Kwan, Slutskaya to follow in Cohen's direction? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Kwan, Slutskaya to follow in Cohen's direction?

If my posts were a published document, I would be obliged to provide direct sources, Spun SIlver, but as this is an anonymous board, I do not owe you anything. You can probably find all these sources yourself, if you take the time and trouble to do internet searches (BTW, if you use the right search technique, GOOGLE will bring up even years-old discussion board passages).
I believe the ethical burden rests with the one casting aspersions to be able to back up his or her statements.

chuckm said:
When Sasha was training under Robin Wagner, she wrote in her journal the summer of 2004 how she had vacationed in Hawaii, then went to the rink in Connecticut to train by herself (away from Robin). Apparently she didn't do much in the way of training, because she skated very poorly at Campbell's 2004. Shortly after that, she withdrew from all her GP events due to a back injury.

Then in December 2004, she issued an announcement that she was going back to California to train with John Nicks. Cohen said (in the announcement) that she liked Robin very much, but that 'my skating was terrible' (more or less blaming that on Robin) which then prompted a rebuttal interview from Robin. Robin said that Sasha was resistant to advice from her coach that she upgrade her jumping skills, and said that during the summer Sasha had avoided training altogether (verified by Sasha's journal) and so Sasha was not prepared for the coming season.

I don't see the "terrible skating" or Robin-blame in Sasha's journal and the press statements are not available on her website. Query: in your opinion, should serious teenage skaters not take summer vacations with their families? Another query: do other serious skaters not do endorsements, photoshoots, charity work, and spend time with family? The journal shows Sasha practicing the quad with Robin over the summer. A back injury may have affected her 3 falls at Campbells where she got the bronze:

www.usoc.com - 11/3/04 - Olympic website said:
Shortly after the Campbell’s event Cohen flew to Chicago, Ill., to consult with Dr. Westin, an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in sports medicine, whom she has seen since she injured her back in 2001. It is believed that her current back problems may be related to the injury she sustained in 2001 — an injury that forced her to withdraw from the 2001 State Farm U.S. Championships. In his assessment Dr. Westin performed a full examination including an MRI on Cohen's back. He diagnosed that Cohen reinjured her back, causing severe back strain. He recommended she skate with reduced multi-revolution jumping for four weeks and take part in intense physical therapy to strengthen her lower back.

Sasha's journal said:
[June 19, 2004] I just got back from a great vacation [in Italy, FWIW] today... I am going to New York next week and begin training with Robin.

[July 12] I have spent the past week training with Robin and getting my body back into competitive shape. Robin started to work a little bit with my program, I started to get back all my jumps and build up my stroking and running. The best way is not to get frustrated and keep getting stronger. Summer is a different process of skating. I’m just trying to get my body back to where it was.... I’ve had some good time off. I think it’s good to have a good mental and physical approach so I’m fresh when training comes around.

[July 15, 2004] I’ve been practicing the quad, and I’m starting to get the rhythm.Robin and I started on the harness, and I’ve had some good attempts on the ice. I’m not sure whether to put it into my programs yet. We’ll see how it goes.When Robin and I started practicing it on the harness it went well quickly.

[August 6] It has been a busy two weeks. I’ve finally settled on my new costumes; we’re setting up a new photo shoot; we’re in the moving process and living out of boxes; both of my new programs have been choreographed and Robin and I are working hard on that; I’m proofing my book that comes out in a few months; and practicing hard to get back into competitive shape while learning all the new programs.... Things are going real well with Robin and me. Our schedules have been laid out and I will definitely be ready for the first competition. I probably won’t be in peak shape but will be for Nationals and Worlds.]

As for the public statements about Robin:

From Sasha's journal said:
[Dec. 22, 2004] I have moved back to California, where I began my skating career and am training with my former coach, Mr. John Nicks. I will no longer be coached by Robin.

I will be training with Mr. Nicks through the U.S. Nationals at Portland, Oregon in mid-January. After the last several years training on the east coast, I have come to the realization that California is my home and it is time for me to return.Working with Robin for the past year has been a wonderful experience for me. She is a great coach and friend. Robin is supportive of my decision to move home to California to be back with my friends and family. I wish her nothing but the best in the future.... I think my decision to move back to California will improve the quality of my life, which will in turn benefit my skating.

[Jan 13 2005] I have seen so much change in my skating since I’ve moved home. Mr. Nicks’ biggest influence is he has given me more confidence in my skating. He told me not to worry about my jumping. Just concentrate on the whole. I have had very good practices and run-throughs with my programs before coming to Portland. In the two years since I’ve been away from Mr. Nicks I have made a tremendous amount of improvement and now I’m able to use more of what he’s got to offer.

With reference to her not practicing at the Olympics, here is Eurosport's take on it:

Eurosport.com said:
A day after squeezing into the lead past Russian favourite Irina Slutskaya in the women's short programme, Cohen decided to skip training at the Palavela rink. It was the second day running the 21-year-old Californian did not turn up for a scheduled practice session. As the move did her no harm on Tuesday, when she chose to have a lie in while most of her rivals were going through their paces, Cohen was again nowhere to be seen. "She has trained very hard, stamina is not a problem with her," Cohen's coach John Nicks told reporters. "We just thought it would be a better strategy to rest a bit."

Cohen was the last of 29 skaters to take to the ice on Tuesday and her dazzling routine allowed her to nudge ahead of Slutskaya by just 0.03 of a point. The late night outing seemed to have also taken its toll on the U.S. champion, who has never won a major international event. "She didn't sleep very well last night. She was tired," said Nicks. "We thought it would be better for her to be rested... and try to be energised for (Thursday) night."

I really don't have the time or desire to do a full-length analysis of Sasha's career; however, I think that her long string of successive podium finishes suggests that her training habits are pretty damn good.

If her training habits are going to be analyzed then her record of injuries certainly needs to be taken into account.

The fact that she has few GOLD medals is a mystery that I think many skating fans want to find a reason for. To me the best answer is mental issues (self-confidence, ability to handle pressure, competitive spirit, etc). She, her coaches, and TV commentators have repeatedly said she jumps fine in practice. Lack of training does not seem to be the problem.
 
^^^ ok.. now that's what I call the ultimate rebuttal post... so there.

:bow: Spun Silver... you are my hero... :bow:

Heck, now I want Sasha to come back & skate for gold... (look out the sky is falling... the fat lady has sung... and crow is damn tasty...:laugh: :laugh: )
 
Many of the Tarasova interviews were translated from the Russian on FSU by very reputable posters fluent in both Russian and English. Just because you didn't read them doesn't mean they don't exist or or not truthful.

If you want to find the sources of Tarasova's and Wagner's comments about Sasha, YOU will have to do the work to search the internet. I have no "ethical" obligation to do it for you because you are too lazy to try.
 
Good grief, you really don't like being questioned, do you? Any more aspersions, while you're in the mood? :sheesh:
 
Many of the Tarasova interviews were translated from the Russian on FSU by very reputable posters fluent in both Russian and English. Just because you didn't read them doesn't mean they don't exist or or not truthful.

If you want to find the sources of Tarasova's and Wagner's comments about Sasha, YOU will have to do the work to search the internet. I have no "ethical" obligation to do it for you because you are too lazy to try.

Ok. This whole argument simply isn't fair... Sasha was coached by two strong-willed coaches. She didn't get the results she was looking for and she fired them. So? What does that prove? They are the help after all... I'm a superstar sports marketer (and a legend in my own mind...I'm so freakin' fabulous. Its all about me - wow, I sound like Robin - let me stop) but if I lose a client - is it me or the client? My story is always its the client. No biggie. That's human nature - I'm not gonna let one bad relationship mess up my rep... where's the fun in that?

Even when skaters & coaches split and don't publicly discuss the whys & whatfors skating fans aren't happy then... I can say I've contributed to many a 20 page thread about the whole Michelle & Carroll split (you knew I'd work her name in somewhere...) and we don't know that story either... and we never will.

As for searching for things on-line to justify one comment... I'm with Spun Silver - who has that kinda time? You say lazy, I say too busy... Its all good. Breath people...
 
You know, coaches and skaters will say things in public that are relatively "PC" and drained of any heated comments. That Wagner/Cohen interview of 05 stuck out like a rather sore thumb.

You guys may think differently but I tend to think that the translations, articles, reports and impressions of close people paint a better picture of the situation than a few sound bytes given by the skater herself or her coach in a mild interview. Of course they're going to say everything's fine!

But that's my take on it. I still side more with chuckm than I do with SS re. thoughts on Cohen and her training.
 
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IShe, her coaches, and TV commentators have repeatedly said she jumps fine in practice. Lack of training does not seem to be the problem.
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In 2003 I was fortunate to go to Skate Canada and Sasha was then being coached by Tatianna. I don't know if you know how it works in practices but there are about 5-6 skaters on the ice. They practice and are being coached, so they will start and stop, then confer with their coach. Each skater then performs their program while the other 5 skaters are still on the ice. The rink is not full but there are quite a few fans there watching them. Tatianna is very motherly but very strong in what she wants her skaters to do. I saw many praises from Tatianna but she also made Sasha do things over and over. When it was Sasha's turn to do her program, there was so much excitement and she was absolutely awesome and spectacular!! The fans gave her a standing ovation. So in response to the above quote, I have seen this awesome skater and know what she's capable of firsthand. Why she couldn't do the same in competition is beyond me. It doesn't bother me like it does others, I just love watching her.

Dee
 
Then it seems like the fans were right and it's a "head" issue. At least INITIALLY it was. Then I think that problem compounded with not being prepared enough did her in even further. Too bad, she had her chance.
 
You guys are a trip. Sasha had a great career. She rocks. Sometimes you win, sometimes the other guy does.

Now that she is moved on, how long are we going to pick her bones with the same-old, same-old analyses?
 
but dare I say it...it's "adorable" (I use that term loosely) the way some posters are defending their princess. :rofl:
 
Well of course they do. What is the point of hanging around a figure skating board if you don't have a favorite to defend and cheer for?

As for me, when do I plan to stop protecting, defending and cheering for my gal?

Many a new day will dawn...

Many a red sun will set...

MANY A BLUE MOON WILL SHINE BEFORE I DO!!!! :)

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20051211/kwan_61390.jpg :agree:
 
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If I may issue a rebuttal to this statement:

I really don't have the time or desire to do a full-length analysis of Sasha's career; however, I think that her long string of successive podium finishes suggests that her training habits are pretty damn good.

If you have a certain amount of talent in something, it naturally comes easier to you. In other words, someone without that talent can practice and practice and train and train for hours, days, months, even YEARS and still not become as good as you are.

I think Cohen had that sort of talent in Figure Skating. It was pretty obvious when I watched her. The only thing she had problems with were the jumps. THAT's what she really needed to work on if she wanted to be successful. I think everything else seemed to come easy to her. It's pretty evident how fast she rose up in the ranks that this was the case.

I think the way she skated the past two years was a pretty good indication of either poor training or inadequate preparation. The jumps killed her- everything else at that point was simply muscle memory. I'm willing to bet she doesn't need to spend that much time a day at a rink to keep up the other skating skills. What required actual work on her part never got fixed, though.

remember that this is only my impression and I'm not intending to state this as truth.
 
I think that her long string of successive podium finishes suggests that her training habits are pretty damn good.

But they weren't the finishes that she wanted. She wanted to be World and Olympic champion, but her jumps failed her and kept her off the top step.
 
Sasha never "had" a triple lutz/triple toe or a quad sal. Her one attempt at a 4S at Skate America 2001 failed and so disrupted her FS that she never tried it again. After many tries at the 3Z3T in the 2002-2003 season, she landed ONE at Worlds 2003, and got so rattled that she fell on her next jump, a triple toe, and then toppled out of a spin. She finished off the podium, and never tried a 3Z3T again.

Sasha landed a 3z3t at the quali at 2003 Worlds and skated perfectly after that. Too bad we can't say the same for her LP performance...
 
Cohen's 3/3 is just like Buttle's quad. I don't see any practical sense to argue about. She was given full of chances and still coudn't reach the top.
 
Bottom Line is she will be remembered for quite a while whatever her medals show. Her basic skating skills were not the best during her career but did improve by 2006. However, her WOW spirals suited her style of skating and was the stronghold in her career, loved by judges, fans and all viewers.

I doubt there is gold in her future, but I am eager to see her in LA Worlds. I think everyone is eager to see her competively again.

As to the Olys, I do not think she has to qualify for the USA team. There is a rule that a podium finish in a previous Olys can be defended automatically. Am I correct?

Joe
 
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