latest from Ms. Cohen
- Thread starter berthes ghost
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
A clean Sasha, imo, which includes a quad will win over all her competitors. Her performance is arguably the best.
BTW, we have not seen scores for MK in the CoP system, and we have seen CoP scores for Sasha. Sasha's presentation scores are higher than her technical scores, and I believe the total scores were in the 170s. Am I correct? It seems to me that the presentation scores run higher than the technical scores. Am I correct?
I'm just thinking strategy for MK, Irina, and Sasha too, for that matter, that risking a performance with a big miss in the techncial is not worth it and if it happens to be a success, it is not an instant win because the high scores come with the presentation. Again, am I correct?
Joe
BTW, we have not seen scores for MK in the CoP system, and we have seen CoP scores for Sasha. Sasha's presentation scores are higher than her technical scores, and I believe the total scores were in the 170s. Am I correct? It seems to me that the presentation scores run higher than the technical scores. Am I correct?
I'm just thinking strategy for MK, Irina, and Sasha too, for that matter, that risking a performance with a big miss in the techncial is not worth it and if it happens to be a success, it is not an instant win because the high scores come with the presentation. Again, am I correct?
Joe
Joe,
Sasha's total scores at SA, SC, and TL were each about 197. At the GPF, where she had three falls IIRC, her score was about 177.
It's not as easy with the COP to divide the element and component scores into technical and presentation scores as one can with the 6.0 system. What I would say is that her total component scores (TCS) were consistently high, whereas the consistent mistakes on her elements--at least one fall or two-foot landing--tended to cost her. However, up until the GPF, her lowest lead over the second place finisher was about 10 points (SC) and her highest lead over second was about 30 points (TL).
Re your analysis and question:
"I'm just thinking strategy for MK, Irina, and Sasha too, for that matter, that risking a performance with a big miss in the techncial is not worth it and if it happens to be a success, it is not an instant win because the high scores come with the presentation. Again, am I correct?"
This is a tough question to answer since skaters who fall on difficult elements still get some credit. With the men, the data, insufficient as they were, on whether it was better to try a quad and fail than not try one and skate clean seemed to slightly favor the men who tried quads. But again, this is based on very limited data.
It's very difficult to try to anticipate what a skater like Miki Ando or Carilina Kostner might be like in two years. Right now they're presentation skills are weak compared to Kwan and Cohen, plus their inconsistency makes Sasha looks consistent. Plus there are other "youngin's" like Yukina Ota, Bebe Liang, and Mao Asado, to name ust a few. Any of the aforementioned skaters could either break through at just the right time or a growth spurt might ruin their chances. Also, there's no telling how skaters like Fumie, Shizuka, and Onda might develop in terms of 3/3s and consistency--and presentation in Onda's case. OTOH, in Cohen's case, working on 3/3s and quads means increased risk of injury.
Bottom line, it's a tough thing to try to strategize thinking years ahead no matter how you look at it. I don't think there is a correct or incorrect way of looking at it. I think each skater has to try to choose the best coach for her, work intelligently with that coach, and in the end after all the work is done, hope for the best.
But I still have a gut feeling Michelle is going to win the OGM in '06
Rgirl
Sasha's total scores at SA, SC, and TL were each about 197. At the GPF, where she had three falls IIRC, her score was about 177.
It's not as easy with the COP to divide the element and component scores into technical and presentation scores as one can with the 6.0 system. What I would say is that her total component scores (TCS) were consistently high, whereas the consistent mistakes on her elements--at least one fall or two-foot landing--tended to cost her. However, up until the GPF, her lowest lead over the second place finisher was about 10 points (SC) and her highest lead over second was about 30 points (TL).
Re your analysis and question:
"I'm just thinking strategy for MK, Irina, and Sasha too, for that matter, that risking a performance with a big miss in the techncial is not worth it and if it happens to be a success, it is not an instant win because the high scores come with the presentation. Again, am I correct?"
This is a tough question to answer since skaters who fall on difficult elements still get some credit. With the men, the data, insufficient as they were, on whether it was better to try a quad and fail than not try one and skate clean seemed to slightly favor the men who tried quads. But again, this is based on very limited data.
It's very difficult to try to anticipate what a skater like Miki Ando or Carilina Kostner might be like in two years. Right now they're presentation skills are weak compared to Kwan and Cohen, plus their inconsistency makes Sasha looks consistent. Plus there are other "youngin's" like Yukina Ota, Bebe Liang, and Mao Asado, to name ust a few. Any of the aforementioned skaters could either break through at just the right time or a growth spurt might ruin their chances. Also, there's no telling how skaters like Fumie, Shizuka, and Onda might develop in terms of 3/3s and consistency--and presentation in Onda's case. OTOH, in Cohen's case, working on 3/3s and quads means increased risk of injury.
Bottom line, it's a tough thing to try to strategize thinking years ahead no matter how you look at it. I don't think there is a correct or incorrect way of looking at it. I think each skater has to try to choose the best coach for her, work intelligently with that coach, and in the end after all the work is done, hope for the best.
But I still have a gut feeling Michelle is going to win the OGM in '06
Rgirl
Good evening Rgirl,
I enjoy reading your long, thoughtful, & knowledgeable posts, though I don't always agree w/you, but that's the beauty of humankind ~ differing opinions/POVs/attitudes/etc. ~ how boring the world would be if we were all alike. Btw, more often than not I usually take away some kernel of knowledge from your posts; same goes for Joesitz and many others, which is one of the many reasons why Golden Skate is my board of choice & is the only board I post at despite reading various MBs, newsgroups, forums on the net (love learning, no lie). That said, I wanted to comment on a few specifics of your following post:
Peace & Love, Nadine
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3632169/1075883797883_asban.jpg
MODIFIED TO ADD: found it, Tada! Here's the article, posted right here on Golden Skate, as part of their wonderful "Articles Section" {two thumbs way up}: http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2003/121803.shtml
***Note: also mentions how she loves music like "Malaguena, Carmen, et al" b/c it's the music she feels most naturally (aha, knew it, extension of her personality) & also mentions how she started practicing the quad @ at age 16.***
I enjoy reading your long, thoughtful, & knowledgeable posts, though I don't always agree w/you, but that's the beauty of humankind ~ differing opinions/POVs/attitudes/etc. ~ how boring the world would be if we were all alike. Btw, more often than not I usually take away some kernel of knowledge from your posts; same goes for Joesitz and many others, which is one of the many reasons why Golden Skate is my board of choice & is the only board I post at despite reading various MBs, newsgroups, forums on the net (love learning, no lie). That said, I wanted to comment on a few specifics of your following post:
Rgirl said:I forget who said it sounded like Sasha was working on a 3lp/3lp, but in her online diary, she didn't say. Anyway, I can't imagine why she'd go to the 3lp/3lp--killer of hip sockets--when she has always worked on the 3Lutz/3t? To go to a whole new 3/3 two months before Worlds just doesn't make sense to me, especially to the 3lp/3lp.
ME: aha, I recall this article! It came out some time around the GPF........meant to comment upon it but never found the time.........must find it b/c it was in this section of Golden Skate (great article btw). Anyhow, Sasha specifically said that she would be working on the 3R/3R combo. in preparation, I think, for Worlds. At the time I, too, initially thought that was rather odd b/c of the 3Z/3T that she landed @ 2003 Worlds, and which I thought was the only triple-triple that she was interested in due to it being the most difficult triple-triple, other than the 3Z/3R (which Miki Ando does). However, after thinking about it for a while, I can see why she would want to do the 3R/3R rather than the 3Z/3T ~ her 3R jump is one that she excels at, same goes for the 3S ~ she's an innate "edge" jumper, same thing goes for Sarah Hughes, whom also wanted to do the 3R/3R but couldn't b/c in order to do TWO triple-triples she needed to break it up & do 3S/3R & 3T/3R. But, that's NOT the case for Sasha......she only needs ONE triple-triple (not two)......and thus why not pick the triple-triple that will incorporate the most difficult "edge" jump, and which she excels in ~ thee 3R/3R!Heck of a lot better choice than any triple-triple that includes the 3T (her most inconsistent jump) & also one that doesn't include the 3Z (which shows off her flutz). JMHO. ***Note: though I do think Sasha has to eventually make up her mind on which ONE she is going to work on & stick with it in order to gain consistency - too much switching around is no good IMHO.***
but for the women--all of them--anything less than a 1/2 turn prerotation, plus no two-foot landings and a clean run-out would get full credit from me--not that there's a snowflake's chance in my microwave of me ever judgingLadie's doing quads with that extra hip width and lower center of mass--that's an amazing feat! Even Tim Goebel has said that the only reason he can do quads relatively easily is because of the way he's built, which is extremely narrow hips and waist and relatively wide shoulders.
ME: ITA! GOOOOOOO LADIES
As I said before though, I don't think Sasha needs a 3/3 for this Worlds nor a quad for the Olympics.
ME: ITA........stick to one difficult triple-triple (ala 3R/3R) & 5 other triples for the Olympics; basically same thing she did at 2002 Olympics & Worlds, but this time skated cleanly (crossing fingers)........and only 6 or 7 triples for this upcoming Worlds, perhaps a couple of them combined w/a few double jumps (like at US Nationals). JMHO of course.
I'd rather see Sasha work on adding depth to her presentation, becoming a truly deep edge skater with Oksana Baiul-like speed and flow (talking Oksana at her peak
ME: ah, Rgirl, I cannot pass up the chance to talk about an all-time favorite of mine (ala Oksana Baiul).........and I agree w/what you stated up above.........Oksana was & is fast (similar to Carolina Kostner in this aspect IMHO) & her flow across the ice was also exceptional, but especially the seamlessness in the way she flowed from one move to the other (ah, memories). But more than that, she had soul like I've never seen before or since (no lie), but then again I AM a very biased Oksana Fan.
True, 3/3s were done back in the '80s, but back than skaters didn't have a season made up of 12 major events. In the '80s and early '90s, the skaters were pretty much only trying 3/3s at Nats and Worlds, plus the Olympics.
ME: no, I have to disagree w/you here, Rgirl.........back in the 80's skaters were doing GP events (some called by different names but nevertheless GP events)........for instance, NHK Trophy has been around forever, likewise Trophee Lalique. Not to mention local championships.
Peace & Love, Nadine
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3632169/1075883797883_asban.jpg
MODIFIED TO ADD: found it, Tada!
Here's the article, posted right here on Golden Skate, as part of their wonderful "Articles Section" {two thumbs way up}: http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2003/121803.shtml***Note: also mentions how she loves music like "Malaguena, Carmen, et al" b/c it's the music she feels most naturally (aha, knew it, extension of her personality) & also mentions how she started practicing the quad @ at age 16.***
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