Lambiel and Cizeron together "On ice perspectives"

[Flying Feijoa]

I'd actually be quite interested to see a pro-am competition (of the Japan Open sort) with elite skaters in nontraditional pairings, maybe using some iteration of the 6.0 system to allow them more leeway to experiment with programme content. In addition to P/H and C/L maybe we could get White/Moir vs Davis/Virtue?
Speaking of sibling teams, if we can convince Bruce to go back to ice dance maybe we could also have Waddell/Waddell vs Fear/Fear

 

[4everchan]

Speaking of sibling teams, if we can convince Bruce to go back to ice dance maybe we could also have Waddell/Waddell vs Fear/Fear

HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!! Nice one !!
I'd like to see Poje/Sorensen and Fournier-Beaudry-Virtue

 

[Mathman]

This looks like a very artistic exploration through skating of two people supporting each other through emotional struggles.

I agree. It is Ice Theater rather than than the type of competitive or show program that we usually watch, analyze and and comment on.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!! Nice one !!
I'd like to see Poje/Sorensen and Fournier-Beaudry-Virtue

Skaters may complain about the ice melting...

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Oh for Chrissake... we are not talking about them having sex on the ice!

Lol, just imagine the threads on here: Who did it better and, more importantly, is it true art?

 

[brakes]

Started with "dogmatic" and "autoritative", now "affront" and "homophobic" arrived - all towards a person who dared to politely criticize the idea of same-sex pairs in figure skating.

Actually, I shouldn't be surprised.
Introducing such pairs would be a revolutionary change and revolutionaries despise dialogue and critique, considering themselves bearers of the only truth.

 

[TallyT]

considering themselves bearers of the only truth.

Hello Pot, I have Kettle on the line.

 

[icewhite]

I'm not really interested in leading this discussion further since it will be fruitless, but I want to say I don't think anything I have said was impolite. I have deliberately left open the possibility that people are very traditional and don't like to see any change by principle.

 

[skatesofgold]

This is ridiculous. In sports acrobatics, there are same sex pairs and groups.

 

[4everchan]

This is ridiculous. In sports acrobatics, there are same sex pairs and groups.

Just leaving this here.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Oh for Chrissake... we are not talking about them having sex on the ice! (I do not want to see ANYONE, male or female doing that thank you very much). Why are you assuming that the only possible artistic expression worth expressing has to be erotic? I mentioned dance pairings including Astaire/Kelly and Kelly/O'Connor (and there are plenty of others in film history) which are every bit as artistic and wonderful as male/female duets.

I take it you also find the sibling skating unnatural and therefor unaesthetic? Because if you do not, your argument is disengenuous.

(Why am I coming on The Edge? But I must react to this beautiful duo. Their side-by-side steps were perhaps not absolutely faultless, but this was sooo moving! And, also, Guillaume Cizeron is French and Stéphane Lambiel is Valaisan, but of course I can't be biased. French people are well known for their national impartiality in sports.)
I believe that you, in a provocative manner, and gkelly, are spot-on.
There is a whole school of thought about Ice Dance, that it has to have sexual innuendo, which prejudice (seemingly well rooted in some judges) siblings Ice Dancers had to fight against, and in turn Gabriella Papadakis and Guillaume Cizeron, as their wonderful "alchemy" was quite brotherly and not sexual at all. I remember a critic in that sense by Marina Zueva (but I'm ready to bet that should she coach some day the Brown siblings, she would change her mind on the question). How people with "traditional" moral values (which reprove homosexuality) can support that belief and enforce its hegemony in Ice Dance, that's what I can't understand, but it's another story. The "alchemy" between Guillaume Cizeron and Stéphane Lambiel is just as brotherly/friendly and I feel that they convey very movingly a sense of support in adversity, and humanity in general, so I don't see the problem either... except to those who think that there must be sexual innuendos in Ice Dance. I would say, why not simply watching them skate and not call it Ice Dance? If it can help...
Watching them reminded me this clip (Sasanqua, by Sekai no Owari), also about brotherly help in adversity, with a painter younger brother nearly drowning of not achieving to express what he meant, and his elder brother keeping supporting it, until this very support gave the right inspiration to the younger one:

Spoiler: Sasanqua Single Skating program

 

[4everchan]

Just for pointers ^^ Zueva coached the Shibutanis. I don't have a fabulous opinion of her, but she has worked with siblings.

 

[icetug]

If I may go back to the performance itself. The music used here is Symphony No. 3 (precisely, a fragment of its first movement) by the Polish composer Henryk Mikołaj Górecki. For the soprano, the composer chose one of the oldest surviving texts in Polish, found in a monastery in the Świętokrzyskie Mountains. This text is a lament of Our Lady standing under the cross, saying goodbye to her dying son.

Khoudia Toure, who choreographed the performance, is a street dancer, performer and creator from Senegal. For several years she has been coming to Champery, where she gives hip hop classes during 3S summer camps.

I don't know if this information will help in watching and interpreting this performance, but I just wanted to draw attention to how universal the language of dance is. Medieval song and contemporary music; classical music and hip hop; a single skater and an ice dancer... many different element create a coherent performance thanks to this universality.

 

[yesterday]

Lol, just imagine the threads on here: Who did it better and, more importantly, is it true art?

and what's the deduction for?!?

 

[TallyT]

If I may go back to the performance itself. The music used here is Symphony No. 3 (precisely, a fragment of its first movement) by the Polish composer Henryk Mikołaj Górecki. For the soprano, the composer chose one of the oldest surviving texts in Polish, found in a monastery in the Świętokrzyskie Mountains. This text is a lament of Our Lady standing under the cross, saying goodbye to her dying son.

Khoudia Toure, who choreographed the performance, is a street dancer, performer and creator from Senegal. For several years she has been coming to Champery, where she gives hip hop classes during 3S summer camps.

I don't know if this information will help in watching and interpreting this performance, but I just wanted to draw attention to how universal the language of dance is. Medieval song and contemporary music; classical music and hip hop; a single skater and an ice dancer... many different element create a coherent performance thanks to this universality.

Love this, thank you so much.

 

[TallyT]

I should add that thanks to this discussion I had a dream last night of the Keegan twins (this was a dream, there were two of them) doing a rather... interesting (aka physically impossible) routine to a distinctly weird version of You've Got a Friend in Me.

Thanks... I think.

 

[Magill]

This is ridiculous. In sports acrobatics, there are same sex pairs and groups.

In fact, same sex dances (although mostly in groups) were present in many traditions of old when it was actually unmarried people of different sex being in too close physical proximity that was frowned upon. It only changed later. So, well.... nothing really that untraditional about it

 

[brakes]

I hope same-sex pairs figure skating will never be introduced as it would negatively impact the popularity of already struggling sport. The last thing ISU needs is to scare off or discourage traditional societies and countries, which make up most of world's population. It would be very risky step, potentially very damaging to the future of present aspiring female skaters from religious/traditional countries for instance.

 

[4everchan]

I hope same-sex pairs figure skating will never be introduced as it would negatively impact the popularity of already struggling sport. The last thing ISU needs is to scare off or discourage traditional societies and countries, which make up most of world's population. It would be very risky step, potentially very damaging to the future of present aspiring female skaters from religious/traditional countries for instance.

Actually, the idea behind opening the gender specific traditions of the sport is aimed to do exactly the opposite. It's quite well-known that there are less men in the sport of figure skating, in proportion to the women. Opening it up will allow for young girls to partner up with another girl to acquire dance/pairs skills without having to change clubs or travel to another city. Those traditional societies and countries can stick to their ways if they wish to do so but it will not impact negatively the popularity of the sport where this movement is coming from. Skate Canada has started this move and already has implemented it in the scoring of events. I am looking forward to seeing how it will evolve, though I think it will probably not have much of an effect on elite skaters, but mostly at the developmental stage first.

 

[brakes]

Actually, the idea behind opening the gender specific traditions of the sport is aimed to do exactly the opposite. It's quite well-known that there are less men in the sport of figure skating, in proportion to the women. Opening it up will allow for young girls to partner up with another girl to acquire dance/pairs skills without having to change clubs or travel to another city. Those traditional societies and countries can stick to their ways if they wish to do so but it will not impact negatively the popularity of the sport where this movement is coming from. Skate Canada has started this move and already has implemented it in the scoring of events. I am looking forward to seeing how it will evolve, though I think it will probably not have much of an effect on elite skaters, but mostly at the developmental stage first.

Few years ago I watched a documentary on pioneer young girl skaters in one of the Arabic countries. Somehow they managed to get a coach from some Asian post-Soviet state (iirc Kazakhstan) and installed on a rink in a shopping center of some bigger city. Skated with their legs covered, surprisingly with no hijabs, maybe due to the young age.
The coaches and parents were saying that only way to exist and quietly evolve for them is basically being under the radar and slowly convince more and more people that the sport is not harmful to traditional Islamic society and position of woman within it.
Introducing same-sex pairs dancing would be very controversial and widely publicized reform, met with inevitable backlash from religious/traditional majority of Islamic societies, which is the last thing those young aspiring skaters need.

But again, revolutionaries never cared, never care and will never care about consequences and potential victims of their rapid actions.