"Legend" - who really is one?

[Joesitz]

Who is a Legend?

I reiterate my statement: Leave the title of <span style="colorurple;font-size:medium;">LEGEND</span> to the sports writers, and we can list our nominees (most likely our current favorites).

Joe

 

[Patchris]

Re: Who is a Legend?

Legends:
Gordeeva/Grinkov

 

[mathman444]

Re: Who is a Legend?

I'm late! Is this the place to vote for Michelle?

I think that it is premature to call anyone a "legend" while he or she is still competing. Only history can make that judgement.

But the thing to remember about Michelle is this. She is not just the (seven time) United States Champion. She is the Champion of the World.

Mathman

 

[LAVENDER]

Re: Who is a Legend?

Michelle is an icon now but she will be a legend.,

I don't know but I think Tara could have been an icon but I don't think she is.

Kurt
Scott
BB
Kristi
Kat
Katia are universal all icons.

Irina
Alexei
Plushenko are icons (definitely in Russia)

Legendary status is too hard to predict but I can tell you who aren't icons or legends.

 

[emiC]

legend/ icons

Lavendar

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Legendary status is too hard to predict but I can tell you who aren't icons or legends[/quote]

ITA.

Anke

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>unfortunately counting is not one of them ... However - since you obviously know it all, I'm impatiently looking forward to your first real contribution to this thread: The "coming out" of your list of legends; I'm sure it will be totally balanced and unbiased[/quote]

Anke, I can't count thats right. That is why we have professor Mathman here, he holds math court every day at 4 pm ET, or 10 pm Greenwich time. I don't have a complete list, Joesitz,and Lavendar do not have a list either. I do not know it all, just was forutnate enough to see one of your legend's <strong>(in)famous lost program</strong> at COI.

This thread is a discussion on our ideas of legends, we can still contribute w/o making a list. BTW, I said Tiger Woods is a legend. Others athletes on my list: Russell and Chamberlain for sure, not old enough to watch their famous rivalry.

I actually agreed with your inital definition of a legend, I even agreed with a few of your choices, just disagree with some others.

I agree with Joesitz sports writers are more used to name legends.

 

[realistic51]

Re: legend/ icons

Well, my first thought was-whatever! Then I thought, why not?

Ok, here's what I think. Both Dick Button and Peggy Fleming have referred to Michelle Kwan as a legend in figure skating. I think Dick Button is a legend, Brian Boitano is a legend, and G/G are legends. Toller Cranston and John Curry.

Tiger Woods has been called a legend in the field of golf by some sports commentators. Muhammad Ali is a legend in boxing. Pete Sampras, John McEnroe, and Bjorn Bork along with Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova and Steffi Graf are all considered legends in the sport of tennis.

Now I don't see any dead people up there. But there's plenty of legends that are no longer alive-i.e. John Lennon, Barry White, Secretariat (sorry, that's a horse), Man O' War, Seabiscuit. I mean, just depends on who writes the book!

 

[Ladskater]

Re: "Legend" - who really is one?

Toller Cranston is definitely a legend in skating not only for his contributions to the sport, but for his flamboyant manner. Toller was also never afraid to express his opinion about judging and what goes on behind the scenes in skating. <em>Everyone</em> in Canada knows the name <strong>Toller</strong> is synonymous with figure skating.

Donald Jackson, of course, is a legend for landing the first triple Lutz in a Worlds competition and for inspiring Canadian male skaters to "raise the bar higher."

Barbara Ann Scott - She will always be "Canada's Sweetheart." There is even a Barbara Ann Scott Doll! She is still revered by her peers as well as generations of Canadian figure skaters.

Robert Paul and Barbara Wagner - Probably the best pairs team Canada has produced - four time World champions and Olympic champions as well. They definitely left their "mark" on figure skating and are role models for Canadian pairs.

Of course, I would also add:

Karen Magnussen
Kurt Browning
Elvis Stojko
Brian Orser
Barbara Underhill and Paul Martini
Bourne and Kraatz

My non-Canadian list includes:

The Protopopovs
Irina Rodnina
Torvill and Dean
Sonja Henie

 

[Joesitz]

Re: "Legend" - who really is one?

Lots of favoritres and ethnic and national consciousness in these selections!

Again what is the criteria for the term Legend?

Joe

 

[BronzeisGolden02]

My Legends List

Sonja Henie
Carol Heiss
The Protopopovs
Peggy Fleming
Janet Lynn
Dorothy Hamill
Scott Hamilton
Torvill & Dean
Katarina Witt (Never my favorite, but her dominance during the 80s was exceptional and earned)
G & G
M & D
Midori Ito
Chen Lu ("Rach" from 96 Worlds was enough for me!)

After they've retired I would definitely add:
Alexei Yagudin
Michelle Kwan - Impressive dominance, wonderful attitude and extraordinary skating! Incredible how such an uncomplicated person could provoke such volatile and complicated discussions! Let those that adore her do that and those that don't follow their own course, it doesn't require a great mind to realize that and allow everyone their own personal preference.

 

[frozetoez]

Re: My Legends List

I think a skating fan's choices of who is a legend and who isn't comes purely from an emotional and nationalistic viewpoint.

For instance, someone who is a huge Irina Slutskaya fan would probably be less likely to name Michelle Kwan a "legend" because Michelle has had the audacity to beat their hero, Irina, on a few occasions.

Same thing can be said on the side of nationalism. How many Canadians would be quick to consider Brian Boitano a legend? The odds of that are slim to none. Most Canadians would rather die first. But, I think that in the U.S. Boitano's status is legendary.

I've noticed that most Canadians on this thread have named Kurt Browning as a legend or icon. As an American, I think Browning is a legend in Canada, but not a legend in the U.S. In skating circles he is, perhaps, an icon, but the average American doesn't know who Kurt Browning is.

Legendary status is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Kara Bear]

Re: Who is a Legend?

Anke, I love your posts!!! :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

 

[Joesitz]

Re: My Legends List

Speak for yourself Frozetoes. As an USA American I look at Kurt as the Best Ever male skater. That, of course, is my opinion. I also know of many other Americans who feel the same.

But for me, the term LEGEND does not come from the fans but from a skater displaying an excellent body of work as discussed by the sports writers.

In this thread, I am wondering if any skater has been left out of the legendary status?

Frozetoes - Your last comment is the right one. Legends are in the eyes of the beholder.

Joe

 

[Show 42]

Re: My Legends List

Hi frozetoez (love that name)......You're right....one person's "legend", may be another person's "ho-hum". 42

 

[ApacheApache]

Who is a Legend?

IMHO, in sports or even in the entertainment industry legends are not made by fans or media. It's the collective agreement by the peers, legends themselves, fans and the media that make a legend. And yes, there are living legends - Paul McCartney, the Rolling Stones, Elizabeth Taylor, Madonna...etc...etc...etc. Of course untimely death does do wonder in making instant legends, think James Dean. Let's take James Dean for example, 4 films and they weren't even great films except maybe Giant and he was a legend. Well, his fans certainly didn't make him one, it's the fans who suddenly came out and worshipped him after his death that got the media influenced. Soon after the media had endorsed him as one, the whole film industry went into agreement for some reason, hence a legend was made.

Fans don't make legends. Britney Spears' or Shania Twain's fans who number in tens of millions worldwide would certainly think she is one but so long as the media, the people in the industry do not endorse it, they aren't.

Back to skating, if Michelle is endorsed by peers, legends like Dick, Peggy, Dorothy, Carol H.Jenkins,..etc, her fans and lastly the media then she is one, it doesn't matter if she is alive or dead, retired or still skating. If only her fans think so, then she isn't. I don't agree that legends have to be known internationally or locally. In evey sport and the entertainment industry, there are legends that escape us but that doesn't mean they aren't.

 

[Jaana]

Re: Who is a Legend?

As far as I remember James Dean did only three movies so to speak: East of Eden, Rebel without a Cause and Giant. In some earlier ones he had only some very insignifiant part.

In Finland we got to see his movies after his dead. I remember reading American movie magazines trying to understand what was written about him although I had not had any English in the school in that time, LOL.

Marjaana

 

[ApacheApache]

Re: Who is a Legend?

Thanks for correcting me Jaana, I had always had the impression he did 4 films.

 

[mathman444]

Re: Who is a Legend?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"Anke, I love your posts" -- Kara Bear[/quote]Hey Kara, I'll make a deal with you. I'll root for Sasha at the U.S. Nationals if you'll help me convince Anke to like Michelle.:rollin: <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"Again, what is the criterion for the term legend" -- Joe[/quote]IMHO a person is a "legend" if he or she is still remembered with admiration and awe years after he or she dies or otherwise passes from the active scene. Apache points out that there are people who are regarded as "living legends." Still, think of Sonia Henie. She died in 1969, but she is still remembered (fondly or otherwise) by skating fans and the general public alike.

Dick Button's last major competition was in 1952. But he is still talked about in figure skating circles today.

When Michelle Kwan first started working with Lori Nichol, Lori sat her down and made her watch film clips of Janet Lynn. "Who's Janet Lynn," asked young Michelle. Lori told her, just watch, this is how I want you to learn to skate.

Years from now, will coaches and choreographers sit their young students down and show them clips of Michelle Kwan? "See, this is how I want you to skate one day."

About her own skating, Michelle has said on several occasions that some day, when she is a grandmother, that will be the time to look back on her career and evaluate what she accomplished in the sport. I agree.<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"Let those that adore her do that and those that don't follow their own course." -- Bronzeisgolden[/quote] Gosh, I wish I'd said that!

Mathman

 

[LAVENDER]

Not Canadian but..

I think when people take a look at his body of work they will see that Kurt is a legend.

He doesn't have BB & Scott's OGM but he's on the same level as they are.

 

[eltamina]

Legends and making deals

I still think legends are somewhat locally bound.

Sibeliius had written many tone poems based on Finnish legends. One example is the Lemminkainen legend.

www.musicweb.uk.net/class...Franck.htm

Honestly how many people outside of Finland knows about this story? (Classical music lovers are exceptions, but they know about the story through Sibeliuis music)

How many people outside of China knows about the legend of the herdsman and the Sun god's daughter? Kwan fans know because Kwan was born on the 7th day of the 7th month.

ITA, Legend is to the eye of the beholder. Michael Jordan, and Pete Sampras are on my list.


BTW, just teasing, MM I don't think you will come ahead or even with your deal. Your deal is done in 2 steps, you have to convince the convincer to like MK first.

Anke will never change her mind, just like the result of world competition 96 will never be changed. MK beat Lulu.

I like Anke, over the years I observed some Kwan fans are able to raise this to an art form. How not to let your chains be yanked. In that regard, I think you are excellent at it, but making deals?

 

[mathman444]

Re: Legends and making deals

:lol: You're getting pretty good at it yourself, ET.:lol: