LADIES LONG PROGRAM Thread

[evangeline]

...and Wagner herself just now admitted in the post-FS interview on NBC that she's "not so pleased" with her 4th place finish (but is happy with how she skated).

Wagner has always seemed very driven to me, so I'm not too surprised about her disappointment. And ITA, she should have been third. Anyway, her biggest issue in previous years (besides two-footing her jumps) was her inability to peak at the right time, i.e. US Nationals. But this year, I think Mr. Nicks will definitely work on that....I won't be surprised if she makes the world team over Mirai, who seems to have lost the joy in skating that had made her such a delight to watch in the past.

 

[R.D.]

yeah...I got the feeling she was trying to slip it in while making the typical "happy I skated my best" thing we hear from them all...

But it did reveal what I suspected, and that's that, like the rest of us, she also feels that she is not getting the scores (PCS-wise perhaps) that she deserves. My hope is that rather than being discouraged, it lights a fire within her to increase her difficulty level (if Czisny can do it......anyone can!) and fight to earn that respect from the judges. I mean, I heard many fans complaining that Suzuki wasn't getting the scores she deserved last season...and look what she's getting now. Just like in the 6.0 system, apparently the judges are not comfortable giving huge scores to newcomers...

 

[dorispulaski]

Well, what I'd like to know is when did Suzuki improve her leg wrap to where it isn't really noticeable any more? No wonder she is getting better GOE and PCS!! (I don't follow the ladies very closely, so I was surprised and pleased to see this).

Meanwhile, I see from the protocols, the callers are still very strict about edge calls and URs,
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2011/gpjpn2011_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
and Wagner is still getting called for UR's and flutzing.

 

[chuckm]

yeah...I got the feeling she was trying to slip it in while making the typical "happy I skated my best" thing we hear from them all...

But it did reveal what I suspected, and that's that, like the rest of us, she also feels that she is not getting the scores (PCS-wise perhaps) that she deserves. My hope is that rather than being discouraged, it lights a fire within her to increase her difficulty level (if Czisny can do it......anyone can!) and fight to earn that respect from the judges. I mean, I heard many fans complaining that Suzuki wasn't getting the scores she deserved last season...and look what she's getting now. Just like in the 6.0 system, apparently the judges are not comfortable giving huge scores to newcomers...

Um, this time Suzuki was skating AT HOME. She scored about the same (119+) at both SC and NHK, but wow, what a difference in PCS.

55.60 7.32 6.50 7.14 6.93 6.86 FS PCS, SC
62.39 8.07 7.50 7.71 7.75 7.96 FS PCS, NHK

There's no guarantee that Akiko would get PCS scores that high outside Japan.

Ashley also skated previously at SC, and scored approximately the same in the NHK FS as she did in Canada. Her PCS scores were about the same as well.

55.48 7.04 6.32 7.32 6.82 7.18 FS PCS, SC
55.32 7.04 6.61 7.04 7.00 6.89 FS PCS, NHK

Ashley skated well at both competitions, but her skating just lacks personality and pizzazz. That's why she doesn't get higher PCS scores. Akiko is engaging on the ice, while Ashley is competent but not a lot more.

 

[burntBREAD]

Well, what I'd like to know is when did Suzuki improve her leg wrap to where it isn't really noticeable any more? No wonder she is getting better GOE and PCS!! (I don't follow the ladies very closely, so I was surprised and pleased to see this).

Meanwhile, I see from the protocols, the callers are still very strict about edge calls and URs,
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2011/gpjpn2011_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
and Wagner is still getting called for UR's and flutzing.

Suzuki never had a leg wrap! I think you're thinking of Yukari Nakano. Also, Suzuki doesn't lip, so not sure about her edge calls, they're similar to Mirai's edge calls on her flips last year even though they were off (barely) an inside edge.

 

[Nadine]

Lol about posters' misinterpretation of what I meant by Brian Orser being young (not that he isn't).

Sorry, let me clarify, I meant in terms of coaches. Specifically Frank Carroll.

I mean come on, it took Frank Carroll almost his entire life to finally get a gold medal skater (aka Evan Lysacek) whereas Brian Orser accomplished that feat on his first try really (48 yrs. old versus 70 yrs. old at the time of this feat).

More than all that though Brian has success after success after success in being able to turn skaters around and bring out their very best! His work with Elene G. is what sold me. Then looking at his record he also did this with Yuna Kim & Javiar Fernandez, to name a few. Adam Rippon made a big mistake leaving him imho.; one that he might regret the rest of his f.s. life. jmho.

And what Mr. Nicks has done with Ashley Wagner is equally great; she's finally found the perfect coach for her. I love it when that happens, when both skater & coach click, and wonderful things happen.

ps: now if only the USFSA can bribe Mr. Mishin with tons of $$$$ to come to the US and teach the ladies (& the men for that matter) how to jump correctly with perfect technique ~ big high fully rotated beautiful jumps with correct technique. No underrotations, no downgrades, no small quick twitch jumps that rely on the speed of the rotation instead of the height & depth.


Btw, thus far Ashley Wagner is the only American Lady Skater's programs that I like so far this season ~ she's packaged perfectly ~ just wish she would jump bigger, fully rotate her jumps, and stop the two-footing. *sigh*

 

[Nadine]

ps: emma, I wasn't singling you out, in fact I honestly don't recall who said what, alls I noted was some posts comparing Alena to Irina, thus I felt the need to put in my $.00, lol. And it gave me a chance to write about the Irina Slutskaya of old. And as one may have noted from my posts from waaaay back, I simply cannot stand Alena Leonova's skating, period, in fact what I wrote this time is mild compared to what I wrote last year or the year before. :

 

[chuckm]

Alena has an engaging personality on the ice, and it's probably the best thing about her. I don't much like Alena's skating, which is often heavy; she appears to be working hard to land her jumps rather than making it look easy, like Mao. However I have to say that given a choice, I prefer Leonova to Makarova, who's had dismal results this season.

 

[Nadine]

bleh, I don't like either one, skating that is!

But each to his/her own.

And what a joy it will be when Adelina & Elizaveta come onto the Senior Scene, at last: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1uunRdQ61M&feature=related


*Nadine giggling evily, lol*

 

[skateflower]

Ashley also skated previously at SC, and scored approximately the same in the NHK FS as she did in Canada. Her PCS scores were about the same as well.

55.48 7.04 6.32 7.32 6.82 7.18 FS PCS, SC
55.32 7.04 6.61 7.04 7.00 6.89 FS PCS, NHK

.

Ashley's international scores puzzle me a lot. On paper, she should be a skater that appeals to judges, or at least not turn off judges. She has the right nationality(U.S.A!), decent skating skills, speed and body lines, good if not terrific programs, decent consistency, all triples, engaging personality. However, judges always drop her like a stone if she makes any mistake. Even if she skates 'clean', judges are still quite stingy in giving her good marks.

Based on the scores she's got at internationla competitions, you'd think she skated like Mira Leung.

 

[LeCygne]

Ashley's international scores puzzle me a lot. On paper, she should be a skater that appeals to judges, or at least not turn off judges. She has the right nationality(U.S.A!), decent skating skills, speed and body lines, good if not terrific programs, decent consistency, all triples, engaging personality. However, judges always drop her like a stone if she makes any mistake. Even if she skates 'clean', judges are still quite stingy in giving her good marks.

Contrast this with Mirai Nagasu, who the judges never fail to reward if she's even remotely clean. I hope the time will come for Ashley. She really seems like she's in such a good place this year. She just has to stick it out and keep skating clean programs like she's doing. She's had great programs and choreography for a couple seasons now, which is more than you can say for many skaters. I do think she'll be rewarded at U.S. Nationals if she goes clean and if it were me, I'd send her and Alissa to Worlds.

 

[Mrs. P]

Contrast this with Mirai Nagasu, who the judges never fail to reward if she's even remotely clean. I hope the time will come for Ashley. She really seems like she's in such a good place this year. She just has to stick it out and keep skating clean programs like she's doing. She's had great programs and choreography for a couple seasons now, which is more than you can say for many skaters. I do think she'll be rewarded at U.S. Nationals if she goes clean and if it were me, I'd send her and Alissa to Worlds.

I think part of the problem is that Ashley has yet to show her full potential, i.e. a breakout international competition. Mirai had hers in the 2010 Olympics and the 2010 World SP. Ashley did make the GPF in 2009-2010, but a big part of that was the relatively weak competition at her events. And also her last appearance at Worlds in 2008 was pretty much a disastrous with a 15th place finish. Judges don't forget stuff like that.

Add to that that she is currently perceived as the second-tier of American skaters. She's never finished higher than third and she's finished as worse as 6th (last year).

Also contrast this to Alena. For all her flaws, she has been the solid No. 2 Russian skater for two years now and she has finished better than Ksenia in most competitions. She's also finished in the top 5 in Euros for the last two years and, of course Worlds, last year.

It sorta bites for Ashley, but I'm hoping that she knows that she is doing the right thing and is on the right track and that the judges will take notice as she keeps skating better, especially if she gets on the World team and manages to get a top 10 finish there.

 

[SXTN]

Meanwhile, I see from the protocols, the callers are still very strict about edge calls and URs,
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2011/gpjpn2011_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
and Wagner is still getting called for UR's and flutzing.

But not with Mao! I loved her program but her Lutz and Salchow were underrotated too honestly.

 

[seniorita]

Alena doesnt skate like Irina cause I loved Irina and Leonova I cant rely stand her, cant enjoy her Lp, neither her Sp this season. It is nice she has so many pirate expression but I hate both her programs, especially the Lp music cut.

Wagner this year is a very nice surprise, I sit and watch her whole programs to the end which I didnt in the past, I m very glad she doesnt skate to pretty princess music and I like Mr Nicks very much, i hope she has a great season.

 

[chuckm]

Ashley's international scores puzzle me a lot. On paper, she should be a skater that appeals to judges, or at least not turn off judges. She has the right nationality(U.S.A!), decent skating skills, speed and body lines, good if not terrific programs, decent consistency, all triples, engaging personality. However, judges always drop her like a stone if she makes any mistake. Even if she skates 'clean', judges are still quite stingy in giving her good marks.

Based on the scores she's got at internationla competitions, you'd think she skated like Mira Leung.

NOT! Mira never got a PCS score anywhere near 7. Most of the time her scores were in the 5s---even a few 4s.

 

[jatale]

Ashley was robbed, she should have placed third. The judges erred.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Ashley was robbed, she should have placed third. The judges erred.

For some reason the judges are not forgiving Ashely, even with Mr. Nicks as her coach. She was not perfect but has better speed, skating skills and presentation than most of the other American ladies (except Alissa of course). She actually gets airtime on her jumps, and has quite elegant exit positions and pointed toes. I hope that she gets some street cred by nationals.

 

[burntBREAD]

For some reason the judges are not forgiving Ashely, even with Mr. Nicks as her coach. She was not perfect but has better speed, skating skills and presentation than most of the other American ladies (except Alissa of course). She actually gets airtime on her jumps, and has quite elegant exit positions and pointed toes. I hope that she gets some street cred by nationals.

Alissa is actually very very slow. Mirai is the fastest of the top ladies (though she's been slower also as of late).

 

[evangeline]

Alissa is actually very very slow. Mirai is the fastest of the top ladies (though she's been slower also as of late).

I've seen Alissa live, and she is indeed quite slow. I suspect this was one factor that kept her back at Worlds last year even though she skated fairly well, given that she was put behind Caro Kostner (very fast), Alena Leonova (sloppy but fast), Yu-Na Kim (fast), Miki Ando (also quite fast).

About Ashley--she has been her own worst enemy for the past couple of seasons with all those 2-foots and not being able to peak at the right time. You won't get much street cred if you can't even make it out of your own Nationals properly.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Mao was so beautiful! Happy for her!