Ladies LP

[bekalc]

Why the hell going to another coach is always the solution? Kimmie went to a widely renowed jump specialist. Everybody, skating fans, Kimmie herself was cheering that she'd soon find her mojo back. Look at what happened? Consistently landing jumps is always key to success in figure skating, and it's ALWAYS hard.If it's easy, there would be 10, 20something that can vie for world podium at any given year. In reality, there are only 5 or 6 ladies who have solid jumps and can legitimately be called medal contenders.

Many, if not most promising junior ladies have lost jumps after growth spurt and most of these ladies simply disappear for good, and then there will be the next wave of prodigies...There is NO magic coach that can pass out magic pills to get those jumps back. Rafael couldn't help Jeff nail 3A, quads, he didn't even try to correct Mao's 3lutz, why do you believe he's that magic?

Usually junior ladies with solid jump technique will be able to come through. Mao , Ando are good examples. Kimmie's jumps were iffy as a junior, and I doubt she will ever get them back.

It's not about magic. It's about the fact that if something isn't working, you don't continue to do what you've done in the past. Someone on FSU who has seen Mirai since she was young, has mentioned that Mirai's jumps were a lot better in general when she was with her old coach. That Mirai back then never had these kinds of jumping issues. Now, hey maybe growth was part of it, but maybe Mirai's coach also just doesn't have the eyes to correct these types of things.

Now yes, a coach isn't a magic worker and sometimes things can't be fixed. But Mirai is still very young, and I think it's worth at least TRYING now to get this fixed. The fact is this is the second season Mirai has had issues with this type of thing, and it has not been fixed with Charlene. I think that suggests quite clearly that a change is in order. I don't know if Rafael is the answer or not. But the answer is certainly not staying with Charlene.

 

[fourclover]

I wish people should stop judging spiral solely on how flexible it looks but look at the edge control and speed. One thing I dislike about Mao's spiral is that no matter how stretched she is, she looks like she's crawling during her spiral sequence. Not to mention her weak edge change.

I've been noticing this lately too. She's perfectly stretched but she's so slow it looks like she's going to stop gliding.

 

[fiercemao]

. That Mirai back then never had these kinds of jumping issues. Now, hey maybe growth was part of it, but maybe Mirai's coach also just doesn't have the eyes to correct these types of things.

.

This is so laughable. Yeah, we should always trust those rumors circulated by disgruntled fantatics on some skating boards. Mirai has been with this coach for how long, maybe two or three years. Before that, I doubt she even had consistent triples, let alone 'NEVER HAD THESE KINDS OF JUMPING ISSUES'. When kids at age of 11/12 learn to go from doubles to triples, you would imagine they almost always underrotate first, even Mao underrorated many triples. Mirai is only 15 years old, how the hell could Mirai do CLEANER triples 2-3 years ago while with her OLD coach?

 

[Ms.Anthrope]

Mao's spiral is slow because she doesn't do the forward running skating right before the spiral like Yuna and Miki do.

I went and looked at Mao's SP & LP from last year. I don't know what else to call Mao's entrance into her spiral sequence except it is same as what you call "forward running skating". I see no difference in the spiral sequence entrances among YuNa, Kostner, Miki & Mao.

 

[Ms.Anthrope]

By the way, did anyone catch that NBC put the U.S.A. flag next to YuNa's name during the final interview?

 

[fourclover]

Yu-Na doesn't look as thin to me as she did last year. Not only does she look healthier, it may indicate that she is wisely aiming to peak for Worlds rather than the GPF.

Exactly what I thought too. She looked somewhat heavier and even cumbersome compared to her usual standard. I remember someone on this board mentioned after seeing her practice video that Yu-na didn't look ready. Compared to how she looked in the beginning of the season last year, Yu-na didn't look as fit. Maybe that's her new strategy; aim to peak at world's by practicing and getting fit in moderation. JMHO

I've been noticing this lately too. She's perfectly stretched but she's so slow it looks like she's going to stop gliding.

Oh, and I forgot to add: I had to endure through Old Dick screaming that's how spirals should be done. Same goes for Alyssa.

 

[bekalc]

This is so laughable. Yeah, we should always trust those rumors circulated by disgruntled fantatics on some skating boards. Mirai has been with this coach for how long, maybe two or three years. Before that, I doubt she even had consistent triples, let alone 'NEVER HAD THESE KINDS OF JUMPING ISSUES'. When kids at age of 11/12 learn to go from doubles to triples, you would imagine they almost always underrotate first, even Mao underrorated many triples. Mirai is only 15 years old, how the hell could Mirai do CLEANER triples 2-3 years ago while with her OLD coach?

Mirai went to Charlene the season she won Junior Nationals. It was the middle of the season too from what I hear... Charlene clearly helped Mirai mentally, but the person is saying that Mirai's triple jumps were stronger and that the longer she's been with Charlene the worst they have gotten. Let me put it to you this way. At Junior worlds two years ago, Mirai had no triple jump downgrades. And landed 6 clean triple jumps.

At Junior worlds last season, Junior Grand Prix Finals, and one of her JGP events (along with LA Open) Mirai had multiple downgrades. And the reports are about Mirai is that she's extremely careful about technique willing to learn these things. So I think it's quite clear that it might possibly be a coaching problem. It's not like Charlene has a reputation for coaching great jumpers.

Maybe Charlene isn't the problem. But it's clear her jumps aren't getting better. It certainly wouldn't hurt to try to fix the problem now and not later.

 

[lmarie086]

Exactly what I thought too. She looked somewhat heavier and even cumbersome compared to her usual standard. I remember someone on this board mentioned after seeing her practice video that Yu-na didn't look ready. Compared to how she looked in the beginning of the season last year, Yu-na didn't look as fit. Maybe that's her new strategy; aim to peak at world's by practicing and getting fit in moderation. JMHO

I don't want to imagine her any tinier, as she's already quite slim. She looked just fine to me. Maybe not as prepared for the start of the season as last year, but that is the strategy she and Orser have decided on; training less hard in beginning of the year so she doesn't hurt herself in the middle of the season, making it difficult to be at her best at Worlds.
I think it's an excellent strategy; build continuously and peak at just the right moment.

 

[bekalc]

Exactly what I thought too. She looked somewhat heavier and even cumbersome compared to her usual standard. I remember someone on this board mentioned after seeing her practice video that Yu-na didn't look ready. Compared to how she looked in the beginning of the season last year, Yu-na didn't look as fit. Maybe that's her new strategy; aim to peak at world's by practicing and getting fit in moderation. JMHO

I read an article a month are so again and Orser said that's exactly their strategy..

 

[mycelticblessing]

Kim's costume is very similar to what Kwan used for her Scheherezade. I was hoping to see something a little more different. But Kim's SP costume is GORGEOUS! I couldn't take my eyes off her. She looks so beautiful in it.

Kim and Ando were both super! I really didn't expect Ando to perform so well at the first competition, but I'm really glad she did!

As for the American women, I liked Flatt the best. Kimmie has really improved in some areas. Her spirals looked much steadier and more confident than they were in the past. I hope she can get more confident as the season goes on!

 

[Wrlmy]

Kimmie- I don't know what to say except I feel so bad for her. I think she needs longer period of time under the radar so that she can really work on her technique without the media breathing down her neck.

Mirai- she got hit real hard. I'm not really worried since she's still recovering from injury and coping with a few inches of growth. Lori Nicole choreagraphed great programs for her. I don't know why she didn't do the same for Rachael.

Rachael- Not as good as short program. But she can still land those triples. She just lost concentration and let nerves get to her. Making final isn't totally out of reach for her since CoR lineup isn't as strong. I also think she can really benefit from losing 4-5lb (please forgive me if I offended anyone for saying this).

Yukari- Wow I thought she was on downward spiral based on her regional performance. I'm still surprised she, out of all, got away with downgrade. I don't necessarily think she has the look of Giselle, but she definitely made it work.

Miki- she's not getting any benefit of doubt as a former world champion. 52 pcs despite six clean triples? Seems like she has lots of work cut out for her to reclaim her top skater status. I honestly don't know what more she can do at this point. She is still a contender for the podium, but I believe she wants more than that.

Yu-Na- I have to give credits to Orser and David Wilson. Last year, although she scored big, it was on her merits only, much like Irina. Wilson finally choreographed two great programs for her. I like how Yu-Na channeled Kwan, but also made the program her own--sorry for sounding so American Idol here.
She didn't learn any new trick, but it's obvious she's worked very hard on her basics. I noticed she gets speed on fewer strokes, and her edges are smoother than ever. Credits to Orser.

 

[AwesomeIce]

Mirai went to Charlene the season she won Junior Nationals. It was the middle of the season too from what I hear... Charlene clearly helped Mirai mentally, but the person is saying that Mirai's triple jumps were stronger and that the longer she's been with Charlene the worst they have gotten. Let me put it to you this way. At Junior worlds two years ago, Mirai had no triple jump downgrades. And landed 6 clean triple jumps.

Yeah but two years ago the judges weren't going crazy with the downgrades (not that I think the judges are wrong, I'm glad they are punishing the cheated jumps, I just mean that two seasons ago, they weren't really doing that), so I'd have to go back and look at Mirai's jumps again. I do remember that on some practice vids on YouTube, she was cheating her jumps back then, too.

 

[feraina]

At Junior worlds two years ago, Mirai had no triple jump downgrades. And landed 6 clean triple jumps.

Nor did Caroline! And then her first senior GP exactly a year ago, bam! Five downgrades in the LP, deja vu? Actually, I think Caroline was closer to rotating her triples at the last SA than Mirai was this time. Caroline's UR one couldn't really see without slow-motion, and then you had to really squint and re-play and slow-mo the slow-mo and say well that's close after all (remember someone actually made up slow-mo's of the five jumps on youtube for closer analysis), whereas with Mirai's UR was very obvious to the naked eye. This is despite the fact that Mirai jumps a little higher and goes into her jumps with more speed, Caroline just rotates faster and is more upright in the air. This is why I think that Mirai's problems really have to do with technique. She jumps high enough and has enough natural power and speed to bang out those triples with ease. I always said that it makes no sense that she was dogged by UR problems last season, when she hadn't had her growth spurt yet and was jumping with a lot of height and speed and confidence.

This GS article says that she made the coaching switch to Wong in October, 2006. That's probably just before or after the regionals and before sectionals.
http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2007/082007.shtml

I really hope that she (along with Caroline) make up the Worlds team next spring. I'd love to see her skate to her full potential. She'll be up against another tough field at NHK. Hope she gets her ankle rested and the jumps back soon!

 

[jsteam4501s]

It would have been interesting to see if Rachael would have placed higher had she hit everything. The fallout and the pop were both huge surprises - It's like Scott said, we have never seen her backside even come close to the ice!

Evan should have won the men's, IMO.

 

[puhijun]

For the SP scores

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa08/gpusa08_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

For the LP scores

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa08/gpusa08_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

What I found very interesting is that they are interestingly varying GOE's for spiral and steps, as if they are jumps. What I also found interesting is that the GOE's for jumps are not as high as before, even though the quality of the jumps on all the competitors went up compared to last year, except that they fell. (i.e. Yuna's 3F + 3T used to have 2.00 GOE's)

The another interesting is that the program component scores. I guess they are more strictly giving points. (for example, Miki was better at Technical component but not at the program component score) I think they evaluate more to the artistic skating as well, which probably is the reason why Yuna and Nakano scored higher than it seemed.

 

[BelleFilleYuna]

I noticed she gets speed on fewer strokes, and her edges are smoother than ever. Credits to Orser.

God, you give me chills, Mr.Orser said exactly the same thing in an interview, that they worked hard to get speed with less strokes. I thought the way Orser is training YuNa might be kinda old-school, emphasizing edge qualities and speed but it's good to see that his methods start to pay off.

 

[Bennett]

Yukari

I just watched her Giselle now. First of all, congratulations on medalling. I am happy that she gets better and better.

But I did not necessarily appreciate the program too much despite her lovely atmosphere.
Fisrt, I thought it odd that the ordering of the music is reversed. Here Giselle goes crazy first and then has a happy moment of the first love.
Second, I did not like that she imitated the moves of the solo variation of Giselle, which is actually so extremely difficult. It is not surprising that it looks sloppy here.
Third, She does not have the good extension or stretch on her knees, pointed toes, or leg turnout. Her upper body posture is not flattering, esp. on spirals. Her arms also can be too straight.
These weaknesses stand out when she uses ballet music and focuses so much on its original theme as she does here. I've seen much more beautiful, moving Giselle ballet performances and this is too much emphasis on its original theme and a lot of imiations of ballet moves despite the paucity of ballet training. I do not think it a good strategy.

That said, she did a great job. A nearly clean program and a pleasant, lovely, charming atmosphere. Althoguh Miki had much more wonderful jumps, I still like her Giselle much better than Miki's.

 

[Bennett]

Downgrade issue and PCS

For the SP scores

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa08/gpusa08_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

For the LP scores

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa08/gpusa08_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

What I found very interesting is that they are interestingly varying GOE's for spiral and steps, as if they are jumps. What I also found interesting is that the GOE's for jumps are not as high as before, even though the quality of the jumps on all the competitors went up compared to last year, except that they fell. (i.e. Yuna's 3F + 3T used to have 2.00 GOE's)

The another interesting is that the program component scores. I guess they are more strictly giving points. (for example, Miki was better at Technical component but not at the program component score) I think they evaluate more to the artistic skating as well, which probably is the reason why Yuna and Nakano scored higher than it seemed.

Do you think that the callers were particularly strick at this comp? Many ppl didn't see Miki's URs in SP or LP. I actually also could not see Mirai's UR on her first flip, the second lutz, or the first loop until I saw the slow-mo video, even though her UR was pretty obvious on 3F-2T and the latter jump of 3R-2R and 3S even at the bare eyesight. Do callers use slow-mo to tell URs?

I also agree that PCSs may be more strict than usual even though I was not sure about the strategies (i.e., just pre-existing reputations or real assessments according to the PCS strategies?). Miki could have beaten Yukari if they did not lower Miki's PCSs so much; a lot of times juges automatically gave good PCSs to those who cleanly landed big jumps though. I wonder if her last year's performances are subconsciously affecting her PCSs or the judges did not like her odd stumbles and the overall presentation skills. Even Mirai had comparable PCS to Miki despite being so extremely low on TES at this time.

 

[AwesomeIce]

Do you think that the callers were particularly strick at this comp? Many ppl didn't see Miki's URs in SP or LP. I actually also could not see Mirai's UR on her first flip, the second lutz, or the first loop until I saw the slow-mo video, even though her UR was pretty obvious on 3F-2T and the latter jump of 3R-2R and 3S even at the bare eyesight. Do callers use slow-mo to tell URs?

I also agree that PCSs may be more strict than usual even though I was not sure about the strategies (i.e., just pre-existing reputations or real assessments according to the PCS strategies?). Miki could have beaten Yukari if they did not lower Miki's PCSs so much; a lot of times juges automatically gave good PCSs to those who cleanly landed big jumps though. I wonder if her last year's performances are subconsciously affecting her PCSs or the judges did not like her odd stumbles and the overall presentation skills. Even Mirai had comparable PCS to Miki despite being so extremely low on TES at this time.

I thought the calls were pretty much right on the money with regards to the underrotated jumps, and I'm glad that people were getting dinged for the URs. I definitely saw all of the URs that were called for Mirai, for instance, and I'm glad she didn't get held up, she deserved the downgrades.

 

[puhijun]

well, I believe Miki, as much as I like her as a skater and a person, she didn't perform artistically in the competition, which is weird since she was pretty good at the SP. I think that was the one killed the Miki, even though she did the nicer jumps than Yukari; what judges are trying to say by low PCS for Miki is possibly that the figure skating is not a jump competition, but rather an intricate sport with artistry.