Kwan Test Results

[Joesitz (RIP)]

That one sentence you said..."Win or lose, it's Kwan forever."- it's thinking with that mentality that gets to me.

It shouldn't RD. It's an emotional thing and you can not change emotions. Best you ignore it and get on with your secret favorite and if she wins, no one is going to complain but they will not give up their love for Kwan. Just ask Pat Lipinsky.
Joe

 

[Piel]

That one sentence you said..."Win or lose, it's Kwan forever."- it's thinking with that mentality that gets to me.

RD do you understand what Kwan fans mean by that? Substitute college football....win or lose it's Michigan forever (go Blue). Whether they win or lose these fans are still just as much of a fan. Sergei Grinkov has been dead for how many years now and there are still fans that are crazyabout the guy. I know that I am more of a fan of Michelle Kwan the sports personality than I probably am of her skating because I have always been impressed by the way she has conducted herself.

What do you mean by "that mentality"?

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

You know RD, you have no problem with rooting for the Houston Rockets whether or not if they win or lose, right? It's the same thing for the Kwan mentality. It's just someone's love for a skater. I think you're taking someone's love of an athlete get to you too much.

I understand that a lot of the fanaticism is over the top and I agree that many could tone it down when talking in debates that SHOULD be objective, but you clearly are exaggerating the amount of people doing that. I mean if you go to a Kwan gush thread and get sick with the amount of love they have for her, it's your own damn fault for going to that thread. It's no different from any other skater. I don't go to Sashafans or Irina Slutskaya Fan Forum just to tell them how over the top they're being.

I think you and many other people like lumping Kwan fans into that group just so you can constantly tell them how wrong they are.

 

[Doggygirl]

DG - Not directed to you or anyone in particular. It's just when I was in favor of giving Mao and exception to the Rule, so many had said one can not break the rules.
We now have learned that if a skating official asks a skater in Dance or Pairs for a sample to test for drugs it's ok to have the skater tell them to have a partner to test instead of the one that was asked to. Single skaters can not do that. They must test. I think that's the 'gray' area another poster spoke of. Apparently, the lack of a few months for Mao's eligibility for the Olys was not enough to consider it 'gray'.

I'm not making an argument here. It's just a general statement on behalf of the strict interpretation that some posters gave on the rules of the game. I am pointing out that the gray area is selective.

Joe

My opinion is not selective in this regard. LIke I said before, folks on the podium have had to "pee in the cup" many times, and I don't think Navka deserves a break on this any more than I think anyone else deserves a break on this.

DG

 

[R.D.]

It shouldn't RD. It's an emotional thing and you can not change emotions. Best you ignore it and get on with your secret favorite and if she wins, no one is going to complain but they will not give up their love for Kwan. Just ask Pat Lipinsky.
Joe

Secret favorite? I wish

 

[kyla2]

Emily/Michelle Fans

The reason Emily is even mentioned by Michelle fans is because some people are suggesting Emily should be sent instead becasue she was third at Nationals. We are just making the case for why Michelle should be sent instead. Michelle is the better skater and she has a better chance for a medal of any kind. It's the reality of the situation and not a bash of Emily, and it certainly isn't malicious. Emily has some maturing and work to do.

 

[R.D.]

Secret favorite? I wish

Or maybe not....

What do you mean by "that mentality"?

I'm referring to the need to "rub it in" to everyone's face. But then again, I'm probably overreacting. This is all just too much.

You know RD, you have no problem with rooting for the Houston Rockets whether or not if they win or lose, right? It's the same thing for the Kwan mentality. It's just someone's love for a skater. I think you're taking someone's love of an athlete get to you too much.

I understand that a lot of the fanaticism is over the top and I agree that many could tone it down when talking in debates that SHOULD be objective, but you clearly are exaggerating the amount of people doing that. I mean if you go to a Kwan gush thread and get sick with the amount of love they have for her, it's your own damn fault for going to that thread. It's no different from any other skater. I don't go to Sashafans or Irina Slutskaya Fan Forum just to tell them how over the top they're being.

I think you and many other people like lumping Kwan fans into that group just so you can constantly tell them how wrong they are.

Point taken. But I must take issue with the "Kwan gush thread" thing. I stay OUT of those, so that's clearly not the issue. The issue is when such things occur in non-gush threads. And I hardly ever post at MKF. In fact, I hardly even go there. There's plenty of Kwan news here from her fans anyway. Occasionally I might find something there that wasn't here.

And last- it's not a matter of LIKING to lump Kwan fans into a certain group. It's an unfortunate byproduct of a few making a bad name for the group of "Kwan fans". And I try to be careful not to group all Kwan fans into that category.

It works the other way, too...certain Kwan fans lumping all nonKwans into the "hater" category.

This topic is constantly setting emotions on fire every time it's brought up.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Or maybe not....





I'm referring to the need to "rub it in" to everyone's face. But then again, I'm probably overreacting. This is all just too much.



Point taken. But I must take issue with the "Kwan gush thread" thing. I stay OUT of those, so that's clearly not the issue. The issue is when such things occur in non-gush threads. And I hardly ever post at MKF. In fact, I hardly even go there. There's plenty of Kwan news here from her fans anyway. Occasionally I might find something there that wasn't here.

And last- it's not a matter of LIKING to lump Kwan fans into a certain group. It's an unfortunate byproduct of a few making a bad name for the group of "Kwan fans". And I try to be careful not to group all Kwan fans into that category.

It works the other way, too...certain Kwan fans lumping all nonKwans into the "hater" category.

This topic is constantly setting emotions on fire every time it's brought up.

I understand your point, especially about those who don't like Kwan's skating being lumped into being a hater. I totally understand those who just don't like her skating. But it seems to me that you ONLY single out Kwan fans in Kwan threads, and you've been doing it for a long time. Maybe in Goldenskate, it's only the Kwan fans that are showing the behavior, but I doubt it.

 

[fscric]

Well, to start, I think the hatred is not so much MK herself as it is her FANATICS. Sure, there are those that will take any opportunity to shoot her down but in this argument, one (conveniently?) forgets the other group- the Kwan worshippers. I think that particular group gets on people's nerves and they take out their anger on the skater rather than the skaters' fans. It's sometimes a turnoff how certain people think MK is "the Kween", above everyone else, can do no wrong, etc. She is HUMAN. She has flaws just like you and me.

I say it's people's perogative whether they want to like her or not. No one should force somebody to like this person, or shame them for not liking this person. It's just a matter of favorites.

That said, with MK going to Torino, this discussion is basically over. I'm sick of hearing about how Emily is being "robbed", etc. It just gets me back to the "Kwan's being handed this spot just because she's MK" frame of mind, and I don't like that. Let's just "stop the hating and enjoy the skating".

JMO

RD, I know you have been trying your might to appear objective, but does your statement that Michelle's fans get on your nerve also applies to fans of other skaters such as Sasha who, as we have seen on here, has wished Michelle bad luck, break her legs? Inasmuch as the Kwan fans are criticized as crazy, I have not seen one such nasty wish on Sasha or other skaters from them.

About your "Kwan's being handed this spot just because she's MK" frame of mind, you honestly think so? From all accounts, Michelle was put under enormous scrutiny and ridiculous stories by the media, and I don't think USFSA has been very supportive before until after the monitoring session.

 

[R.D.]

There seem to be a lot more vocal Kwan fans than fans of any other skater, so I suppose that's where I direct most of my comments. But I've had similar issues with a couple of rabid Cohen fans as well, and they're every bit as bad as the rabid Kwannies.

 

[R.D.]

RD, I know you have been trying your might to appear objective, but does your statement that Michelle's fans get on your nerve also applies to fans of other skaters such as Sasha who, as we have seen on here, has wished Michelle bad luck, break her legs? Inasmuch as the Kwan fans are criticized as crazy, I have not seen one such nasty wish on Sasha or other skaters from them.

see above post, which was posted before I saw your comment. I have had to deal with a couple of Cohen fanatics, too (not here though). I won't name names, but there's this one in particular that was actually worse than any Kwan fan I've ever dealt with. I mean, this poster resorted to PERSONAL attacks on me just because I didn't worship his fav. (We eventually came to an understanding though, and it's now all good.) Thank goodness there aren't more like him on these boards!

One does not have to "wish bad luck" on a skater. I've seen one too many "snarks" on other skaters from a select few Kwan fans. I've also seen snarks on skaters from other fans as well (but I choose to concentrate on the Kwan fans because they are the ones most prominent here on GS).

I do have a bias, though, and that comes from being targeted by some of these very Kwan fans I'm talking about. I try not to let it interfere but I feel it does at times. It's unfortunate.

About your "Kwan's being handed this spot just because she's MK" frame of mind, you honestly think so? From all accounts, Michelle was put under enormous scrutiny and ridiculous stories by the media, and I don't think USFSA has been very supportive before until after the monitoring session.

I'd like to hope not. As I said in another thread (maybe earlier in this one?), I was on the fence re. this issue. I wasn't particularly for or against her bye, although if I had to choose a side it would probably have been for. But if I had to be 100% honest, no punches pulled, I'd have to throw in that the thought of me having the same opinion as some of those rabid kwan fans just turned me off (don't even ask why- I can't explain it, and it's nothing personal).

I do think MK was under a lot of scrutiny but one forgets the legion of fans and reporters that were supporting her decision. They probably outnumbered the "dissenters" by a drastic number. Yet people only discuss the negatives.

After the skate, it SOUNDED like she did well enough to be on the team. I was concerned that they would just slap together a Torino package for her no matter how she did- even if she laid on the ice for 15 minutes. But from the reports, it seems as if she did alright. I assume I can trust the reports. I HOPE I can.

Anyway, we'll see her in Torino. And if she doesn't do well, watch out for the backlash.

JMO

 

[flowjo35]

Wow. This thread was about Michelle's skate test? OT-it sounds like she did very well for having started jumping a couple of weeks again. I wish her the best at the olympics and hopes she medal (whatever color)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

My opinion is not selective in this regard. LIke I said before, folks on the podium have had to "pee in the cup" many times, and I don't think Navka deserves a break on this any more than I think anyone else deserves a break on this. DG

ITA, DG!!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

RD - You have to be joking:

I do think MK was under a lot of scrutiny but one forgets the legion of fans and reporters that were supporting her decision. They probably outnumbered the "dissenters" by a drastic number. Yet people only discuss the negatives.

You yourself was bringing in all the negative reports from the media and supporting the ones others brought in. There were plenty of negative reports especially MSNBC, an affiliate of the network bringing to us, the 2006 Olympics, and many fans on GS supported Emily's right to go.

The fact that Kwan fans are so numerous and steadfast is just a quirk of the board, although, I suspect MK is the most favored skater in the US.

Relax. One cannot control other people's feelings. I don't think MK will win but she will remain as popular or moreso than Janet Lynn all these years later.

And what is wrong with "vocal fans"? I will not go to Yankee Stadium because I can't stand the fans. I'm a METS fan and going to Shea Stadium - win or lose - is a pleasant evening. You should go to the Olympics, MK will not get the roar of the crowd. That'll lower you blood pressure.

Joe

 

[soogar]

I basically agree with you DG, but maybe with a little difference here.

I am getting quite tired of people saying Michelle took Emily's spot on the Oly team ... Emily never had the spot to begin with ... per the rules. IMO, Emily skated rather poorly in her LP and thus, never made any real case as to why she should go instead of Michelle. I don't consider that to be bashing Emily in any way .. it's just the truth.

Well I don't get why people are harping on Emily's "poor" skate at Nationals when by all accounts, Michelle skated quite poorly in her test skate as well. But Michelle being who she will get a chance to improve for the Olympics while Emily will not. Of course I question the whole fairness of the situation how a skater can sit out several seasons of GP competition and be injured the entire season yet somehow this skater is going to be a great shot for a medal. I really don't get that logic. If there was anything that 2005 Worlds showed, it showed that a skater can't just go out there without any competitive experience of a program and win a medal at worlds. She was close, but her performance of her program was very uncertain b/c she was clearly uncomfortable doing a fully loaded, COP friendly program. I don't know how the powers that be feel that Michelle is going to skate a COP friendly program well at the Olympics when she hasn't even had a chance to skate the programs in front of judges. It's not as if Michelle skates a brand new program perfectly the very first time she goes out with it. In fact, I don't think she ever has, yet USFS decides that she's going to be able to medal on her very first outing with brand new programs. It's not going to happen, but I suspect the USFS is aware of this but includes Michelle b/c of the publicity and the goodwill she has created through her years of competition. Though this is small consolation to a skater who puts just as much into her preparation as Michelle does (even more b.c this skater competed at the GP events and local events to get feedback).

 

[show 42]

Soogar......Have you ever heard of a "designated hitter" in baseball? He's the one who doesn't play regularly, but because of his skill, power, and reliability, he's called on to hit when the team is in need. Let's call Michelle the "designated hitter" for the U.S. Ladies at the Olympics! .............and be done with it! 42

 

[Mathman]

Wow. This thread was about Michelle's skate test?

:agree:

 

[millie]

Soogar......Have you ever heard of a "designated hitter" in baseball? He's the one who doesn't play regularly, but because of his skill, power, and reliability, he's called on to hit when the team is in need. Let's call Michelle the "designated hitter" for the U.S. Ladies at the Olympics! .............and be done with it! 42

But in figure skating, there are no "designated hitters". That's correct if you have a full tream behind you on the field like baseball or on the ice like hockey, they all work together but in figure skating you are out there by yourself. No team, no designated hitter. There may be an Olympic team, but they all work separately.
Good luck to Michelle and the other skaters

 

[Mathman]

You know what I wish Emily had done? I wish she would have fought for that spot by going to Four Continents. If she could have decisive beaten Katy Taylor, Bebe Liang and Yukari Nakano -- all of them skaters on the verge of Olympic quality -- while posting big CoP numbers, this at least would have put some pressure on the USFS commitee in their deliberations.

It probably wouldn't have made any difference, but at least she would have put up a fight.

MM

 

[show 42]

Millie, I was being silly (no pun intended). I was speaking somewhat metaphorically, the "team" being the Olympic team whose medal tally count encompasses all sports with Michelle up to bat, or to skate, for a medal......like I said, I was being silly........... 42