample, hypothetically-speaking

 

[Amei]

It would take months for her to be found innocent the question now is does she skate in the latest competition? She has no parents there she's 15 years old she has no lawyer sir it's very concerning how she's been treated.

She does have a lawyer or legal team there

https://m.sports.ru/figure-skating/...a.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=figures

 

[Scott512]

She does have a lawyer or legal team there

https://m.sports.ru/figure-skating/...a.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=figures

It sounds like this girl has good legal representation that has a lot of experience dealing with WADA.

Thanks for the article.

 

[Scott512]

Based on post #1 the ITA statement suggests that sample B has not been tested, it seems like Valieva has to request it be tested. Which is interesting, if sample B hasn't been tested it seems like there is no argument that Sample A got contaminated when it was tested. *Below is the section out of the ITA statement for reference.

Is that bad news for KV? Why wouldn't they demand the B sample to be tested? Because if she test positive with the B sample her Olympics are over?

Well she has to listen to what the adults are saying.

 

[mrrice]

Perhaps it's also got to do with the arena being so empty. I thought Tokyo Olympics was understated, but Beijing feels even more emptier than that, even though I believe they have let comparatively more number of crowds in. Maybe it's the indoor nature of Figure skating. It just does not feel the same as the previous experiences.

I think COVID is still at play here. Even though I could afford it, I didn't even consider going to Nationals. The mask mandate has been lifted in my area but, I still wear a mask when I go out in public. I think it will be a while before we see crowded indoor events.

 

[discodisco]

At this point I can see that many countries would be happy if 90% of the score was artistic and 10% technical (with rules like allowing only 3 triple jumps in programs and only double jumps). I know, it sounds absurd, but even in this scenario I can see girls like Kamila standing out on the field.

Sigh... I wish PCS actually meant something. Compare Nathan Chen getting such high PCS and skating skills marks. Crazy. You're telling me that his skating skills are as good as Patrick Chan? That's flipping insane. What is the point of developing excellent skating skills and blade control when they're worth less than a double axel difference?!

The Eteri girls do NOT have solid skating skills. Kamila is better than the others, but watch the scraping blade skills and muscled jumps. Watch, for example, Valieva on her combinations. Amazing jump, RESET and SWING whole body into the combination. No flow, often landed on the flat, no running edge, jumps impossible to do without massive prerotation and crazy muscled body swing.

Contrast that, for example to (eg) Osmond. Cp. the height, speed, running edge, flow, etc.

Now, I know we're talking about PCS in general. Eteri skaters typically cover up poor blade skills with excessive amounts of extensions, and scratchy turns.

Judges need to QUIT marking in a tunnel. They should realize that it's totally fine (and the RIGHT thing to do) to be willing to give a skater super strong technical marks, while at the same realizing they have crappy skating skills and components.

It frustrates me to see the top men separated often by 10, 20, 30, or even 40 points in technical scores, yet only a point or two in PCS. Where is the incentive to have Jason Brown-level choreography, or develop Patrick Chan level skating skills? There SHOULD be.

Judges should be willing to give a skater with top 3 technical scores PCS's below the top 10 if necessary.

All that to say that, no, the Eteri girls would NOT be winning non-jumping competitions if skating skills were rewarded as they should be.

 

[Bentley]

Sorry but this stinks to high heaven. Sitting on a drug test, wow, just wow.
I can see only one reason and that is to discredit when it has the most impact.
If she can't skate, I am so done with the Olympics and Ice skating.
Beating up on a 15 year old as some of the News Media are doing is
just shameful