Madison Chock & Evan Bates | Page 26 | Golden Skate

Madison Chock & Evan Bates

I don't think music choices have anything to do with C/B's placement. Last year the Shibs' Coldplay program was modern and could be considered "edgy" and it vaulted them to the top. The placements are strictly because USFS has decided to push the Shibs as US #1 even though Nationals was soooo close (and C/B would've won if not for some suspicious level calling). It really makes me sad to see Madi and Evan so happy with their performances only to be deflated over and over when the scores come up. They got great scores for both programs at the beginning of the season, so their material is just fine. It's just politics once again that are holding them down. :(:disagree:
 
TanithandBenFan said:
I don't think music choices have anything to do with C/B's placement. Last year the Shibs' Coldplay program was modern and could be considered "edgy" and it vaulted them to the top. The placements are strictly because USFS has decided to push the Shibs as US #1 even though Nationals was soooo close (and C/B would've won if not for some suspicious level calling). It really makes me sad to see Madi and Evan so happy with their performances only to be deflated over and over when the scores come up. They got great scores for both programs at the beginning of the season, so their material is just fine. It's just politics once again that are holding them down. :(:disagree:
Click to expand...

Would you admit that C/B received the same preferential treatment over the Shibs due to politics from 2013 to late 2015?
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
Would you admit that C/B received the same preferential treatment over the Shibs due to politics from 2013 to late 2015?
Click to expand...

The Shibs' programs and skating were uninspired during that period IMO. Until they found the Coldplay FD I felt like they were going through the motions. They also weren't skating as consistently as they are now. Both teams have upped their games this season and I don't think the gap between them should be widening in the scores. The skating does not reflect that.
 
TanithandBenFan said:
I don't think music choices have anything to do with C/B's placement. Last year the Shibs' Coldplay program was modern and could be considered "edgy" and it vaulted them to the top. The placements are strictly because USFS has decided to push the Shibs as US #1 even though Nationals was soooo close (and C/B would've won if not for some suspicious level calling). It really makes me sad to see Madi and Evan so happy with their performances only to be deflated over and over when the scores come up. They got great scores for both programs at the beginning of the season, so their material is just fine. It's just politics once again that are holding them down. :(:disagree:
Click to expand...

Can't compare Coldplay's music to Bowie's: apples and oranges. 'Fix You' is nothing like 'Under Pressure' in terms of style, melody and theme. The latter is provocative and commentary while the former is psychological ... metaphoric. 'Fix You' song's influence is more emotional while the other is more of a 'commentary' so it's little harder to relate to even harder to grasp or understand. I agree it's politics in play in the judging process but it's more an offshoot of cultural divide that is fundamentally generational. Coldplay's song is, emotionally, straightforward so its impact is more potent whereas Bowie's is somewhat political. Anyway, 'edginess' isn't the way to approach this type of competition - doesn't do well with the kind of judges we have in skating. This quality would suit better in a singing, acting, and dancing competition.
 
TanithandBenFan said:
The Shibs' programs and skating were uninspired during that period IMO. Until they found the Coldplay FD I felt like they were going through the motions. They also weren't skating as consistently as they are now. Both teams have upped their games this season and I don't think the gap between them should be widening in the scores. The skating does not reflect that.
Click to expand...

I admit I enjoyed the Shibs' program - kinda mindless entertainment. It reminds me of Balanchine's work where the music provides the form and framework for the choreographic composition (theme is not the driving force). P/C and the Shibs have learned to purposely adapt to the judging process and kudos to them for having done so successfully. V/M have stayed very much the same but there's more depth and substance to their style now. If they are able to control or manage their nerves, they'll win every time because their style is more well-liked ... curiously more acceptable. If you look back, they have adopted a style that judges seem to like, the style - reminiscent of T/D's 1984 Bolero ... ditto with P/C's winning FDs, V/M 2010 Mahler FD.
 
Last edited:
Although this a Chock and Bates thread, I'm bringing this up to illustrate a point regarding similar or identical movements, lifts, footwork sequence, etc... P/C's FD follows closely their coaches' _ watch this 2006 FD by Dubreuil- Lauzon _ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr5Lpn0UNto ... Same style ... movements by a different team. Even Hubbell and Donohue are going that route. With Dubreuil-Lauzon teams, they follow a more cohesive course; the Shibs are incorporating their own and blending it so well with Marina's. It's a skating marriage that works so well for them for now ... but for how long? I think Chock and Bates should rethink their approach: they should go back to their 2011-12 style _ softer, smoother ... lyrical ... classical, romantic. Angsty make them look more melodramatic and plebeian.
 
Last edited:
icekiwi said:
This is going to be my personal opinion - Rohene's ideas have always been a bit out of the box (which I am not a big fan) and the judges are mainly conservative. It is alright to get Rohene Ward to choreograph an "exhibition" number but for "competition" material they need to go back to real 'Ice Dance' choreographers/teachers. Maddie/Evan's 2014 Paso Doble and last year's Rach FD were choreographed by Antonio Najarro (famous Spanish dancer/teacher).

Next year's SD is going to be "Rhumba", they need to go to a real Latin Dance choreographer/teacher (a lot of intricacies in a real Rhumba).
Click to expand...

IIRC, Najarro did choreograph Madi/Evan's Paso Doble SD, but it was Igor who choreographed the Rach FD. I think Najarro choreographed the tango FD that had to be scrapped and replaced by Rach.

I loved the Paso Doble SD and think Najarro is very talented, but he wouldn't be my choice of choreographer for Madi and Evan. Najarro's work sometimes doesn't translate well to the ice. An example is the Frida program Najarro created for Ruslena, which wasn't well received. Frida would have been a great dance for the stage, but all the stops and starts and posing came off as too static on the ice.

I am a Rohene fan and love most of his choreography. He seems to be well versed in the history of blues dance styles and a stickler for getting the details right. I agree that the cultural background of some skating officials and fans might make it more difficult for them to appreciate choreography based on traditional African-American art forms. Remember the Juke program Rohene choreographed for Jason Brown? It included a signature move from 1920s-1930s blues dance. Some posters on this forum looked at this movement and thought Jason was doing the "sprinkler". LOL.

One of my favorite C/B programs is the Beyonce exhibition piece. This is more in a modern dance style and I think that idiom is where Rohene does his best work. I wish Rohene would develop this piece for next year's FD. A lot would need to be changed; they would need to find different music and, of course, there are many moves in an exhibition piece that wouldn't be allowed in a competition program. Still, there is a good base to start from in the the Beyonce program and I think it's style and tone are a great fit for Madi and Evan.

Also totally agree that Madi/Evan need to work with a good Latin Dance teacher for next season's Rhumba. But I'm sure they know that. :)
 
humbaba said:
IIRC, Najarro did choreograph Madi/Evan's Paso Doble SD, but it was Igor who choreographed the Rach FD. I think Najarro choreographed the tango FD that had to be scrapped and replaced by Rach.
Click to expand...
Actually, their Rach FD was first choreographed by Najarro (performed in Nebelhorn) but Igor made changes to improve the look and feel of the program so by the time it was the World's, it became totally Igor's.

I loved the Paso Doble SD and think Najarro is very talented, but he wouldn't be my choice of choreographer for Madi and Evan. Najarro's work sometimes doesn't translate well to the ice. An example is the Frida program Najarro created for Ruslena, which wasn't well received. Frida would have been a great dance for the stage, but all the stops and starts and posing came off as too static on the ice.
Click to expand...
Najarro choreographed this like he would a dance. Unfortunately, it did not work with the medium where ice dance elements are paramount and correct ice-skating technique reign supreme. Frida is a great material for a contemporary dance on stage not on ice.


I am a Rohene fan and love most of his choreography. He seems to be well versed in the history of blues dance styles and a stickler for getting the details right. I agree that the cultural background of some skating officials and fans might make it more difficult for them to appreciate choreography based on traditional African-American art forms. Remember the Juke program Rohene choreographed for Jason Brown? It included a signature move from 1920s-1930s blues dance. Some posters on this forum looked at this movement and thought Jason was doing the "sprinkler". LOL.

One of my favorite C/B programs is the Beyonce exhibition piece. This is more in a modern dance style and I think that idiom is where Rohene does his best work. I wish Rohene would develop this piece for next year's FD. A lot would need to be changed; they would need to find different music and, of course, there are many moves in an exhibition piece that wouldn't be allowed in a competition program. Still, there is a good base to start from in the the Beyonce program and I think it's style and tone are a great fit for Madi and Evan.

Also totally agree that Madi/Evan need to work with a good Latin Dance teacher for next season's Rhumba. But I'm sure they know that. :)
Click to expand...

Rohene is a great talented choreographer but, I think, he needs more exposure to ice-dancing to become really effective. He is so edgy, trendy, too avant-garde and with our present set of ice-skating judges, I think his style would be a little hard to embrace. I like his work with Jason Brown and Mariah Bell but single skating is so different from Ice-dancing where special footwork style adapted to ice-dancing are unique to the discipline. Take Ice-dancing Rhumba, it has no semblance to ballroom Rhumba at all. Ice-dancing Rumba tends to incorporate some of the dance movements but it's still, materially, different. As to dance teachers, I think, Mark Ballas would be a good one to tap as he studied skating when he choreographed for Evan Lysacek. Besides, he is an excellent Latin Ballroom Dancer/Choreographer.
 
I think the judges are embracing Rohene's work. The scores for the SD were there in the first half of the season. Madi and Evan love working with Rohene, and it shows in how they've embraced the SD choreography and look like they're having the time of their life performing it. They need to be able to love what they're doing in order to be authentic on the ice, so if working with Rohene inspires them, then they should continue their partnership with him.
 
I like Rohene's work with C/B ... just wondering about styles that are contrary to the norm. I particularly like what he did with their SD but then where dance is concerned I'm more of a 'purist'. Like Shib's SD - beautifully crafted but hip hop? Well, hip hop has gone through a lot of evolution, so yes, in a way it is. V/M's, in terms of attitude and expression, is hip hop but the one that's closer to the original dance concept is C/B's, and thanks to Rohene for that. For C/B, I think, they should stay away from the somewhat edgy and modernistic in the next season _ the upcoming Olympic year and stick to what is 'tried and true' for their own sakes. They're great skaters ... great storytellers ... they should use those skills to their advantage.
 
Last edited:
I know I am late to the party,

but I watched the nationals now and I felt that Madi and Evan, stepped up their game even more in the FD. It looked not only smoother, but also much more emotional and less "rushed", if that makes any sense? They have more breathing space in there now, at least what I can tell from the video I saw, which might not always resemble the experience of those at the venue. I would have given them the victory, no offence to Maia and Alex ;)
 
Agree with your observation, but I am afraid, if the traditional scoring 'mindset' continues, they'll miss the world podium. I think, it will be either V/M or P/C for the Gold and the Shibs are likely to get either the silver or bronze.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GoneWithTheWind
Dania Mouaden & Theo Bigot
Replies
4
Views
743
peepsquick
P
synesthesia
THE DESTINY | July 31 - Aug 2, 2026
Replies
7
Views
1K
cocteautwin
cocteautwin
GoneWithTheWind
Layla Veillon & Alexander Brandys
Replies
1
Views
734
dorispulaski
dorispulaski
GoneWithTheWind
Hana Maria Aboian & Daniil Veselukhin
Replies
1
Views
742
dorispulaski
dorispulaski
S
Toast to Milan
Replies
12
Views
1K
NanaPat
N
Back
Top