"trip-half-double axle" would be counted as a jump sequence because the half hop between two jumps. Under CoP the points of jump sequence is multiplied by 0.8 less than the combo. Unless a double axle imediately follow a triple. otherwise IMO not worth to try. Her 3/3 will be there when needed this year. IMO, She is pacing herself this year. Last year she pulled out 3/3 from her program last couple of weeks leading into the worlds because she was doing too much....
Kwan prepares to perform to Bolero
- Thread starter bronxgirl
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- Jul 11, 2003
Mzheng - My question is what are these jumps? I think the triple could be any jump except a triple axel. What you call the half hop, I believe is a half loop jump. It is a take off on the back outside edge (as in a loop jump) but after one rotation instead of landing on the back outside edge as in the take off, one lands on the other foot and in a back inside edge.mzheng said:
It is not impossible to do an axel from this back inside position but considering it is meant to be a sequence, it will not flow very well.
I remember Irina doing a 3 lutz, half loop, 3 salchow. That flows.
Joe
Since a triple always landed on a right back out side edge, right? So you have to tackle in some step/hop to switch to left out side edge into a double axel. But I guess a 2a/3T is doable theoritically. I heard Angela is practicing 2a/triple, but not sure if there is step between.
Double axel to triple toe is a great looking combination. Of those I mentioned (Zayak and Thomas) Zayaks was the best, but I can't believe I missed out Midori 
She did it from a vrey young age - 10 or 11 IIRC. She definitely landed it in a gala in Japan in 1981 when she was 11. It was also in her 1983/84 World Juniors LP and her Senior debut LP at 1984 Worlds.
I'm also a bit confused on the combination that sk8m8 mentions. If you land a triple there is no need to do an extra hop of anything to get into double axel. From the rbo edge just step up to the lfo into the double axel. Maybe the poster was referring to the combo's that Tara did such as 2x 1/2 loop 3sal and 3t 1/2 loop 3sal. Maria B also did the 3t 1/2 loop 3sal.
She did it from a vrey young age - 10 or 11 IIRC. She definitely landed it in a gala in Japan in 1981 when she was 11. It was also in her 1983/84 World Juniors LP and her Senior debut LP at 1984 Worlds.I'm also a bit confused on the combination that sk8m8 mentions. If you land a triple there is no need to do an extra hop of anything to get into double axel. From the rbo edge just step up to the lfo into the double axel. Maybe the poster was referring to the combo's that Tara did such as 2x 1/2 loop 3sal and 3t 1/2 loop 3sal. Maria B also did the 3t 1/2 loop 3sal.
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- Jul 11, 2003
mzheng said:
I still don't get it. You are correct about a triple landing on the right back outside edge. I'm not sure what a tackle is but if you step/hop for switching to a left outside edge into a double axel, you will be doing an axel to the "other" side. Not easy unless you are adept at jumping in both directions.
Angela is one of the best skaters during practice sessions of competition.
Joe
OK, I got a little confused too. Now. But any how, my understanding is between triple (any triples) and double axel you must insert at least one step/hop between for the reason, any triple is landed backward but axel take off forward edge, thus skate must insert some step between to change from backward to forward.
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- Jul 11, 2003
You're getting there, Mzheng, lolmzheng said:
The triple landing on a bo edge is correct
The step/hop, a most mysterious move in figure skating
I would love to see a picture of that move. If it exists it must land on the back outside edge to keep with the flow of going into an Axel.I believe the step/hop is a piece of footwork, and so, I do not think one could call it a combo of three jumps. If you leave out the step/hop, one can easily see a triple to an Axel in combination. If you add a half loop jump after the triiple and then do a double salchow after half loop, one has a triple/single/double.
If you see this move at any time, please call my attention to the step/hop.
Cheers - Joe
I recall that Kwan did a triple something(loop?)-falling leaf(half turn "hop" from RBO edge to forward)-double toe sequence in her 1998 free skate. Perhaps the connecting half jump between the triple and her double axel is a falling leaf? The falling leaf usually lands forward on the left toepick (for CCW rotators), so maybe she then pushes to a RFI edge and steps to the LFO axel takeoff? (just a guess! 
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- Sep 24, 2003
Sylvia said:I recall that Kwan did a triple something(loop?)-falling leaf(half turn "hop" from RBO edge to forward)-double toe sequence in her 1998 free skate. Perhaps the connecting half jump between the triple and her double axel is a falling leaf? The falling leaf usually lands forward on the left toepick (for CCW rotators), so maybe she then pushes to a RFI edge and steps to the LFO axel takeoff? (just a guess!
When she was having trouble with the triple toe loop due to the stress fracture she suffered December 1997, she switched the triple toe/triple toe for a triple loop hop double toe loop...then a solo triple loop later on in the programme.
Joesitz said:You're getting there, Mzheng, lol
I believe the step/hop is a piece of footwork, and so, I do not think one could call it a combo of three jumps. If you leave out the step/hop, one can easily see a triple to an Axel in combination. If you add a half loop jump after the triiple and then do a double salchow after half loop, one has a triple/single/double.
Well, I believe under CoP there is no assigned points to sigle, half loop/hop. I believe anything inserted between triple and 2a can't be more than two steps? otherwise it is no a jump serials either. It would be defined 2 seperate jump passes.
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- Jul 11, 2003
OK guys - I give up. I have no idea what the 'Hop" is!!!
When I skated, there was a bunny hop, but I do not think that is what we are talking about. A step is not a jump.
Interesting point Sylvia made about MK doing a triple loop into a falling leaf into a double axel. Wow! OK, but she would have to do an inside three turn after the falling leaf to prepare for the axel.
Best connecting jump, imo, is the half loop which I believe could be executed as a double half loop or a triple half loop. Why not?
Joe
When I skated, there was a bunny hop, but I do not think that is what we are talking about. A step is not a jump.
Interesting point Sylvia made about MK doing a triple loop into a falling leaf into a double axel. Wow! OK, but she would have to do an inside three turn after the falling leaf to prepare for the axel.
Best connecting jump, imo, is the half loop which I believe could be executed as a double half loop or a triple half loop. Why not?
Joe
Joe, I think people are using the generic "hop" for both half-loop and 3-turn, so no wonder you're confused!
Eg: Plushy's 3A-hop(half loop)-3F or Michelle's 3T-hop(3 Turn)-2T from Lyra
"Best connecting jump, imo, is the half loop which I believe could be executed as a double half loop or a triple half loop. Why not? " from Joesitz....
Joe, maybe my lights are off and I am misunderstanding above, but wouldn't a double half-loop end up being a single loop jump??? And a triple half loop = 1.5 loop? I remember Toller et al doing 1.5 Flips into 2As like 30 years ago so yes, it's all possible, but the training time required to learn this (and, even worse in my mind anyway - landing jumps going forward) doesn't really make it feasible with the emphasis on perfect triples and quads.
As Floskate mentioned, Midori was the first lady to do 2A-3T. I have her on tape doing this combo - usual Midori (tiny wrap, but perfect otherwise with height and flow) except she was about 10 at the time.
I think 2A-3L would be a nice combo - especially from someone like Irina who generally has a high and effortless 2A and a powerful 3L.
Just some thoughts...
Eg: Plushy's 3A-hop(half loop)-3F or Michelle's 3T-hop(3 Turn)-2T from Lyra
"Best connecting jump, imo, is the half loop which I believe could be executed as a double half loop or a triple half loop. Why not? " from Joesitz....
Joe, maybe my lights are off and I am misunderstanding above, but wouldn't a double half-loop end up being a single loop jump??? And a triple half loop = 1.5 loop? I remember Toller et al doing 1.5 Flips into 2As like 30 years ago so yes, it's all possible, but the training time required to learn this (and, even worse in my mind anyway - landing jumps going forward) doesn't really make it feasible with the emphasis on perfect triples and quads.
As Floskate mentioned, Midori was the first lady to do 2A-3T. I have her on tape doing this combo - usual Midori (tiny wrap, but perfect otherwise with height and flow) except she was about 10 at the time.
I think 2A-3L would be a nice combo - especially from someone like Irina who generally has a high and effortless 2A and a powerful 3L.
Just some thoughts...
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- Sep 24, 2003
Joesitz said:OK guys - I give up. I have no idea what the 'Hop" is!!!
When I skated, there was a bunny hop, but I do not think that is what we are talking about. A step is not a jump.
Interesting point Sylvia made about MK doing a triple loop into a falling leaf into a double axel. Wow! OK, but she would have to do an inside three turn after the falling leaf to prepare for the axel.
Best connecting jump, imo, is the half loop which I believe could be executed as a double half loop or a triple half loop. Why not?
Joe
Sorry joe...I didn't mean to confuse LOL. I meant that she would do a triple rittberger, three turn...double toe.
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- Aug 7, 2003
Actually a half loop turns a full revoloution in the air. The ony difference is that it lands on the inside edge of the opposite foot (LBI instead of RBO). Here's the explaniation from s8stuff
http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_j_halfloop.htm
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- Jul 11, 2003
BFS - What I meant by a double half loop jump was by the definition that the half loop jump is one full turn in the air, and for me, it follows that 2 turns in the air and still landing on the 'wrong' foot would be double half loop jump. But then, maybe my aritmetic is wrong. 
Joe
Joe
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- Jul 26, 2003
Thanks for the information. I can't wait to see Michelle skate to Bolero. Her interpretation will most definitely be Kwanderful and awesome! 
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- Aug 7, 2003
I was just watching an old video of Michelle's programs from 94/95, and she did a 2a combination in both her short and long. it was only a 2a/2t, and it was 10 years ago, but she has done 2A combos before.
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