Lambiel announces retirement

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Joubert does speak interestingly about money. He doesn't need it, presumably the French Fed takes care of all that. Stephane, on the other hand, seems to be skating for the money, and what the reasons are, are not clear. I do not think the Swiss Fed gives him much if anything. I remember when he lost to Joubert in that Euros some years ago,I went to his website and saw that his fans were donating money so that he could travel to other venues - like 2003 Worlds.

There is also the possibility that he is aware his injuries will always hold him back. So he will try to make as much money as he can while he is able and continue with his life, What Stephane will do in his retirement is not yet known.

 

[Binthere]

In thinking about how much has changed in just the past 2 seasons, I think the final group in Vancouver will include plenty of surprises. The dark horses in my book are Rippon and Brezhina

 

[museksk8r]

If asked to predict right now, I would say either Daisuke or Nobunari will be the next Olympic champion.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Since the thread is about Lambiel, I will predict he will not skate the 2009 Worlds.

Any other predictions seem to be based on past performances without any input from the current season. There is a Worlds thread in the Competition and Events Folder.

 

[aaron]

Thanks for the translation rosee!

So his point is;
I'm the best because I have technical difficulties and great determnation,
unlike Buttle and Lambiel?

I can't stop loving this guy:agree:

 

[Blades of Passion]

Joubert, thinks already about 2010 and remains cautious. "I don't want to be 100% this season. I want to keep some ressources for the olympic year. The year I became world champion, I had 3 quads in my program."

W.T.F.

What a LIAR he is! Joubert did 1 Quad in his LP in 2007 when he won. Tentatively planning 3 doesn't mean you actually did 3. :disagree:

His excuse for losing the LP in 2007, when he didn't do those jumps, was that he wanted to have a clean skate.

Then he reprimands others for not having enough tech content when he himself leaves it out ALL the time.

What a joke.

 

[Snowgirl]

He said he did 3 quads that year, not in that actual skate at Worlds.

 

[Buttercup]

Joubert did 1 Quad in his LP in 2007 when he won. Tentatively planning 3 doesn't mean you actually did 3. :disagree:

His excuse for losing the LP in 2007, when he didn't do those jumps, was that he wanted to have a clean skate.

As Snowgirl has pointed out, he said he did 3 quads that season, which is true: it happened at the Cup of Russia, and he scored his personal best for an LP. He did not say he did them at Worlds; at the time he was returning from a foot injury and wasn't 100%, so chances are he wouldn't have gone clean trying to do the original tech content. It was the right thing to do, and he was fortunate to have had a big enough lead from the SP to make it possible. I think the statement itself was meant to lower expectations so that he'd be skating under less pressure.

Now, I realize I'm hardly one to preach, but could we please stop discussing Brian on this thread? Let's get him his own thread, if people are interested in doing an analysis of his various statements and decisions.

Stephane, on the other hand, seems to be skating for the money, and what the reasons are, are not clear. I do not think the Swiss Fed gives him much if anything. I remember when he lost to Joubert in that Euros some years ago,I went to his website and saw that his fans were donating money so that he could travel to other venues - like 2003 Worlds.

I didn't know that - a real shame that a federation would do that to any skater, let alone a world-class one like Lambiel. It's certainly to his credit that he accomplished all he did despite this.

 

[SailorGalaxia518]

W.T.F.

What a LIAR he is! Joubert did 1 Quad in his LP in 2007 when he won. Tentatively planning 3 doesn't mean you actually did 3. :disagree:

His excuse for losing the LP in 2007, when he didn't do those jumps, was that he wanted to have a clean skate.

Then he reprimands others for not having enough tech content when he himself leaves it out ALL the time.

What a joke.

He meant was that the season that he won the World Title he had 3 quads which he did at the 2006 Cup of Russia. He did not say that he actually did the 3 quads at the 2007 worlds

 

[libby]

As Snowgirl has pointed out, he said he did 3 quads that season, which is true: it happened at the Cup of Russia, and he scored his personal best for an LP. He did not say he did them at Worlds; at the time he was returning from a foot injury and wasn't 100%, so chances are he wouldn't have gone clean trying to do the original tech content. It was the right thing to do, and he was fortunate to have had a big enough lead from the SP to make it possible. I think the statement itself was meant to lower expectations so that he'd be skating under less pressure.

Now, I realize I'm hardly one to preach, but could we please stop discussing Brian on this thread?

Well, you could stop discussing Brian in this thread, Buttercup, but you don't seem to want to..............:chorus:

 

[Tonichelle]

I didn't know that - a real shame that a federation would do that to any skater, let alone a world-class one like Lambiel. It's certainly to his credit that he accomplished all he did despite this.

Agreed. But isn't his federation decidedly smaller than that of the French/Canadian/Russian/US? so it makes sense that they can't pay for as much.

 

[Medusa]

Neue Zürcher Zeitung - new article

Apparently there were a few problems in New Jersey... It's a comment, the author doesn't really quote any sources, but considering that this is no tabloid but one of the most respected newspapers in Europe, it's probably not completely imaginary what she is saying (it's actually one of the oldest newspapers in the world, which of course doesn't automatically mean that the quality is good). It's long, so I will only translate small parts.

Stéphane seemed to be in a very good mood after press conference - but the author of the article thinks that that was rather forced happiness. She then goes on to tell the reader when and why Stéphane left Switzerland, that some people have always advised him to look for a more professional training environment etc.

[...]
With his goal the Olympic gold medal in mind Lambiel was ready to risk it. The boredom had the name "Wayne" and is in New Jersey. The Russian Viktor Petrenko, Olympic Champion in Albertville 1992, is a good guy. The ISU uses the videos of his programs back then to demonstrate the judges a perfect Triple Axel. Lambiel picked this man as his new coach. To simplify matters Lambiel moved in with the family, only 10 minutes away from the rink. The 11-year-old little daughter adopted him as her new brother. In retrospect the Valaisan tries to emphasise the positive aspects of the American suburb idyll (?). Everyone was very nice. But he calls his old coach more and more often. There are problems. Why is he supposed to do the spins the same way the American Johnny Weir, who shares the ice with him, does them? After a short time he finds out that his coach isn't really Petrenko but his mother-in-law. Galina Zmievskaya is a figure-skating-general of the old Soviet school. She apparently threatens the skaters from time to time. If the Flip isn't working there will be no dinner. Her former pupil and son-in-law doesn't make any decision without her. The last straw may very well have been what happened during the planning for the Grand Prix in France (scheduled for mid-november). Zmievskaya would have been occupied somewhere else and Lambiel wanted to have his choreographer Salomé Brunner with him as a supporter at the competition, along with Petrenko. But the powerful (?) Russian woman said no. What was a 23-year-old supposed to do then? Continue being sensible?

"Perhaps Wayne was a letdown and he didn't want to admit it to himself" pondered Peter Grütter, his (Lambiel's) long time figure skating coach from Geneva. Four weeks ago a sport medicine specialist from Munich diagnosed, according to Brunner who accompanied Lambiel, that the current pain will wear off, that it is just a remainder of the adductor injury. Perhaps wrong decisions can also cause phantom pains.
[...]

The article continues to talk about Plushenko's surprise when he heard about Stéphane's retirement and about the fact that Stéphane doesn't seem to have a real plan for the future.

-------------------------------------

Now my opinion to this . First of all, if this was a text to analyse, I would say that there are lots of "perhaps" and use of the subjunctive. But I guess the author interviewed Grütter and Brunner (have in mind that Switzerland is really small, which means that the journalists probably know lots of athletes and their teams in person). Now to the content.

They wanted him to learn Weir's spins? Nothing against Weir's spins, they are very good and solid - but not outstanding. The only rational explanation that comes to my mind is that they perhaps wanted to reduce the risk of injury (Stéphane talked in Japan, I think, about the pain he feels during the spins, how hard they are on his body etc.).

The thing with Zmievskaya being his actual coach and not Petrenko - well, I kind of expected that. After all Petrenko doesn't really have any experience. And that Zmievskaya is strict can't be too unexpected either. The thing with TEB seems to be rather minor though.

Perhaps we'll never know the real reasons. Because if he had been just uncomfortable in the US, he could have just returned to Europe. After he switched coaches Lambiel said that he thought about retirement right after Worlds - perhaps he just thought that going to the US is his last try to get back on track - and when that didn't work out so well he decided to retire for good.

After reading this article and others that elaborated a bit more, I wouldn't be too surprised if he reemerges in a few months or a year with new fantastic programs and reunited with his old team. Whatever he does, I just hope he will be sincerely happy with his decisions.

 

[Blades of Passion]

He meant was that the season that he won the World Title he had 3 quads which he did at the 2006 Cup of Russia. He did not say that he actually did the 3 quads at the 2007 worlds

His wording certainly insinuates that he did.

He said he had 3 Quads in his program the year he won Worlds.

Okay, so which program? You perform it many times throughout the year (season). By saying Worlds that's pretty much where you expect he did it. Otherwise, what does it matter?

Regardless of that, he still doesn't seem to understand math. In the program where he DID do those 3 Quads, he left the difficult combinations out.

He continues to criticize Buttle for "not having all the technical difficulties" when Buttle did all of the combination jumps and Brian did not (Double Axel-Single Toeloop combination, LOL!), in addition to Buttle having all Level 4 spins and Brian having Level 2 and 3 spins.

The REAL fact of the matter is that Joubert has never matched the highest technical content achieved by Alexei Yagudin, Evgeni Plushenko, Timothy Goebel, and also Daisuke Takahashi. I just wish that someone could get all of this across to him so that we can be rid of his endless babbling.

 

[Buttercup]

But can you argue that the technical content of both of Jeffrey Buttle's programs at 2008 Worlds was among the most difficult we've seen? The programs were excellent, and well presented, and Buttle was a deserving winner. But his winning margin was mostly from spins and GOEs, not because he did the most difficult jumps or combos possible (e.g. 4-3, 3-3-3). Also, he skated two clean progams, which is sadly becoming a rarity. But was the jump content stronger than in Stephane Lambiel's winning LP from 2006 Worlds? Strangely, Stephane's spins there were mostly level 3s with one level 2 - must have been some CoP thing.

As several skaters and commentators have said, CoP still needs more work, and it demands things that many skaters cannot sustain over time without risking serious injuries.

 

[merrybari]

As several skaters and commentators have said, CoP still needs more work, and it demands things that many skaters cannot sustain over time without risking serious injuries.

There you have it in a nutshell! That the CoP still needs more work is putting it mildly! And the risk of injury to meet it's demands is the most scary of all.

 

[iluvtodd]

There you have it in a nutshell! That the CoP still needs more work is putting it mildly! And the risk of injury to meet it's demands is the most scary of all.

Amen! :agree:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I hope we finished talking about Joubert. I have no clue as to why his fans do not open a thread for him.

Back to LAMBIEL: That Swiss Newspaper Article says a lot I didn't know. He didn't get Petrenko as a coach but Galina who if I read correctly was going to sovietize his style. There was no animosity towards Johnny and I could not imagine otherwise. They are friendly rivals.

I can understand his low point from Gotenberg and Wayne as a last resort. It just didn't work out for him. Sad, indeed, it brought about the retirement. Perhaps as one of his multitude of fans will hope that after the rest, he will begin working for the 2010 Olys.

 

[nylynnr]

I don't think Lambiel's retirement announcement had too much to do with disappointment in New Jersey. Galina did not pick out his music and for the most part did not do the choreography. The tango certainly doesn't look like anything Weir or a "Soviet" skater would do. Plus, Lambiel was only there for about five weeks in the beginning of the summer, then back again for maybe a week or two at the end of September -- beginning of October, before abruptly announcing his retirement. I also don't think a petite lady could withhold food from a 23-year-old man with his own car and money, and Stephane enjoyed living with Nina and Viktor, going to the ballet with them, etc.

More to the point was that he was having big problems with his jumps, and his injury also troubled him with several of his spins. IMO he got tired of fighting the pain and lacked the motivation to push through. He's been around a long time so that's understandable.

This isn't the first time Lambiel has called an abrupt press conference and withdrawn from competition, and his move to Galina was not the first time he left Grutter. Again, just my opinion, but I think we will see him return.

 

[KayMil01]

In a tv interview with Stephane today, he was asked about a return, and Stephane said that he thinks it would be impossible to come back after a year's time, because he said after not training properly for 7 months due to the injury, it was hard to skate now, and he wouldn't be at his best. So, I'm not sure if he'll even want to return for the Olympic season
But then again, he's changed his mind many times before. I hope he will be back...ya never know.

 

[antmanb]

But can you argue that the technical content of both of Jeffrey Buttle's programs at 2008 Worlds was among the most difficult we've seen? The programs were excellent, and well presented, and Buttle was a deserving winner. But his winning margin was mostly from spins and GOEs, not because he did the most difficult jumps or combos possible (e.g. 4-3, 3-3-3).

But to be fair neither did Joubert - his most difficult combination was 3F/3T - the same one that Buttle completed only without the -GOE for wrong edge take off. Joubert's second combination was a 2A/1T which compared to Buttles 3A/2T/2Lo doesn't even begin to compete. Buttle also had a 3Lz/2T.

I'm sure I did this at the time but here goes, the jumps including GOE and second half bonuses for Buttle and Joubert:

Buttle
3A/2T/2Lo 10.59
3F/3T 10.79
3A 7.79
3Lz/2T x 9.03
3Lo x 6.64
3S x 5.95
2A x 4.85
3Lz x 6.60

TOTAL: 62.24

Joubert
4T 10.29
3S 5.93
3A 8.79
3F/3T x 9.59
3Lz x 7.46
3Lo x 5.50
3F x 5.05
2A/1T x 4.29

TOTAL: 56.9

So that's a difference of 5.34 - something Joubert was never going to make up in his final jumping pass. If you look at the jump layout above and his previous competitions Joubert must have been planning 4T/3T to open given the combo off the flip repeats the toe loop he would have been Zayaked out by his final jump which, i think was always intended to be a double axel. The only way he might have made it up was by trying a 3A, but as the final jumping pass that would have been tough.

Looking then to non jump technical elements (including GOE) Buttle had 22.05 points with all four spins called level 4 and both step sequences called level 3.

Joubert had 17.21 with two of his spins called level 2, the other two called level 3 and both step sequences called level 3. He didn't have bad GOEs on those so the message to Brian is get your spins up to level 3s and 4s.

Ant