Mao Asada news

[bekalc]

Then there was the next season - when Mao was eligible for Worlds and showed she was not quite ready for the pressure of the big stage. When I hear how Mao or Yuna could have won the OGM in Torino I look to what they did the next season when they were eligible and under pressure. They both came up short to Miki, the 16th place finisher from Torino.

Yu-na was injured at that worlds and ran out of steam, she wasn't that injured while Torino was going on. Besides Kim and Asada would have been underdogs in Torino, with a lot less pressure on them (see how Mirai handled the Olympics and then handled worlds when she actually had some real expectations). I think one of Kim/Asada would have podiumed. I mean look how Sasha and Irina competed, hardly great. And if Arakawa had to deal with Mao and Yu-na being there, she might have actually had to go for harder stuff.

 

[prettykeys]

Really? I never got that impression. How so?

I don't know if Mirai at the moment is the best female spinner in the world, but she does seem to be the best among the top contenders (Mirai outspins YuNa, Mao, Joannie, Laura, Rachel, etc.)

Mirai has a spark and a warmth to her skating that Mao lacks. If she is able to increase her level of maturity this season, she will be seen as equal to Mao. And if she continues to grow in confidence, as Yu-Na Kim did, she will pull ahead of Mao just like Yu-Na did. I really hope Mao has an artistic renaissance of her own. She's incredibly talented.

Mirai has a warm spark to her that's unique, but I'd say Mao has a spark of her own. Same with YuNa. Unless Mirai starts pulling out some technical big guns (something like a clean 7-triple LP with a 3-3), I don't know if all the confidence and maturity in the world will make her viewed as equal to Mao in the eye of judges. YuNa got away with 6-triple LPs on the basis of her consistent and high quality 3-3 combo (and decent other triples.) I realize you have your own internal grading system, but we've seen time and again how often judges disagree with you and I think at least in this aspect it will be no different. At baseline, Mao's artistic ability remains impressive; if Sato is able to inspire her further growth, that would be very exciting.

I have to agree with beka - if Elizaveta and Adelina (and the other Russian girls) continue on their amazing junior trajectory, it will likely be one of them contending with Mao in Sochi.

 

[janetfan]

Yu-na was injured at that worlds and ran out of steam, she wasn't that injured while Torino was going on. Besides Kim and Asada would have been underdogs in Torino, with a lot less pressure on them (see how Mirai handled the Olympics and then handled worlds when she actually had some real expectations). I think one of Kim/Asada would have podiumed. I mean look how Sasha and Irina competed, hardly great. And if Arakawa had to deal with Mao and Yu-na being there, she might have actually had to go for harder stuff.

All good "what ifs" and I can agree with the possibilties. Some think Mirai ran out of steam at her first Worlds too.
Who picked Kimmie to win '06 Worlds?
But that's what happened.......

 

[prettykeys]

If I were a betting lady, I would have definitely expected Asada to be one of the podium finishers in Torino 2006. I'll even let the other gals have another chance and re-do their Olympic performances.

 

[janetfan]

All of these "what ifs" is part of what makes skating interesting.
If Mao had been eligible the whole year for the '06 Olympics she might have been a different skater by the end of the season.
Could she have dealt with the pressure all season long which also gets worse as February approaches?

We will never know. What we do know is that Mao seems to have had a terrible time dealing with the Olympic pressure from this season. I think we saw it effect Yuna as well at SA and even the GPF where she was not at her best.

It is difficult to say and I can only go on what I saw from Mao this season. I can't decide as easily on something that never happened.

 

[prettykeys]

All of these "what ifs" is part of what makes skating interesting.
If Mao had been eligible the whole year for the '06 Olympics she might have been a different skater by the end of the season.
Could she have dealt with the pressure all season long which also gets worse as February approaches?

Likely, yes. And she is a skater who tends to finish strong in a season.

What we do know is that Mao seems to have had a terrible time dealing with the Olympic pressure from this season.

No, we don't know that. All we know is that Mao nailed her SP and three 3Axels. I tend to think that YuNa's staggering score in the LP unnerved Mao in the LP more than the venue--and I don't think anyone in 2006 would have gotten anywhere close to that.

I think we saw it effect Yuna as well at SA and even the GPF where she was not at her best.

Wait, we saw what in effect? YuNa's Olympic nerves?

 

[janetfan]

Wait, we saw what in effect? YuNa's Olympic nerves?

Yes, I think we saw the pressure of the season effect Yuna. She actually said so herself after SA - although if I recall I think she blamed the pressure of beating her own records each time she skated.

Actually, the tears we saw from Yuna after she finished her LP in Vancouver shows the pressure she felt. I did not say Yuna succumbed to Olympic pressure - only that she felt it and probably all season long.

 

[seniorita]

maybe she had nerves this season, but 4cc, Olys and Worlds she skated great! Besides in 2006 she would have no big pressure like Miki or Shizuka had and not even near the presure Sasha and Irina had, as a skaters coming from juniors, both yuna and mao would have been the underdogs and could have won in Torino like Tara or Sarah did (not that Tara was the underdog in 1998, just comparing the ages), I dont know though their pcs how they could have been...

 

[prettykeys]

Yes, I think we saw the pressure of the season effect Yuna. She actually said so herself after SA - although if I recall I think she blamed the pressure of beating her own records each time she skated.

I don't think so. Apologies for de-railing this thread a bit (I will tie it back to Mao shortly), but YuNa mentioned the pressure of having to beat her own records (i.e. expectations from fans) plus the unexpected and uncharacteristic downgrade on her 3-3 in the SP at Skate America. Watching with my own eyes, that was a very questionable call and is sure to throw off one's confidence - and that would neatly explain why YuNa flubbed the LP. The GPF was a continuation of that. I don't expect anyone to consider Olympic pressure to be less than Skate America and Grand Prix Final. If she felt it "all season long", as you say, I am unsure why it wasn't most acutely felt at the actual Olympics.

Mao also seemed to have felt some unforeseen pressure after 2006. Not only was YuNa emerging to be a fairly consistent contender and Miki rebounding, but jumps and rotations were being scrutinized more closely. After having been told in her younger years that she was pretty darn good, her confidence in her technical ability probably took something of a hit.

I am almost certain that 15-year old Torino Mao would have given us a far more vivid and impressive event than what we got (excepting Sasha's fiery SP.)

 

[janetfan]

maybe she had nerves this season, but 4cc, Olys and Worlds she skated great! Besides in 2006 she would have no big pressure like Miki or Shizuka had and not even near the presure Sasha and Irina had, as a skaters coming from juniors, both yuna and mao would have been the underdogs and could have won in Torino like Tara or Sarah did (not that Tara was the underdog in 1998, just comparing the ages), I dont know though their pcs how they could have been...

If Mao had been eligible all season long for the '06 Olympics I think she would have been under tremendous pressure in Torino. She would have been a favorite and not some unknown kid.

But like I said I don't know how she would have dealt with it in '06. I think she should have won '07 Worlds but the pressure got to her. I think the Olympic pressure from this season effected her season as well. She came back and skated very well after her SP at 4CC which was not her best.

But this is all speculation. What I have seen is that Mao is under a ton of pressure. Yuna is under maybe even more pressure.
They feel it and it is admirable, maybe even mystifying how well they both dealt with it in Vancouver.

Some suggested Mirai had no pressure in Vancouver. How silly. She was practically on home ice, her coach believed she could medal with a little help and I think Mirai handled herself very well in Vancouver.

 

[bekalc]

All good "what ifs" and I can agree with the possibilties. Some think Mirai ran out of steam at her first Worlds too.
Who picked Kimmie to win '06 Worlds?
But that's what happened.......

If I recall Mirai's free skate didn't start out so well. In contrast Yu-na began her free skate nailing her 3flip/3toe and her other jumps until she got to the last half of her program. Yu-na's back injury was pretty high profile because she had to drop out of several important competitions.

 

[janetfan]

I don't think so. Apologies for de-railing this thread a bit (I will tie it back to Mao shortly), but YuNa mentioned the pressure of having to beat her own records (i.e. expectations from fans) plus the unexpected and uncharacteristic downgrade on her 3-3 in the SP at Skate America. Watching with my own eyes, that was a very questionable call and is sure to throw off one's confidence - and that would neatly explain why YuNa flubbed the LP. The GPF was a continuation of that. I don't expect anyone to consider Olympic pressure to be less than Skate America and Grand Prix Final. If she felt it "all season long", as you say, I am unsure why it wasn't most acutely felt at the actual Olympics.
Mao also seemed to have felt some unforeseen pressure after 2006. Not only was YuNa emerging to be a fairly consistent contender and Miki rebounding, but jumps and rotations were being scrutinized more closely. After having been told in her younger years that she was pretty darn good, her confidence in her technical ability probably took something of a hit.

I am almost certain that 15-year old Torino Mao would have given us a far more vivid and impressive event than what we got (excepting Sasha's fiery SP.)

Two words - "Brian Orser."
whatever Yuna fans might think of him now he did his job preparing Yuna for the Olympics.

I still go back to her reaction right after she finished her LP. I have seen just about every Yuna LP going back to '07 Worlds. I never saw her react that way. She even commented that she didn't know why she started crying.

My guess was that it was a release of unbeliveable pressure that she had been holding in throughout the Olympic season.

 

[Mathman]

All of these "what ifs" is part of what makes skating interesting....

If the question is, was the young Mao an "infant phenomenon," we don't have to go with "what ifs." What actually happened was, at age fourteen Mao won the World Junior Championship, and at age fifteen she won Eric Bompard, finished second at Cup of China, and won the senior Grand Prix Final. At age sixteen she won the silver medal at senior Worlds, and at age 17 she won the World championship.

None of the current crop of U.S. ladies has done anything remotely comparable, at any age.

 

[bekalc]

If the question is, was the young Mao an "infant phenomenon," we don't have to go with "what ifs." What actually happened was, at age fourteen Mao won the World Junior Championship, and at age fifteen she won Eric Bompard, finished second at Cup of China, and won the senior Grand Prix Final. At age sixteen she won the silver medal at senior Worlds, and at age 17 she won the World championship.

None of the current crop of U.S. ladies has done anything remotely comparable, at any age.

Amen. I can't believe anyone would suggest Mirai was better at 14, maybe Mirai had a bit more mature programs, but frankly Nagasu was lucky she got credit for her jumps at that Nationals, considering how her jumps were treated at the international events that year.

Mirai IS incredibly talented though and she just might get some things in her belt technically to make her competitive with Kim and Asada.

 

[miki88]

I definitely think the Torino Olympics would have much more interesting than the snoozefest it was if Mao had been allowed to go. Four years ago, she was full of confidence and spark. She skated without any sense of fear. And with the inconsistency of both Sasha and Shizuka and the pressure on reigning champ Irina, I firmly believe Mao would have had a great chance at the gold.

 

[prettykeys]

Two words - "Brian Orser."
whatever Yuna fans might think of him now he did his job preparing Yuna for the Olympics.

Oh.

It's too bad Orser was absent/slacking at SA and GPF 2009.

 

[janetfan]

Oh.

It's too bad Orser was absent/slacking at SA and GPF 2009.

Nobody is perfect - but Brian always knew all that mattered was Yuna's training after the GPF leading into the Olympics. I give Yuna all credit for such a fantastic Olympics but it seems shortsighted not to think somebody had prepared her to skate that way.

 

[FlattFan]

In 2006, Mao would be TOO young to feel the pressure. China like their Gymnasts young for a reason. Mao had what it take to get a silver. Her PCS were quite good for a 15yo. Having said that, I don't think they would place her over Shizuka. Shizuka LP was absolutely stunning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Nqqm23xBY

She did a triple triple during warm up, just a few mins before she skated. She was quite consistent that whole week. I think she would/could bring it had she felt threatened.

 

[janetfan]

If the question is, was the young Mao an "infant phenomenon," we don't have to go with "what ifs." What actually happened was, at age fourteen Mao won the World Junior Championship, and at age fifteen she won Eric Bompard, finished second at Cup of China, and won the senior Grand Prix Final. At age sixteen she won the silver medal at senior Worlds, and at age 17 she won the World championship.

None of the current crop of U.S. ladies has done anything remotely comparable, at any age.

No, it was never the question - but your answer was good anyway

It did come up about Mirai having a little more "spark" or whatever than Mao at 14 and then I commented that Mao's exhibition programs seem better than her comp programs.

No one ever said what Beka said - that Mirai was a better skater at 14 than Mao.

 

[rtureck]

Really?! I never knew Michelle worked on her spirals with the intent of beating Nicole. Where did you hear that from?

Dick Button, you know how he loves spirals. MK made tremendous improvement on her spirals b/w 13 y/o and 14 y/o. Dick Button said MK knew she had to improve in order to beat Nicole when he was commentating on one of her programs.

I also noticed Mao's spin seemed slow. They were pretty fast during her junior days so I'm guessing the way her body matured had something to do with it. Judging from recent clips the speed in her spins have gotten better.

Mao always have pretty positions, IMO she needs some more speed.

Anyway back to improving skills with a specific skater/competitor in mind, it is nothing new not unique to MK improving her spirals. Many ppl think Todd worked hard on his spins to beat Bowman. Maybe I am alone in hoping Mao will improve on her spins to beat Nagasu in that department. My wish is for Mao to work with Lucindah, and learn Ruh's style. Nagasu, NNN, SAsha are all examples of great spinners with very similar style. Lucindah's spinning style is more lyric.

I like Mirai the best among the current US ladies, she is probably my #4 all time favorite lady skater (post figures era), but when I try to think of music that I would like her to skate to, I usually come up empty. I look forward to the Geisha program. For Mao, I can think of many pieces of music, from Alkan to Mozart to Mahler to Isang Yun.