Kwan Injured - Pulling out of Cambell's & Skate America... Life is NOT Fair

[mzheng]

What contract? .

Now, I saw it from MKF that it made official in public. She signed new endorsement with Coca Cola a few weeks back......See what I mean in another thread that the new endorsements kept come in these days even without winning that much these days?

 

[julietvalcouer]

That's the sport of figure skating! Each skater is trying to out do the other skater with better and bigger jumps. The fact is that if they don't, they are left behind. Michelle has always been the number one skater and winning all the competitions, in order for the younger skaters to catch up and pass her, that's what they have to do, bigger and better jumps. How else are they going to win? They can't just sit back and do nothing and wait for somebody else to make a mistake for them to win. Figure skating has gone from doing figures to tripple-tripples and probably quads. It depend on how far these skaters wants to push their bodies in order to win and sometimes at all costs.

Easy solution to that. Ban the big jumps. Just absolutely forbid the women trying them and cap how many rotations the men can do absolutely.

What requires more real talent and work? Putting together a balanced program, with fine edges, a sense of the music, cleanly-executed jumps that flow with the program--or skateskateskateHUGEJUMPBARELYHUNGONTOskateskateskateJUMP! A lot of the new skaters are so focused on jumping they're letting basic skills, like maintaining a good edge, slide or disappear completely.

Take the choice out of the skaters' hands. If necessary, bring back figures or something similar to force them to take time and perfect their skating skills, and wait on doing nothing but jump after jump until they're truly ready. Then there won't BE the problem of being 'over the hill', because there is nothing inherently less fit about a woman in her mid-twenties. God knows my body can take far more abuse now at 27 than it could when I was fourteen. The reason skaters break down in their twenties, or develop even worse problems (Irina) is that they spent the years when their bodies were doing MASSIVE amounts of growing and pounded themselves far too hard. I'd love to see radiographs of their skeletons to see what sort of stress marks they've managed to etch into bone.

The federations have to take responsibility, or eventually, like Joe says, it's just going to be a child beauty pagent with skating as their talent. And I completely agree, btw, that the teeny teens can't do 'woman' when they skate. And there's something creepy about it when they try. Some people ARE weirded out by watching underdeveloped girls try to be sensual, and you know what? I can't blame them.

 

[Tonichelle]

There should be two stages in figure skating, the first stage for the teenagers and the little jumping beans, the second stage for the more mature and artistic skaters.

for the most part there is
Eligible
and
Professional

 

[Doggygirl]

for the most part there is
Eligible
and
Professional

Well put. :agree:

 

[sk8er1964]

I think this injury brings into focus -- yet again -- the fact that the human body can take only so much pounding.

Tara tore up her hip joints with endless reps of triple jumps in her brief career. Michelle has done just as many, spread out over a decade of competition. Yagudin did quad after quad until his forced retirement at age 22. Plushenko (23) is hanging on for one last hurrah before his knees are gone altogether.

In the olden days, before triple/triples and quads were de rigueur, skaters fulfilled their Olympic dreams as teenagers, then signed up for the Ice Capades. Maybe what we need is an age limit for the Olympics. No one over 21can go. When you hit 21, you graduate from the “eligible” to the Masters class.

IMO, age is not the issue - it's the unreasonable expectation for pounding the body to achieve the 3/3's and quads that is the problem. I think CoP is a step in the right direction, but give certain items less value and we'll see fewer injuries.

At my rink, we have a couple of higher level (ie JGP and equavilent) dance teams. Guess what they're all practicing? Beilmans. Highly scored and very hard on the average body. Can we say injuries? Because most people cannot easily do Beilmans and the dancers that are forcing their bodies to do them are going to be the Taras of the dance world.

Reward good skating, good solid jumps, and good technique. I'd rather see 10 beautiful spirals than one decent beilman and nine ugly attempts, or a dance program with multiple contortions.

 

[mzheng]

But for all the other sports, it's the Olympics that are important. (Well, except for team sports like baseball and basketball, which as far as I'm concerned don't belong there anyway--I cheered when baseball got dumped.) ?

How about Tennis? No one remember who is the last Olympics Tennis champion. But the 4 grand slam champion, the fans remember.

I agree both of your saying. It makes sense to seperate them to two different class, and by all means they are two different class/group there.

 

[hockeyfan228]

There are many individual sports, such as ski jumping where the Olympic gold medal is an important achievement, but the annual World Cup titles are as prestigious, because they reward an entire season of high placements and wins. Also, it was pretty incredible to see Sven Hannawald sweep the Four Hills ski jump tournament for the first time ever in 2001-2 -- four wins in four events over the course of a little over a week in four different occasions. He didn't win an Olympic gold medal in 2002, but he overpowered the same field during the events.

 

[Jaana]

How about Tennis? No one remember who is the last Olympics Tennis champion. But the 4 grand slam champion, the fans remember.

I agree both of your saying. It makes sense to seperate them to two different class, and by all means they are two different class/group there.

I believe that in tennis it is different than in figure skating. In tennis the Wimbledon title is the most prestigious one. In figure skating the Olympic gold medal is the highest and most prestigious achievement an athlete can win, and as such the definite goal for all top skaters. The same applies to ski jumping, I would say. For those athletes that are not quite in the top class, even the possibility of being able to compete in Olympics is a dream.

 

[Mathman]

In figure skating the Olympic gold medal is the highest and most prestigious achievement an athlete can win, and as such the definite goal for all top skaters.

I believe that this is one of the things that is holding the sport back. The most popular and successful sports do not tie themselves to the Olympic spectacle.

If I am not mistaken, the Olympic event that draws the biggest television audience world wide is the opening ceremonies. Bands playing, flags waving, people marching in their national uniforms.

The actual sporting events? Not so much interest there.

Mathman

 

[millie]

for the most part there is
Eligible
and
Professional

I understand that there is an Eligible and Professional levels in figure skating. We were talking hypothetical about what the age level should be in figure skating. The younger level doing the big jumps and the more mature doing the artistic side of figure skating. Now, by the time they reach their twenties, most of them, their bodies can't take the wear and tear that it could take when they were in their teens. Like Joe said "the Shirley Temples and the Sophis Lorens".

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If I am not mistaken, the Olympic event that draws the biggest television audience world wide is the opening ceremonies. Bands playing, flags waving, people marching in their national uniforms.

The actual sporting events? Not so much interest there.Mathman

Trust me MM, if there were no interest in the sporting events, the networks would cancel them for the soap operas. I for one, love the skiing events, followed by the bobsled and that crazy luge. I don't get to see these much during the non olympic years, so don't give the networks any ideas of cancelling:disapp:

When you think about the skating events, you have to admit, they are very carefully planned for the sponsors - a saturday evening when all those people who do not date anymore are home sipping their Pinots and Griggios and ready to watch 5 of the last six ladies and 4 of the last six young men unless, of course, some Americans happen to be at the bottom of the last six.

Can you imagine that same sponsor(s) taping the last 3 innings of the worlds series for brevity sake with various fluffs about the good work the players do in the poverty stricken world?

Yeah, Figure Skating is a grown up sport.

Joe

 

[Johar]

Did/was Kwan trying to learn a triple-triple?

I hate to see so many skaters injured.

 

[wvgal57]

Clarification

Irina's illness has nothing whatsover to do with her training habits! Churg Strauss Syndrome is an autoimmune disorder and is not caused by overtraining, improper training or the physical exertion of training. Stress can bring her out of remission but the same can be said with any illness.

Based on her longevity in the sport it rather seems Irina has quite good training habit. I know of only two injuries, neither one keeping her out of competitions, one in 98 with her back and last year a knee injury sustained while training a new entry into her double axle.

 

[Mathman]

Joe, I agree with your point of view. I like bobsledding and the rest, too. My favorite summer Olympic sport is kayaking. (" Why? I like boat races" -- Prince Chulalongkorn).

But I can't help contrasting the fortunes of the sports that hitch their wagons to the Olympic star with others which, by hook or by crook, have managed to become mainstream. Where does figure skating fit in?

In the 1930s nobody gave a hoot about professional football in the United States. Pro football meant a few washed up college stars who got together and went on a barnstorming tour playing against the local boys in Dubuque, Iowa.

Somehow they managed to leverage that into the National Football League. Every week there are 16 sold-out games in 80,000 seat stadiums at $60 a pop. Do the math, LOL. And that doesn't count all the beer they sell plus the multibillion dollar television contracts.

I don't know whether there is a lesson here for figure skating or not.

Actually, the ideas that Doggygirl has been talking about on some of the other threads, about developing figure skating as a niche sport through the Internet, may turn out to be figure skating's best shot.

Mathman

 

[Tonichelle]

I understand that there is an Eligible and Professional levels in figure skating. We were talking hypothetical about what the age level should be in figure skating. The younger level doing the big jumps and the more mature doing the artistic side of figure skating. Now, by the time they reach their twenties, most of them, their bodies can't take the wear and tear that it could take when they were in their teens. Like Joe said "the Shirley Temples and the Sophis Lorens".

I understood what was being said

but so many say that pro ranks is just for "older has beens" who can't do the jumps anymore and "must" rely on choreography.

which is, essentially, what your hypothetical levels are... and we already have that system

 

[kyla2]

WV Gal

The fact that Irina's illness is a a result of an autoimmune disorder doesn't mean that jumping won't make it considerably worse, especially if one of the symptoms is pain in her legs. Irina is a tough competitor; I think we would all acknowledge that. But don't tell me that she has never been injured as a result of the triple-triples she has been landing because it isn't believeable.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm not a doctor nor will I pretend to be. I don't know Irina's diagnosis and treatment from her doctor.

I do have a friend with Lupus who claims that it makes her tired frequently.

Joe

 

[Piel]

I have vasculitis. It is an autoimmune disorder. Autoimmune responses can be triggered by several things. Mine was caused by repeated trauma to the blood vessals from deep vein thrombosis. It can be triggered by any repeated trauma or by other diseases OR can be a symptom of another disease. While Irina's was caused by her CS the trauma from repeated jumping could also be a contributing factor, IMO. My hat is off to Irina for being able to bounce back from hers and train at the level she does.

 

[R.D.]

What is Lupus?

Yes- Irina, now we're talking about a serious competitor. It's incredible the way she was able to bounce back and not let her sickness end her career (or even her life in extreme case). Not only has she been able to bounce back, but she's now BETTER THAN EVER. Now that's quite an inspiring story.

Kwan is a great competitor too, but she has indirectly allowed her constant winning to get to her head and now she's stagnating. Not everyone can stay great forever, but maybe a poster here is right when he/she says that Kwan's body can't take any more "pounding". Maybe we have seen the best from her, and it's been a good 11 years for her and her fans.

Now, it would be nice to see if kwan can keep up with the young ones and challenge for an Olympic medal, but I don't know- this injury of hers is very telling. I hope she can recover and get her confidence back and get out there again. This would be a season to remember if everyone brings their A-game to the OLYs.

 

[show 42]

I believe that this is one of the things that is holding the sport back. The most popular and successful sports do not tie themselves to the Olympic spectacle.

Exactly, Mathman..........I have been saying that for years......42