Ladies Free Skate

[yangjie]

being suprised at seeing kanko got a higher psc than rachel, i personally agree with it. rachel doesnt have speed in her skating.
also her jumps looks so heavy, which cant make huge GOE like kanako.

 

[Mathman]

If Kanako is so flawed - then what does it say about the Ladies she is beating :think:

Seriously.

It's like the bumper sticker on the back of your car: "I may be slow, but I'm ahead of you."

 

[Andalusia]

Many great smiles before and after Janet and what I wrote was noting a few of the comments like "I hate her cutesey program."

We all have different taste and thank goodness we see variety from skaters.

Some might not see it this way but Kanako's SP - the way it is presented is pretty good representation of some of the swing dancing from the 40's when the world was at war and "over the top" did not exist. It was about getting wild and silly and Kanako pulls off that feeling of abandonment pretty well. Some might not like it but the judges don't seem to mind

You're quoting me, so I'll respond. You said it yourself - everyone has different tastes, and some might adore Kanako's presentation while some might find that 'wind-up doll' style abhorrent. I happen to belong to the latter group. I might have found her SP more palatable if I felt that her "over the top" energy was genuine, but to me it just looked very 'turned on'. It came across as terribly cheesy and as if she was playing up far too much to the judges. That kind of "Oh, you gotta adore me cuz I'm just so gosh darned cute!" attitude is one that I find insufferable not just in skating, but in everyday life as well.

So, there you have it - I just can't stand Kanako's style of skating. It has nothing to do with her as a person, for I'm sure she's a perfectly lovely young lady. To suggest that the only reason why people can't stand her skating is because they're fearful that she represents a major new threat to their favorites speaks much of your narrow-mindedness.

 

[fairly4]

congrats to kankao-good skate
rachel--great skate. nice personality--keep it up.
carolina kostner-keep trying good for you for placing in medal round
victoria--good skate.

 

[janetfan]

You're quoting me, so I'll respond. You said it yourself - everyone has different tastes, and some might adore Kanako's presentation while some might find that 'wind-up doll' style abhorrent. I happen to belong to the latter group. I might have found her SP more palatable if I felt that her "over the top" energy was genuine, but to me it just looked very 'turned on'. It came across as terribly cheesy and as if she was playing up far too much to the judges. That kind of "Oh, you gotta adore me cuz I'm just so gosh darned cute!" attitude is one that I find insufferable not just in skating, but in everyday life as well.

So, there you have it - I just can't stand Kanako's style of skating. It has nothing to do with her as a person, for I'm sure she's a perfectly lovely young lady. To suggest that the only reason why people can't stand her skating is because they're fearful that she represents a major new threat to their favorites speaks much of your narrow-mindedness.

A fair enough reply - and if I appeared to quote you it was not personal as I think there have been several posts that share your POV.

I have no idea if Kanako can just switch on her enthusiasm - but it seems real enough to me. Watching her with her coach along the boards before she comes out to skate I see it too. I think she is cute but her appeal to me is the joy of skating she seems to show. She looks like she is having fun and that appeals to me on certain levels. It is a quality I get from Akiko as well even if it is a more grown up version of it.

I don't see how it is narrow minded to notice the attacks - some kind of ugly on Rippon and now Kanako. Whether you noticed or not - they were not attacked like this until they started making podiums and winning.

 

[dorispulaski]

Not everyone is as crazy about skating as I am...most people only notice a skater or team after they have first challenged for a podium spot. For one thing, the newer skaters and teams are not as easy to find on TV. So when they are noticed, that's when they will be criticized.

Additionally, if there's a skater or team you don't like something about at first sight, why would you start a thread saying, for example, I can't stand the skating of Stupida Smith who I saw skate at Liberty.

Would I say she was a junior star, but I didn't like her skating as a junior. Now that she is a senior, I don't like her as a senior as well. Only her SP was shown on US Sports (which not everyone has), and it is the same lame program as last year. She finished nearly last in both her GP events. What purpose is it to dump on the poor girl? No one would do it. OTOH, if somehow the disliked team or skater finished 4th somewhere or better, I might say something about what I don't like about her. Or not. I generally only get critical of teams or skaters that I think can improve.

Typically, if I'm discussing a lower ranked team, I like to point out as much as possible, what they are doing right, to encourage them (should any of their family be reading). Or mention things they can fix easily, like hair or costumes.

I don't think that's that uncommon a response.

 

[wonderlen3000]

Three ladies,
(1) best GPF result
(2) best Nationals result
(3) federation recommendation

Mao's in for sure (either #2 or #3). My gut feeing is that Kanako and Miki (#1), who's pretty consistent, will get the go, leaving Akiko out. Too bad. Her programs for this season are not as good as her last, but I enjoy her more than Miki. An upset could leave Miki out and Akiko in, but Kanko's in for sure. She's getting loads of media coverage as the rising star who combines the best out of Yu-na and Mao. Don't think Akiko gets as much love & it's not like the Japanese fed doesn't curb a few rules for a media favorite (Miki & Yukari 2006).

I haven't seen the programs yet, but Kanako got straight +2 GOE (although with 0.7 factor) for her 3T-3T Does that make her the second lady with a 3-3+2.0 GOE after Yu-na?

Congratulations to the medalists, esp. Kanako for her first senior gold!

TEB will tell us which Mao will show up. Mao need to win TEB convincingly, but IMO I have no idea why she is re-doing all her jumps. Her Loop is great, her Flip is O.K, and she is getting more consistent on her Sal and Toe. It seen fixing the flutz or Lip is causing inconsistency problem for all ladies, Mao, Miki, Ashley and flutz/lip jump still get more point than falling or poping a jump. Mao should work one jump at a time and shouldn't keep all her eggs in one basket. If she do another NHK la bomb at National, JFS shoudn't send Mao to World no matter if you a world champ or not. Either way, Mao is out of GPF.

That leave Miki and Akiko. If the Akiko wins, and Miki get Silver both will be in for GPF. Off the three, I see Miki will be finishing off the highest in the GPF unless she bomb. Between Akiko and Kanako, both has issues that need to be address with flutzing and underrotation, but Akiko does have advantage in PCS department and rightly so. Either way, its a learning process for Kanako and she is just out of junior circurt. She has time to fix her technique and her PCS mark should go up higher in time. She already has a reputation as a Jr World Champ, so I say she is on the right track. Lets just hope the puberty God is in her favor over the next 2 years.

 

[jenaj]

I'm not a big fan of Rachael's skating--that catch-foot spin, in particular, has to go--but I do feel that she is being unfairly held back by her PCS marks. No matter what she does, the marks stay in the mid-6, give or take a little, range. What is wrong with her choreography, for instance? If it is in her performance/execution, then mark her down there (which they do) but don't penalize her twice. That said, she would have won the gold had she not blown the lutz combo in her short program. I guess Rachael will just have to depend on technically difficult programs, executed perfectly, if she wants a chance at gold. The podium is certainly well within her reach, even if she makes a mistake. And finally, I remain disappointed in her styling. I don't like the short hair, hate the over the boot tights and red is not her color!

 

[Mathman]

I lked Kanako's cutesy-spunky SP just fine. (And I think Janetfan's observation is well taken that Kanako's was the only ladies' short progrm that NBC thought was fun enough to show on network TV.)

Of course next year I will be expecting a more sober and mature approach -- after all, she will be 17.

 

[miki88]

I've noticed Kanako since she was on the junior stage and my feelings about her remain the same. I like her personality but she doesn't wow me as much. For now, my like for her is on the same level as Akiko. (That is like, but not a strong like). I think it comes down to personal preferences. I prefer skaters who are more lyrical like Mao and Yukina. Perhaps, this will change when she matures later on.
But I do agree that she is a jewel in the current lackluster field of ladies skating. I was more wowed by the juniors earlier in the season, which might suggest something about the contenders for Sochi.

 

[silverlake22]

After watching the ladies, I have a few things to say:

I actually think Joshi is the better Helgesson.

Jenna McCorkell's best days are behind her

Min-Jung clearly is made to be a pairs skater

Alexe needs a new coach

Gede needs to die the hair back. Her lutz rivals Sebestyen's though.

Mae needs a new costume designer and intensive ballet classes. Nice jumps though.

Lacoste has a monster 2a but this was undermined by her choice of music.

Caroline still has a lot of work to do.

Rachael is still as reliable as ever. Dress was a huge improvement.

Kanako is adorable but was a little sloppy for me. I would have her 2nd. Oh and the dress has to go.

Carolina was a little disappointing but she's injured and I was happy to see her not meltdown.

 

[FlattFan]

Except FlattFan is incorrect. Flatt's 3Lz+2T got downgraded to a 3Lz<+2T. It was obvious on the replay; one of the commentators on NBC pointed it out. Kanako did not get any positive GOE for her flutz. If the technical caller is so biased, then why did Kanako get downgrades as well?

Incorrect in what? Rachael did a 3Lz+2T, did she not? She got a 4.6, did she not?
I don't know what you're talking about because I saw it on DVR and they DID NOT show any of her jumps on the replay. They did in the short program. After the LP, all they showed was her at the Kiss and Cry with Tom Z doing the push up. If you are going to lie, at least pick an obscure event where no one has access to the DVR.

 

[Mathman]

I thought that Rachael deserved higher scores in choreography and interpretation. The performance definitely went along with the musical selection, both in concept and in execution.

Most skating programs have nothing much to do with the music at all. You can watch them with the sound turned down and play any music you like while watching the tape.

 

[demarinis5]

You know I am not much of "wuz robbed" type of fan but sorry, Rachael was.

 

[Krislite]

You know I am not much of "wuz robbed" type of fan but sorry, Rachael was.

Not much of a Flatt fan myself, but I think I agree with some of the sentiments here. Rachael should have scored a bit higher in the LP, particularly in the components. Whether she should have won, my gut feeling is yes, although she did snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by messing up her short program.

The crazy thing about the new CoP rules is that while underrotations are not as heavily penalized as before, GoE's are factored by less than 1 so that poor execution is also not as heavily penalized any more. In the end, while the absolute penalty for underrotation may be smaller, relative to other mistakes it is still about the same if not greater! So the results will likely be the same as before: "clean" looking programs with downgrades and underrotations will still lose to "unclean" programs with fully rotated jumps.

That's not even taking into account the new incentives the tech panel faces. While in the past a tech caller might have been more lenient out of mercy since downgrades were excessively punitive, now that the penalty is less they don't have to give the benefit of the doubt.

The new rules could (and probably do) actually hurt Rachael, Mirai and other skaters prone to calls of underrotations even more than before.

 

[miki88]

The new rules could (and probably do) actually hurt Rachael, Mirai and other skaters prone to calls of underrotations even more than before.

Funny, wasn't Mirai the one who lost to Rachel due to UR's just last year? I thought Rachel was the one who was known to rotate her jumps until that Olympics where she was one of the few among the top who got called. I don't think her biggest problem is UR's because it's not like Kanako is immune to them either. She lost in the intangible factors, which has been an issue throughout her career.

 

[prettykeys]

Kanako, whether you like her or not...is very good. I think it would be hard to deny the talent that this Junior World Champion has. I do wish Rachael had won the Gold because she rightfully won the LP, but her mistakes in her SP were crucial and uncharacteristic so I cannot go into "wuzrobbed" mode at all. Anyway, Rachael should feel victorious; I really did enjoy her LP and thought she was classy and had pizzazz, something unexpected Rachael is definitely on the upstroke, so I hope she continues making progress.

Nice to see that someone who was actually there can validate my feelings about Kanako's skating. I absolutely detested her choreography in the short - it was way OTT perky, and the non-stop smiling she did throughout the program came across as terribly fake to me. She's obviously been taught by Midori's former coach to 'turn it on', so to speak, but what came across as genuine from Midori has the opposite effect with Kanako, IMO. At least she wasn't so grating in the LP, but overall I'm not terribly impressed by her skating - she has a nice 3T-3T, but her other jumps range from competent to mediocre (that hammer kick she does on the flip/lutz is not pretty), her spins are so-so, and her presentation seems forced and quite unpolished.

If she makes the World team and Mao doesn't - ethereal, elegant, refined Mao - I will scream. It's bad enough that Miki is almost assured a spot, but at least with Miki you get the wonderful jumps and Morozovified choreography that is so bad it's entertaining to watch. And I really hope that Akiko doesn't somehow get lost in the shuffle - now, there's a skater who conveys genuine excitemment and delight in her programs without being phony.

Andalusia, I am sensing some negativity in your posts, possibly stemming from anticipating the need to defend your opinions...and I just want to reassure you that you aren't alone.

Personally, I like spunky, I definitely appreciate spunk! I thought Kanako's SP at NHK was cute and a breath of fresh air...but I found that this time around at Skate America, it was too much and I felt a bit turned off. I can't pinpoint it exactly but it feels analogous to having had too much sugar and getting sick afterwards. I would be the biggest hypocrite if I criticized Kanako for "turning on her show face" since YuNa in her Senior debut was described a bit like that: shy and quiet off the ice, coming alive on the ice...something tells me that Kanako is a naturally cheerful, energetic girl but I must admit that the way she goes into overdrive during her SP doesn't engage and invite the audience in as much as it appears to be a kind of unidirectional "hey look at me, I'm so cute!"

On the other hand, I enjoyed Kanako's LP and thought it was quite nice. She's a natural performer, and I'm impressed by her seemingly boundless energy. There were no discernible signs of fatigue or slowing down in her LP.

MrScroogeMcDuck mentions control...I think Kanako had the right mix of control and spontaneity. Too much methodical deliberation can kill a performance, too. When I think of "sloppy", I think of Sarah Hughes (sorry Sarah Hughes fans :x )--lovely spins, but sloppy jumps. :x Kanako seemed all right to me.

Anyway, I don't think we have to fear for Mao yet. I totally agree that Mao is something special: a true technical prodigy with a deeper expressivity and with slightly more substance; ethereal and sublime at her best. However, we should give Kanako some slack for two reasons: She concedes this. ("Mao skates in heaven, while I skate on Earth.") Secondly, Kanako is 4 years younger! That's a looong time, and I have an inkling that Kanako will improve over the years. She's definitely worth keeping an eye on. I'm not too attached to Miki or Akiko myself, so whatever goes...

 

[Krislite]

Funny, wasn't Mirai the one who lost to Rachel due to UR's just last year? I thought Rachel was the one who was known to rotate her jumps until that Olympics where she was one of the few among the top who got called. I don't think her biggest problem is UR's because it's not like Kanako is immune to them either. She lost in the intangible factors, which has been an issue throughout her career.

I'm not saying UR's are Rachael's biggest problem. I meant that the new rules, which I suspect the US and other federations lobbied for to benefit their skaters, might actually be working against her and many other skaters who were prone to UR's before the new rules. Rachael's having problem enough as it is getting the judges to like her, but now she has to contend with even stricter UR rules and so she's being held down on both scores: her technical scores and her program components.

 

[oleada]

Incorrect in what? Rachael did a 3Lz+2T, did she not? She got a 4.6, did she not?
I don't know what you're talking about because I saw it on DVR and they DID NOT show any of her jumps on the replay. They did in the short program. After the LP, all they showed was her at the Kiss and Cry with Tom Z doing the push up. If you are going to lie, at least pick an obscure event where no one has access to the DVR.

Rachael attempted a 3Lz+2T. She did not get credit for this - it was under-rotated and called as such. See the protocol here. So technically, under IJS, she did not do a 3Lz+2T. As you can see, all the judges gave her -GOE for this element. As the judges aren't shown the downgrades/UR calls this year (and someone can correct me on this, as I am not 100% sure), one can assume they saw something wrong with the jump. That's the reason Kanako got more for a solo 3Lz even with an edge call - she got full credit for that jump.

As for the video, you might want to check your DVR again. I downloaded the video from FSVids to double-check, but after the whole Tom Z. doing pushups things. Scott makes a comment about the scores taking a long time usually means that they are looking at rotation issues and that Rachael has gotten UR calls before, then they start showing a replay of the 3Lz+2T at approx . 6:31 in the video uploaded at FSVids and they have the following exchange.

Terry: We take another look, how about rotations?
Tracey: Underrotations not as costly this year. People felt they were being too picky watch on downgrades and underrotations, so you don't lose it all....

Then they start replaying part of her footwork.

So don't accuse me of lying when I'm right.

 

[burntBREAD]

Rachael attempted a 3Lz+2T. She did not get credit for this - it was under-rotated and called as such. See the protocol here. So technically, under IJS, she did not do a 3Lz+2T. As you can see, all the judges gave her -GOE for this element. As the judges aren't shown the downgrades/UR calls this year (and someone can correct me on this, as I am not 100% sure), one can assume they saw something wrong with the jump. That's the reason Kanako got more for a solo 3Lz even with an edge call - she got full credit for that jump.

As for the video, you might want to check your DVR again. I downloaded the video from FSVids to double-check, but after the whole Tom Z. doing pushups things. Scott makes a comment about the scores taking a long time usually means that they are looking at rotation issues and that Rachael has gotten UR calls before, then they start showing a replay of the 3Lz+2T at approx . 6:31 in the video uploaded at FSVids and they have the following exchange.

Terry: We take another look, how about rotations?
Tracey: Underrotations not as costly this year. People felt they were being too picky watch on downgrades and underrotations, so you don't lose it all....

Then they start replaying part of her footwork.

So don't accuse me of lying when I'm right.

I'm not going to get into any of this "wuzrobbed" business this time, but I certainly enjoyed Kanako's performance more, annoying or whatnot. If you see her in interviews and the way she acts when she's not skating you can see it is clearly not "put on", she is really quite adorable. It takes a really precocious person to declare about Mao, "She skates in heaven while I skate on Earth"

How do you find this season's programs on FSVids? I can only see the 2009-2010 season, unless the 2010-2011 season forum just got added in